Indoor Nice Option's Garden of Intergalactic Delights

[NiceOption]

:smoking:...so, this is straight coco? I need to ask mate, if you have done your homework on this peculiar medium?... it cannot be treated like true soil, or even peat based soilless, there are a lot of do's and don't's, different from any other medium... Most of this relates to coco's odd CEC properties (cation exchange capacity), involving Ca and to a lesser extent, Mg,... Most folks run it with a hydro-like feed regime, fairly weak solution, feed often or even constantly (drip system), with 15-20%+ run-off each time,... measure pH and TDS/EC going in and especially going out to make sure the nute salt load doesn't build up..... coco breathes/drains much better than other such mediums, so overwatering is more generally more difficult,.... Point is, if you don't run coco properly, troubles will visit sooner or later!
Water is also very important, just like hydro... what's your source, pH and ppm's? if it's hard tap, you're already in trouble,... coco needs to run lower pH than soil, around 6.0, and is more bitchy about nute availability.... hard water drives pH up, screws with the CEC, and if you have to bomb the water/nute solution with pH adjusters, you're loading up the net ppm's with that crap too,....
Seeding trouble often comes down to the medium's pH, the water quality, if the medium is fresh or recycled, things like this... bad batches happen too.... coco needs a lengthy rinse and aging process initially by the makers, then extensive buffering treatment to purge the excess native K and Na content... This sets the proper CEC balance in good quality coco so it's ready to use...
That pot has some stuff that looks like hard water mineral deposits along the inside edges, was that there before you planted? Hard water and coco are not friends!
Color looks pale, but might be the lights (COB's?)... spotting, not sure actually,.. almost looks like an infection,... do you use inoculants? On occasion, certain types can get into the leaf by the stomata on lowest leaves, and cause this type of symptom,.... Defc. this early is unlikely, but coco is barren so feeds must start within a week or less;some folks use a very dilute feed before they plant, which is fine, even wise,....
.....in-pot pH is also critical, and in this case necessary to rule other things out,... water is tightly linked to this, so get me the info requested,....

THANK YOU @Waira !!!

So... it's straight coco, yes. It's Canna Professional. I don't like to mix anything else in at this point for fear of burning them. Whilst i wouldn't say I've done my homework, I have run eight plants in coco before so I sort of know what to expect.

They've only had straight PHd water at 6.4 so far (too high?) . No nutes, no cal-mag, nada. I usually wait a week (today) to feed a tiny amount of nutes and cal-mag.

Water is right outta the tap. Whilst I'm thinking that could be the issue, it's not been before.

The coco I used is what was left over from the last grow. It's been sealed properly and stored in the dark. Perhaps some pests/mould got in and I just got unlucky? I was thinking an infection could be the issue as I'm stumped as to what else could be the problem at this point. If so, I'd rather just pull her now and not risk exposing the other (absolutely fine) seedling to any potential nasties.

Colour looks fine tbh, it's a telos light, pretty white and bright, i think that's giving the impression it's paler than it is.

The deposits were indeed there before I planted. I gave it a good wash before planting but that wouldn't budge. I guess it could be a factor but as it wouldnt come off with a scrub i'd be surprised if it found it's way into the coco, but of course it's possible.

I'm afraid I have no way to measure ppms right now but I'll be ordering something this evening.

Thank you so much for your input. I guess I'll just keep at it and see how she gets along. Not much else I can do at this stage. If it's an infection I suppose it'll become obvious soon enough. I'm thinking that my inner city tap water could be the culprit from what you've said.

I'll pick up a fresh bag of coco tomorrow too to put my mind at ease.

Thanks again!

 

[Waira]

Ah! that water needs to be looked into for pH and ppm's, CaCO3 build-up is an issue in coco,.... recycled coco is risky too, if not "reprocessed".. rinsed in the right solution, run-off ppm/pH checked, so on,... you'll need to consult a coco master on that though.. The rinse solution I suspect is similar to the flushing solution if needed: RO/Di water (very low ppm) with 150ppm Ca-Mg, plus another 150ppm nutes, pH to 6.0, poured through until the run-off is at or near input values,... I figure the rinse would remove the 150ppm nutes,.... if the coco is/was really loaded by harvest, a flushing agent may be needed too? This helps knock loose strongly bound ions from the coco,... All this is about resetting the CEC buffering, (not pH in this case), the "give and take" part of the Ca/Mg releasing,... coco will hog Ca until it's CEC levels are sated,....
Color is good then? Likely it's a infection then,... not much to do there since it's internal, plant will likely seal it off, but watch for spreading to newer growth,... a neem oil foliar may help, or other safe fungucide....
If you have self-fill water machines around your area, that's a nice way to go, low ppm, inexpensive vs. store bought jugs!

 

[NiceOption]

Ah! that water needs to be looked into for pH and ppm's, CaCO3 build-up is an issue in coco,.... recycled coco is risky too, if not "reprocessed".. rinsed in the right solution, run-off ppm/pH checked, so on,... you'll need to consult a coco master on that though.. The rinse solution I suspect is similar to the flushing solution if needed: RO/Di water (very low ppm) with 150ppm Ca-Mg, plus another 150ppm nutes, pH to 6.0, poured through until the run-off is at or near input values,... I figure the rinse would remove the 150ppm nutes,.... if the coco is/was really loaded by harvest, a flushing agent may be needed too? This helps knock loose strongly bound ions from the coco,... All this is about resetting the CEC buffering, (not pH in this case), the "give and take" part of the Ca/Mg releasing,... coco will hog Ca until it's CEC levels are sated,....
Color is good then? Likely it's a infection then,... not much to do there since it's internal, plant will likely seal it off, but watch for spreading to newer growth,... a neem oil foliar may help, or other safe fungucide....
If you have self-fill water machines around your area, that's a nice way to go, low ppm, inexpensive vs. store bought jugs!

Sorry, to be clear the coco's not been used! It's just been stored for while. Shouldn't really be an issue but perhaps some contaminants found their way in.

So I guess it's either the water or an infection. Both somewhat fixable I suppose. I'll pick up some neem at the store tomorrow and grab something for the ppm from there and let you know how I get along. I suspect I'll have a jaw on the floor moment when I see the ppm.

Thanks again so much for your help. It's really appreciated. After having a few rather bountiful harvests under my belt I was feeling pretty confident but a set back at this stage has really given that a knock!

Onwards and upwards!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

The calcium build up on the pot will harbor pathogens even if soaked in pure bleach. This is a known problem in re-using clay or plastic pots. The calcium is just like a suit of armor around the microbes that will crack it open when it wants out. I personally would never reuse a pot or coco coir considering the value of the seeds and crop. I am not saying that is the problem here. I am just talking about general grow practice.

I think @Waira has covered everything I can think of at this point. I do think you want to run your PH just like hydro at 5.8. I don't use coco I am a rock wool guy now.

 

[NiceOption]

The calcium build up on the pot will harbor pathogens even if soaked in pure bleach. This is a known problem in re-using clay or plastic pots. The calcium is just like a suit of armor around the microbes that will crack it open when it wants out. I personally would never reuse a pot or coco coir considering the value of the seeds and crop. I am not saying that is the problem here. I am just talking about general grow practice.

I think @Waira has covered everything I can think of at this point. I do think you want to run your PH just like hydro at 5.8. I don't use coco I am a rock wool guy now.

Thanks for the insight. I'd always assumed that 6.0-6.5 was a safe level. I'll keep things a little lower and see how they go.

Thanks for stopping by! Much appreciated.

The girls have just been given their first low feed with some cal-mag of course so we'll see how they get along.

Also added a RAM humidifier to the tent to keep things in check. Not that it's the issue here, but it can't hurt. Things were in the low thirties which seems a bit dry at this stage.

 

[FullAuto245]

@AutoLowRyder shared this with me.

 

[NiceOption]

@AutoLowRyder shared this with me.View attachment 1040381

Well I never.

Turns out I've been aiming too high this whole time.

Kinda makes me excited. If I can pull what I was at the wrong PH, I look forward to seeing what can be done now I'm finally taking proper note of PH.

Thanks for sharing that!

 

[Mr Green Fingers]

Hey @NiceOption - I have almost the exact same thing going on with 1 of my seedlings although I think mine looks worse! Is there a heater near to that seedling? I am attributing that to mine at the moment as the other seedling on the other side of the tent away from the heater is fine, i have unplugged the heater now so will see what happens with the new growth.

 

[NiceOption]

Hey @NiceOption - I have almost the exact same thing going on with 1 of my seedlings although I think mine looks worse! Is there a heater near to that seedling? I am attributing that to mine at the moment as the other seedling on the other side of the tent away from the heater is fine, i have unplugged the heater now so will see what happens with the new growth.

There is a heater quite near. The temps just drop too much without it on. It could have something to do with it although they seem to have picked up a little bit now that I've lowered the PH.

They're looking a bit hungry now although they've had plenty.

All I can think is issues with the water, low temps and getting used to the new light. It doesn't chuck out anywhere near as much as much heat and I suspect it was a little higher than it should've been as I was worried about burning them in the first week or so. I've since lowered it and they look a bit happier. I guess the troubled leaves will just die off soon enough. Everything seems to be trundling along at a snails pace though.

 

[NiceOption]

DAY 10

NYCD looking better today (finally) growth is beginning to pick up a bit and the new growth seems unaffected.

A touch pale and yellow so I'll up the feed today. Maybe they're a little hungry from working to fight whatever was wrong with it, maybe they need a little more under LED (or is that nonsense??)

Glad to see her doing better.

No pic of Zkittles but nothing to report. She's basically fine but also slow to get going. Maybe even a day or so behind NYCD. Hopefully raising the feed helps them both get their groove on.