Lighting LEDs direct from china

[F.N.]

I will do a comparison with you anyday of the week show me best plant using your tech and I will show you one of mine hell I have hundreds of pictures on here and at least ten to fifteen grow journals let get the pics out and what they were grwon under. That post about efficiency and how I am just losing this and not gaining that. I went to that website man they want a small fortune for a light that is all I can say.http://www.promaxgrow.com/products/max-1200 If this is the right price you are better off to get involved in the DIY section in here bro. take care

 

[F.N.]

what doubled like this It has just as much to do with air exchange water quality and fertilization program . I am done anyways I will never spend the money these companies are asking for when I can grow monsters like this

I wish the best for you but I am done with this for now.

 

[BigSm0]

You may want to re-read what I wrote about that company. False false false claims. A 200 watt or whatever claiming to be a 1000w equivalent. Thousands of people fall for this shit and that's the whole point. Maybe you didn't even get it but most do. The only way to achieve more or an equivalent higher than the actual wattage is to have more efficiency.

Back on track, to the chest pumping and biceps flexing. Your lights produce and they produce well but at 25% and with a better light not some Chinese epistar pos claiming 1000w equivalent you would do much better. I agree I'm done as well, plenty understand the simple concept and I'm hoping a few more pop in to learn. While others are just helpless.

If your looking to buy a light first find out who makes the diodes. It's not like regular light bulbs sylvania vs Phillips. The difference is 25-50% higher par and 25-50% less electricity by going from junk to a quality light.

 

[F.N.]

You son are all talk and no pictures. I do not give a crap about claims I can take a cheap chinese 140 watt draw light and produce 140 grams of weed easy 1 gram a watt sunshine easy so where am I going wrong you go ahead and spend 2000 U.S. on a cree light that website you are bragging up is a rip off artist. Where are your pictures where are your journals all you are is talk

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Easy fellas lol... Good debate going on in here, some valid arguments from both sides by my count Let's not let it degenerate though!

I agree with BigSm0 on there being a lot of LED marketing fluff that hasn't really been challenged enough over the years (but I do think that's changing and will continue to change as the technology grows and becomes more main stream, consumers will simply demand more of the truth and hopefully we'll see some standards regulated.)

I also agree with Fairlynew, if a grow light can be had for next to nothing (compared to a higher end LED model) and it grows well, that IS a good investment to most people and kind of substantiates that it's not always about what's written on a product spec sheet. Not everyone is ready for a push-up wonder bra, instead they want to ease into it with the Hello Kitty training bra. When they feel more comfortable, then they go for the upgrades. In my opinion, I think a lot of consumers/growers have that mentality.

People buy these and grow stellar plants all the time. Does it make is a good purchase? Not in the least. My info here is only to help enlighten people of the truth about lights. Not claims but the hard facts. It's not about previous grows, buddies grows, YouTube grows it's about plants need light and the light companies lead people to believe that LEDs are some miracle like the picture below. Having a light that can produce more and use less boils down to efficiency and efficiency only.
View attachment 575895

If people grow great plants under a cheap light, how is that not a good purchase? If the INFORMATION for the light is bad, I can see an argument there, but it's tough to say something that works for cheap is a bad thing. I also disagree with the sentiment towards past grows. That's actually why this community EXISTS, brother . So we can chronicle grow journals and people can see for themselves the setups that growers have and how well things work for them. I say it a lot on here, we're a "proof is in the pudding" kind of site, and if you put up, it usually shuts people up. Leaves little wiggle for argument when you have glaring documented photo evidence that something does indeed work.

If your argument is about the marketing that promotes the said lights, then I would have to agree with you. The amount of crap lights purchased on Amazon that people come on here saying "why doesn't this WORK?" Very frustrating. Of course, companies find other ways to promote their lights other than wild claims too, including sending members to grow sites and bragging up their lights with little to no journal activity. That's why we work together as a community to push through the muck

Anyway, just giving my two cents (and it's pure opinion, feel free to disagree!) Having a hot cup of coffee and thought I'd chime in

 

[BigSm0]

A 50w Cree cob will out produce a 600w eBay special. That's cheap. Propably close to the same par watts as well.

I'm not here to argue or promote any companies. I actually came here to help others realize that 50% is bigger than 25% I'm sure 200 50w incandescents would produce some monsters. If anyone of us saw that I'm sure people would step in and say bud it's time for a change. Cause it really doesn't make sense. My first grow was with Mars hydros, it did well and the lights still work perfectly. It's a light I promote all the time to newer growers and they are easily affordable. The point is for the prices companies like kind and Apollo whatever charge for cheaper lights is disgusting. 1695 for a kind k5 that I own 2 of. Perfect door stops. I fell for it and paid the price big time. Running at 25% and for the cost I could have tripled the par.

 

[BigSm0]

I recommend starting with a cheaper light In the beginning. Older versions Mars are great, then instead of upgrading to $1500-2000 false claim light to then look into something with efficiency that does indeed prove claims. If your happy with lights that don't prove anything then by all means do so. As far as cost goes one of the best lights on the market is the cmh315 running at 43%, locally they are priced for under $400. @125 par watts where a 600w Mars is just over 50par watts which will grow perfectly fine and for the price it's great. But with a little math it takes 2.5 Mars to equal the output of a 315w light. When you figure out the little equations people can actually save huge money. I personally hate to see people fall for this and my only reasoning for all the bickering was to help others understand you can defo get more for less. If anyone wants journals I'll have to pm you since they aren't here.

5 plants under the Mars just over 600g dry. This grow I'm under Cree and plant size is double right at the preflowers phase.

 

[BigSm0]

You son are all talk and no pictures. I do not give a crap about claims I can take a cheap chinese 140 watt draw light and produce 140 grams of weed easy 1 gram a watt sunshine easy so where am I going wrong you go ahead and spend 2000 U.S. on a cree light that website you are bragging up is a rip off artist. Where are your pictures where are your journals all you are is talk

Yes they are rip off artists. This is why I posted a picture and said false false false claims. They are cheap junk and they will never come close to the claims, for some reason your trying to defend companies like this. But the reason I am here is to explain this to people who are new to growing. They see this and say well shit a 200 watt light that is equal to 1000w hps and dump tons of cash for it. In no way shape or form will an epistar diode be more efficient than a standard hps bulb. If your light has epistar or brigelux diodes then the claims shouldn't be higher than the draw wattage. For instance a 600w mars draws 250 at the wall, par watts are equal to a 250hps and nothing more.

The lights I run are 500 watts at the wall and in ~umoles are 32% more powerful than a 1000w hps and the cost isn't much above the cost of a Mars and a hell of a lot cheaper than a kind. Therefore people need to do some research and understand lighting, par watts, umoles and efficiency before dumping ass loads of money. If u can only afford cheap then buy cheap. If you can spend 3-400$ there are decent options.

 

[Atulip]

It's all good guys. Cheap lights grow good weed too, just takes more of em

Then you can upgrade later. I'm just waiting to find out when the drivers or fans give out on these Mars300s lol.




But general rule when swapping from hps to led, match the actual watts unless you KNOW it's high efficiency(ppf, ppfd of an area, umol/j, and even lumens for white light sometimes) if a manufacturer doesn't provide this, then there's no reason to buy into claims of "beats 1000w hid for only 500w!"

SE hps is 1.8umol/j(Hortilux) 1.2umol/j is the probably the minimum to match hps output with led.(20% reflector loss, 5% bulb age(if you replace every 2000 hours), 5% poorer spread) (A 25%-30% efficient generic epi panel is around 1.2-1.4umol/j)

 

[BigSm0]

I'm just wondering if it's a coincidence that there are so many refurbished kind lights available and it's impossible to send a light back to kind without it being damaged. I had 2 lights get ruined in "shipping" and heard about 2 others now that had the same thing happen. Then they make you wait weeks and weeks to tell you they won't take it back and you need to pay more to get it sent back to you after they deny your claim.

Your exactly right autlip about the lighting claims. It's annoying as all hell when you see the claims and people believe it or stick up for it. I am currently using my Mars as cheap fillin and working. But I would never buy into the 1000W ones they sell for crazy money when there are so many better options available.