Grow Mediums Barney’s Farm LSD-25 (photo) in 8.5L Autopots w/coco, TF nutrients, and AutoCobs

... :jointman:... yes and no IMO, that's why I echoed "guideline" like some of the authors did- :thumbsup:,... Air movement, and a host of other things that can fudge things some,.. but I don't think that 2C chart is at all wrong for general T & RH% during bloom, during light hours (!- not at night, though transpiration is much slowed then); that yellow zone looks OK to me, barring something like a landrace Hashplant or something that notorious for weak mold resistance,..

vpd_2degree.gif
This chart much different then the one I use... much-much different... like night & day type of different... I will show ya mine and you'll see why I only use vpd up until a certain time... But I know many growers who also do same way as me, after a certain point all the vpd stuff goes out the window... Really IMO I think the vpd is needed much more during the veg cycle... I don't seem to run into issues with my plants not following vpd chart after flowering starts...I like to run much lower humidity in flower, when I get down to final week of flower I bring humidity down next to nothing... I feel that does two things, covers plant in tricomes & protects the plant..well for me it does...
 
... :jointman:... yes and no IMO, that's why I echoed "guideline" like some of the authors did- :thumbsup:,... Air movement, and a host of other things that can fudge things some,.. but I don't think that 2C chart is at all wrong for general T & RH% during bloom, during light hours (!- not at night, though transpiration is much slowed then); that yellow zone looks OK to me, barring something like a landrace Hashplant or something that notorious for weak mold resistance,..

vpd_2degree.gif
Okay now here is chart I use, notice my curves give little more flexibility then the other chart is showing.... check out 22c/71.6f & 60% on both charts and see on my chart you'd be in green still on your chart it's showing things are off...I'm just pointing that one but it's the same the whole way down chart.
VPD chart.jpg
 
...yours is the leaf temp 1C cooler than air temp, the one I posted is the 2C cooler graph,... it's skewed and shifted a bit, but I wouldn't say it's night and day different,.... on 1C graph, 22C and 60%, VPD is 0.9, in the green zone, which is for late veg early flower,... late flower is in the yellow zone, where reduced RH% helps pull the nutes a little faster which helps with the high demand, and also with less likely mold promotion,... So agreed, if the VPD during late bloom is in the green zone, you're off the mark, along with plain common sense about RH% during bloom,...
 
...yours is the leaf temp 1C cooler than air temp, the one I posted is the 2C cooler graph,... it's skewed and shifted a bit, but I wouldn't say it's night and day different,.... on 1C graph, 22C and 60%, VPD is 0.9, in the green zone, which is for late veg early flower,... late flower is in the yellow zone, where reduced RH% helps pull the nutes a little faster which helps with the high demand, and also with less likely mold promotion,... So agreed, if the VPD during late bloom is in the green zone, you're off the mark, along with plain common sense about RH% during bloom,...
I’m curious where in a small tent 4x4x5.5 you are supposed to say is the groom temperature?

I always have my temp probe at canopy level dead center and can’t see the leaf temp being that different. So do I use the chart with zero degrees difference? My exhaust fan temp probe is kept at canopy level at the back of the tent and is now set to a much more reasonable 70-75 range. Got the humidifier in the tent on the light switch and on low so it will only come on when lights are on. Will be monitoring over the next two days to make sure it’s not too much. Right now the weather here is switching massively, swinging 35f overnight back and forth over the next week rain and snow so the humidity/ temp of my basement is affected as well.
 
:smoking: Hemi' what's up mate?....ambient temp should be taken someplace away from close proximity to heat sources like lights,... not in the fans air stream, not at the top or bottom of the tent,.. someplace mid level-ish,..... The only way to get actual leaf surface temp is with an IR thermometer, but who's going to do that and run the calculations? :nono: (check out those sweet Pulse Nano units here, very cherry!)..... I don't know where to even find the other charts for leaf surface temps 3+ degrees cooler than ambient- :rofl:... but indeed, big differences between them would make for a muchly skewed chart,.. I'm not sure, but by that time under those conditions, other env. parameters would be so far off they'd need immediate correcting,... Leaf surface temp will be different mate, with all that evaporation going on, the cooling effect is significant! ..... :doh: wacky weather makes for some knuckle chewing worries no doubt! One can see why the high end grow gear with remote controls can be of big help when this is happening,.... * cough $$$ cough* :rofl:
 
:smoking: Hemi' what's up mate?....ambient temp should be taken someplace away from close proximity to heat sources like lights,... not in the fans air stream, not at the top or bottom of the tent,.. someplace mid level-ish,..... The only way to get actual leaf surface temp is with an IR thermometer, but who's going to do that and run the calculations? :nono: (check out those sweet Pulse Nano units here, very cherry!)..... I don't know where to even find the other charts for leaf surface temps 3+ degrees cooler than ambient- :rofl:... but indeed, big differences between them would make for a muchly skewed chart,.. I'm not sure, but by that time under those conditions, other env. parameters would be so far off they'd need immediate correcting,... Leaf surface temp will be different mate, with all that evaporation going on, the cooling effect is significant! ..... :doh: wacky weather makes for some knuckle chewing worries no doubt! One can see why the high end grow gear with remote controls can be of big help when this is happening,.... * cough $$$ cough* :rofl:
As my signature always says, Live, Grow, Learn and I have learned a lot already this grow. :doh:
Hopefully now that Im not trying to hit the temp extremes that I was, this grow can start to progress normally again. Damage is done, moving on. :smoking:
 
Boy you all making the case that I know something about somethings. Well that is just alright.
I have seen on all of my 3 grows that the leaves are very cool to the touch. SIDE BAR __ The best way to feel temp with a human hand is to use the back side of your hand. It has no callouses thus it is more accurate than your palm side of the hand __

I thought the rez might have been too cool, Not the case. Thanks @Waira

:smoking: Hemi' what's up mate?....ambient temp should be taken someplace away from close proximity to heat sources like lights,... not in the fans air stream, not at the top or bottom of the tent,.. someplace mid level-ish,..... The only way to get actual leaf surface temp is with an IR thermometer, but who's going to do that and run the calculations? :nono: (check out those sweet Pulse Nano units here, very cherry!)..... I don't know where to even find the other charts for leaf surface temps 3+ degrees cooler than ambient- :rofl:... but indeed, big differences between them would make for a muchly skewed chart,.. I'm not sure, but by that time under those conditions, other env. parameters would be so far off they'd need immediate correcting,... Leaf surface temp will be different mate, with all that evaporation going on, the cooling effect is significant! ..... :doh: wacky weather makes for some knuckle chewing worries no doubt! One can see why the high end grow gear with remote controls can be of big help when this is happening,.... * cough $$$ cough* :rofl:
 
:toke: OSP, how's it going brudda? .... Hemi' -- what's good? :smoking:

Okay, I think there's a cause and effect thing behind this,.. it's forcing a shitload of transpiration to happen, unhealthy levels, then it starts to shut down...
:greencheck: Meantime, getting that T down and the RH up is bottom line fix for sure, or all you'll do is chase your tail on this fixing symptoms shit and not the fixing potential the root cause,... you'll see some charts at that link, it's a bit confusing until you read the article and see the vid, then you'll get the gist of how once you're out of that proper VPD zone, things can start to go sideways,... reading the more complex charts is bit of a PITA, and not knowing the actual leaf surface temp is a big factor (there 1 and 2 degree C tables there, I'd use the 2C as a guideline), but the bigger picture is there, not so much the minutia,....

I always believe in the ounce of prevention rule unless it involves tequila, then it's a pint of prevention. But we're fortunate to have some fine members here like Waira that not only understand, but can verbalize these advanced techniques. That kind of stuff makes my head hurt !!! :dizzy:
For those not so blessed (like me), if you stick to the fundamentals of nute strength, pH, and environmental control, then most / all of these issues take care of themselves.
@HemiSync, we all promise ourselves we won't mess with more than one thing at a time, then we wait for ourselves to quit looking and do it anyway :muahaha: So you learned more faster, good job!!!

I only have one last question though. Does anyone have the conversion factor for translating "shitloads" to "shit-ton's"??? I hate those metric to SAE conversions....
 
:smoking: and learn well you do Hemi'! :d5: ... it's often overlooked, but the plants can tolerate a wide range of sub-optimal conditions, nutes, etc.,... it's just that we are trying to push the plants some (or a lot), and provide what they need to do this and make good yield and quality,... consider what they experience outside, which is where I grow mostly,... I cite @912GreenSkell as a adverse conditions grower of serious note here! He's in Canada, where any time, any place shite weather can happen,... wild swings in T, RH%, storms,... I marvel at what he produces, but it's a great case-in-point about tolerance,... Also, large plants definitely have a "mass effect" stability that tent grows can only dream of too,... :vibe: ... anyway, the whole point of the VPD thing is it's a factor in your troubles, as it is in many others,.. it's been a great dot-connector for me in Sick Bay, when diagnosis is difficult and at times contrary :wall: :haha:.... How are they looking mate, were you able to make some corrections, and has progression slowed at least?

>> @Nosias :toke:... for hydro, which I haven't done, I'd direct you to others who are more savvy than I! Sure, I know some stuff, out of sheer necessity in diagnostics, like for coco as well,... res' T is a biggie, upper 60's low 70's I think,... One thing i do see more and more of is light-caused stresses, not necessarily burning, but overload on the photon level, not so much outright T (like you get with HID),.. it can have a proximity effect, not hitting the whole plant like a pH lockout for example, but just those tops/ areas closest to it,... overdrive the PS machinery, and it breaks down basically,... any bad combinations of high light/heat, very low/high RH%, overly strong air movement, can cause transpiration stress,... if you want to learn more about VPD, check out the reference section in the Infirmary sticky section,...

>>> :pass:brudda Playah! Word, on all that- :pimp: :rofl:... I harp and I carp, and still, even some of my besties here, all better growers than me, still run into hiccups form time to time,... two of my fav's Rebel and Sniper are devout pH-thiests :crying:... they don't test doodly, and somehow get away with it most of the time,... then once in a while the shit-show tickets are issued, and I always ask " WTF is the pH?!" :phsoil: :haha::haha:

I only have one last question though. Does anyone have the conversion factor for translating "shitloads" to "shit-ton's"??? I hate those metric to SAE conversions....
:laughcry: let's ask Don Skelly :bow: -- he works with large quantities! :rofl:
 
How are they looking mate, were you able to make some corrections, and has progression slowed at least?
Working through a 12 hour dark cycle at 69f with 52% humidity, lights come on in another hour and we shall have a look. Going to try and keep the tent closed up, to keep the humidity from bottoming out in the 40s while the lights are on. Upper limit on my exhaust is set for 75f at the canopy and I have a cool must humidifier that I will be toying with on low just to see if I can get it up a few percent higher in the tent without going too far.

Will post some new pictures in the next few hours.
 
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