Indoor Bud Beast LED Test

[tripaholic88]

Try and water at 5.5 if your pH is rising that fast have to be honest never ever checked the run off pH in all the time I've grown not opening that can of worms [emoji16]vladders was having problems with soil he's flying now with coco and autopots

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yeah i was thinking of "playing the swing" as i call it and feeding lower like you said and monitor the pH swing and see how big it is and if it stays in the proper range. i will do this for the current ones under the bud beast but i hope to have this figured out before the babies/replacements go under the light because my morale as a grower is dwindling. the only thing keeping me going is that ive grown out and AVERAGED 120 gram plants out of 8 plant runs in coco when i 1st started growing and using it. so its not that i dont know how to grow its that there is an unseen Variable at play very frustrating

i pulled this from another growers same problems and this was recommended:
Adjust the PH of the plain water. Wait 12 hours letting the solution bubble/mix. Then add your nutrients. (You can start feeding this to the plants at this point, if you cant wait). 12 hours after adding the nutrients check PH and adjust one more time if needed. Adjust in small steps. My 40 gallon ressy's only takes about 25ml of ph adjuster each to stabilize it. The key is to allow the ph buffers to do their job before you add in more.

There are a couple factors that cause your PH to drift. The most common is running the nute solution too strong or too weak. If it's too strong, your PH drops. If it's too weak the PH rises. You have to find the balance point. If you find that the formula above is say, a little strong, and say you have a 20 gallon ressy, mix the nutes for 18 gallons. If it's a little weak, mix it for 22 gallons. You follow?

The other common mistake is mixing your nutrient solution and trying to adjust the PH right away. You have to allow time for the ph buffers in the nutrient solution to do their job. Mix the nutes up, and bubble or circulate for 12 hours before even looking at your PH. You will find the PH to be almost right on target.
I use little or no ph adjusters. (Except during flush).Before I got my RO unit I used tap water, with a starting PPM of 300-400 and a starting PH of 7.4-9.0 (Thats crazy you say! The water is too hard, you will never get stable PH and you will have too much Ca, causing a lockout of Mg!) Bollocks I say.
Every week, on Friday I drain the ressy and fill with plain water. I let that run overnight giving the plants a little flush. This also allows the chlorine and ammonia to evap. On Saturday morning, I mix the nutes into the ressy. I DO NOT adjust ph at this time. Let that run as is overnight. On Sunday morning, I check ph and adjust if needed. Usually don't have to.
Doing things this way has saved me from constant PH drifts, and using about 150 ml of ph down every ressy change, and a little here and there throughout the week to keep it in the desired range. Now, the most I ever have to use is about 25 ml.if any at all. (I have a 40 gallon ressy btw) My Ph stays at a constant 5.5-5.8. My nutrient temps maintain between 68-73

 

[tripaholic88]

i also found this.. dont know if it holds any truth
If you grow hydrological on coco it is quite easy to maintain the correct pH-value by means of the following formula:
PH of the new nutrient solution = 2 x [5.8 – (½ pH drain water)] so for me it would be 2x(5.8-3.2) which gives me a new nutrient feed of 5.2
wonder if i fed that low if it would swing to the correct pH range in the pots?

*edit so i just fed the 1 tangie in the square pot a feed from the rez at 5.2 lets see how that works for her( its 5.8 in the rez)

 

[tripaholic88]

also @Waira i answered your questions a cpl posts back so check them answers out... but after re-reading what you typed about checking/calibrating the ph pen with BOTH 4.0 and 7.0 calibration solutions...
i was only calibrating with the 7.0 and not the 4.0 and when i went to use the 4.0 solution my pen was reading 4.4 so i went to turn the dial to 4.0 and then re-checked the 7.0 and it read 6.6 so apparently this piece of crap Yellow pH meter is broke? whats your take on this? when i feed at "5.8" my a8 does say 6.2-6.3 ish... that is a .4 difference lol BUT it doesn't account for the test I did that had 1 with the coco and perlite and the new pure coco. I'm stumped...

 

[blue]

Hey Trip,

I've had a read of your posts and the spot on replies from people and it seems like you're doing it all right ... so with all the right steps being taken, this is kinda pointing at perhaps some equipment letting you down.

piece of crap Yellow pH meter is broke?

The only yellow ones i've seen have been a peice of crap lol - does it have one of those screw adjuster things to calibtrate?
I'd be looking at the meter!

One last thing (you may have said and i've overlooked, but just a thought) ... are you PHing after ALL of your nutes .. not PHing the water, then adding calmag or anything? - I'm sure you are, but best to check.

If you're looking for an affordable PH meter that's reliable - i've always used an "Essentials" meter - there not bluelabs pricey (not as good i doubt) but i've used them (and a nooby friend) with success.
I even got my newb friend to only use CannaA&B Rhizotonic and PH at 5.8 for the whole grow and he pulled a very nice harvest with only the odd calmag def (which was late enough on not to care).

I don't think i can add to Waira and others input - I'm also quite relaxed about most defs unless the plant really looks terrible ... then i'd probably put plenty of water at 5.8 though the pot with a lower feed of A&B and Rhizotonic.

Hope it helps and the problem gets sorted!

 

[Wile e Peyote]

Trip just a thought do they add fluoride to your water supply?

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[tripaholic88]

The only yellow ones i've seen have been a peice of crap lol - does it have one of those screw adjuster things to calibtrate?
I'd be looking at the meter!

Yeah it does and when I calibrate it to 7.0 them to the 4.0 it's saying the 4.0 is 4.4 so I adjust it down to 4.0 and go back to the 7.0 to check and it says 6.6 so I think the meter is fried, it's only like 1.5 months old... I got 2 ph pens coming tomorrow to verify...

One last thing (you may have said and i've overlooked, but just a thought) ... are you PHing after ALL of your nutes .. not PHing the water, then adding calmag or anything? - I'm sure you are, but best to check.

I always have did it that way yes starting with Calmag then Micro and go down the line... i jist did that one side by side experiment with pH before nures and after.
Thanks for your help blue, it's greatly appreciated

Trip just a thought do they add fluoride to your water supply?

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I'm pretty sure wile.. bastards are poisoning us daily with that junk

 

[Wile e Peyote]

Yeah it does and when I calibrate it to 7.0 them to the 4.0 it's saying the 4.0 is 4.4 so I adjust it down to 4.0 and go back to the 7.0 to check and it says 6.6 so I think the meter is fried, it's only like 1.5 months old... I got 2 ph pens coming tomorrow to verify...
I always have did it that way yes starting with Calmag then Micro and go down the line... i jist did that one side by side experiment with pH before nures and after.
Thanks for your help blue, it's greatly appreciated

I'm pretty sure wile.. bastards are poisoning us daily with that junk

Could be effecting your roots also if they use Chloromine instead of chlorine takes a lot longer to evape off if it does

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[tripaholic88]

Could be effecting your roots also if they use Chloromine instead of chlorine takes a lot longer to evape off if it does

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i re-potted all the mephisto babies before they rooted into the good pH holding pure coco so lets hope this new bag is ok. seems good so far.
ive never grew in pure coco before always had perlite due to me always wanting to water them and to get alot of feeds per day in flower to really bulk up the buds.(im a hands on guy lol)

 

[tripaholic88]

ok guys so heres a Pic Update after all the testing madness yesterday. Lets start with a group shot under the Cultivate Tech Bud Beast
thats the big tote of Canna Coco that i dont know what to do with due to the pH swings in it. i was thinking of using it and just trying to play the swing as Wile suggested but i need o get a good grow 1st so this stuff is just drying out some providing my tent with some moisture which i took out tonight and stored in my closet until a later date.

new Mephisto Babies to replace the ones in the messed up coco
Forum Stomper 2 (FS2) and Strawberry Nuggets 2 (SN2) and Fantasmo Express in 1 gal smartpot behind them

Silton sisters doing fine on the 5.8pH feed (not playing the swing in my res) their substrate pH is 6.0 and 6.1
they show slight light stress on the upper leaves being yellow so i raised the light about 2"

pH 6.1
see how shes not praying as hard as her sister @Wile e Peyote ? once it gets to 6.2 and up they start drooping but no deficiencies
sorry for it being sideways

and the Tangie i fed Via that Mathematical equation and Damnit it actually worked and the pH in the substrate is 5.9. i fed her at 5.2
equation was this:
PH of the new nutrient solution = 2 x [5.8 – (½ pH drain water)]
so for me it was be 2x(5.8-3.2) which gives me a new nutrient feed of 5.2
And holy shit it worked @Waira so i fed the other one thats pictured the same feed this morning and they are both looking well my camera dies do i couldnt take a pic of the other tangie
looking good for being fed 2L and getting 500mls or so runoff. figured she would be more droopy but guess the accurate pH is helping that

​

 

[Waira]

:smoking: Roger that on the pH meters and A8 unit Trip,.. pardon the remedials, just habit beat into me from the Infirmary! ....

>> yeah, the whole point (and $) of loose coco is r-t-u convenience,... but funky batches happen! Seems a little while back, there was a run of folks getting shwaggy Promix... prob's cleared when they got bales from different lot #'s... I don't know for absolute sure, but K+ solutions (or at least Potassium silicate) seem to have alkalizing effects,.. and we know coco has lots of native K,.. if not well CEC buffered by the maker, it's possible that K leaching from poorly buffered coco is behind this pH rising,... not sure what the kelp stuff does,... and your water is excellent, practically like RO/Di,... of course, this low mineral carbonate content does mean it's more prone to pH shifts,... adding the Ca-Mg helps this though!
... bubbling the water only, or the nute solution? Either way, it's not involved with this problem,... if anything, bubbling will help saturate the CO2 in the solution, which in turn will form weak acidity (carbonic adic),... the Ca-Mg is neutralizing that easily though.... (what brand Ca-Mg? N-amount? - tells us how much is nitrate based and carbonate based)....** oh, got it! Botanicare is good stuff, loaded with other goodies,... A note about bubbling: there's only so much O2 you can get in there at one's T and atmospheric pressure, and it's near that already,... unless you cool the water and/or up atm. pressure, no more gets in past saturation limit for that T and PSI,... recall, more gases can dissolve in cooler solutions, and visa-versa....

yes the initial runoff was that and i ran some more throught it and 2nd catch got like 600ppm and 6.5 and 3rd time(all done within 15 mins of each other) it was 350 and 6.6 which is when i ignored runoff pH because runoff pH is not accurate in coco so i rely on my A8.

--- OK, this perks my ears up,.. you'll have to ask other coco growers, and Canna Coco about what to expect for run-off ppm's right out of the bag, but I strongly suspect it shouldn't be that high at all,... makes me think that it wasn't rinsed well enough by them,... see how fast it went down after some flushing! -how much did you put through? - a note I read about coco flushing: never just pure water as you know,.. use RO/Di (or low ppm) water, with 150ppm Ca-Mg plus 150ppm nutes, pH 6.0; pour through until pH/ppm's are at or near input values,.. this preserves the CEC, while purging the excess crap,....

.. so i always used to pH AFTER adding nutes but i seen somewhere someone had a similar problem and they recommended pHing down the water 1st before adding nutes. now when i add my nutes 1st i get a pH of 6.4 usually and i need to pH it down to 5.8 but then after sitting for say 12 hrs the ph will rise back up to say 6.2 and needs pH back down again.
so what i did was pH the water down 1st from 7.6 then add nutes and it came out to 5.6 so i just added some rhizotonic to get me to 5.7-5.8 and it held there or it may have raised by like .1 which is alot better than my previous method. im gonna do this test again i think so i can have a definitive answer to the test.

... From what I've seen, regardless of the grow method, when prep'ing nute solutions, Ca-Mg goes in first, then nutes (Ca-Mg will help buffer there), then pH adjust,... now nothing happens instantly, a little time is needed for reaction to occur in pH buffering,... this is why you see the solution itself rising in pH afterwards,... ... remember with RO/Di/low ppm water, there's little to no carbonates in there to buffer, so even small inputs will cause large swings in pH,... I assume it took tiny amounts to adjust it down! Hell, even using 7.6/180ppm tap water, I could pH adjust 2 gal with about 1/4 tsp of citric acid!

also @Waira i answered your questions a cpl posts back so check them answers out... but after re-reading what you typed about checking/calibrating the ph pen with BOTH 4.0 and 7.0 calibration solutions...
i was only calibrating with the 7.0 and not the 4.0 and when i went to use the 4.0 solution my pen was reading 4.4 so i went to turn the dial to 4.0 and then re-checked the 7.0 and it read 6.6 so apparently this piece of crap Yellow pH meter is broke? whats your take on this? when i feed at "5.8" my a8 does say 6.2-6.3 ish... that is a .4 difference lol BUT it doesn't account for the test I did that had 1 with the coco and perlite and the new pure coco. I'm stumped...

>> uhhh, what brand pH meter? I'm not familiar with some of them, like the cheapo-units-- if this is one of them,... two calibration points is best for good meters, but shouldn't jump back and forth like that, mirroring your adjustments at each point..? Mine hasn't done this, it's a middle level one, so I don't know what to make of it other then it's a design flaw in economy models,... Since pH is logarithmic scale, tenths are in fact big jumps! *highlighted*-- Trip, I'm confused here, how is your meter showing 5.8 solution pH, and the pH probe saying 6.2-3?... As it reads, it implies you're submerging the A8 into liquids..?