Mephisto Genetics Tyrone Special K.I.S.S grow journal

[4n12c]

Hey Hubba, not taking it offensive at all quite the opposite. Your way of debating is super positive and in no way negative !

I am like You, industrialized products is mostly not My regime, but these "standards" have been worked out in cooperation with people which have been producing and perfected the drying process of herbal Cannabis to a point where it gets the "norm".

Going below the 12-15% bud moisture content seems to make it somehow more hot in the burning and "out of balance", whereas kept at those levels, the material is neither to dry/crisp nor to moist. It also has to do with preservation and curing of the flower, where higher moisture levels is unwanted.

But as many things here in life, its all about preference.

The Cannabinoid profile will and does change with drying and curing. Thats why there can be so many effects from same products, even put out of the same garden.

I am a huge believer in proper curing / aging of Thrichomes, in order to get mature Resin gland with a full spectrum profile.

For vaporization I find the Boveda values to be pretty good, its neither to crisp nor to fluffy and the effects has been more pronounced for Me, vape wise than using the same herb in a joint.

 

[Corgy]

I'm not sure, I just hope it is correct. I hate sharing bad info, some of my old posts are embarrassingly wrong.
The drying & curing mystery has been bugging me for a while. Lately I have all this Tyrone energy.

We are here for the THC (and the joy of growing stuff, right?)
But the plant makes THCA. And that slowly converts to THC by the release of Carbon Dioxide. Off Gassing.
Exactly the same as CBDA slowly converting to CBD by releasing CO2.
The conversion stops when our glass jar is full of Carbon Dioxide, right? Full is full.
This is why we burp the jar. (why, for the love of weed, doesn't anybody explain this stuff)

Carbon dioxides fills the jars, the weed can't decarb more until we open the jar.
Opening the jar also lets oxygen in, but the Oxysorb soaks it up before it damages the THC

But how often do I need to burp?
I have a cheap CO2 meter, lets test....

View attachment 497970

You are sort of correct..........what happens in a closed jar is that the plant material creates a modified atmosphere. I have done a cursory search but haven been able to find anything specifically about canna and respiration after harvest, but I'm pretty sure that is what is going on. Keeping a live product, i.e. a living organisme in a closed environment will result in all oxygen being used up and CO2 levels to increase. So assuming the canna buds, or more correctly flower stands, continue to respire after harvest, burping the jar also serves to replace O2 and release CO2. With low O2 levels comes anaerobic respiration, which leads to the plant starting to convert remaining carbohydrates into alcohol in an attempt to stay alive. Apples that have been starved of oxygen has a very distinct alcoholic taste, I can vouch for that, although it dissipates after 12-18 hours when O2 levels increase.
This is all very relevant when it comes to storage of fruits and vegetables, less so for cut flowers(roses, carnations and such), but whether it makes any difference to canna is questionable.

more here, or google "flower respiration after harvest"

http://www.fao.org/docrep/t0073e/t0073e02.htm
http://ucanr.edu/datastoreFiles/234-2469.pdf
http://www.extension.org/pages/1835...nd-their-relationship-to-postharvest-handling

 

[Corgy]

Best for what? Measurable stuff like: THC levesl? Lowest chlorophyll? Retained Terpenes?
Or subjective stuff like: smoothest, tastiest?
Best for vaporizers or joints?

What about dropping a fresh trimmed cola into a freezer bag. Fresh frozen.
No bags, no jars, no Boveda, no Oxysorb, no Hygrometer, no burping, no #$$%$#$ mold.
I agree with @Rhyce Saroni, fresh vaped buds are extra tasty.

I might even consider freeze drying, what do you think? But those machines are like $4000

Maybe a chunk of Dry Ice.... Does water ice really sublimate out of weed suspended above dry ice?

Dry ice is simply solid CO2, ref above post #232 about respiration, and keeping buds in a saturated CO2 atmosphere might affect taste and quality. And yes, water will sublimate out of matter at frozen CO2 temperature, -78.5 C, although it will happen very slooooooowly.........most likely wayyyyyyyy slower than the time it takes for a dedicated imbiber such as your good selves to empty a jar......could be wrong on this point though

 

[HubbaBubba]

Keeping a live product, i.e. a living organisme in a closed environment will result in all oxygen being used up and CO2 levels to increase."

Yikes, a live plant in a closed bottle is far beyond my simple thoughts.

I was writing about the dried buds in my jars right now.
They should be dead at 62% humidity. They are in slow decay. The Oxysorb prevents oxidation, the burping releases the slow build up of CO2 from decarbing. How fast does that CO2 build up? I've seen it bubbling up from oil being decarbed. In the jar the rate should be much slower, lower temp. Maybe I can actually measure the drop off when decarb it is mostly complete in a jar with one ounce of weed.

 

[HubbaBubba]

water will sublimate out of matter at frozen CO2 temperature, -78.5 C, although it will happen very slooooooowly

That is what I am thinking.... it might take a week or longer.
That is why Freeze Drying is done with a vacuum.
I guess I'll have to try dry ice on my next harvest.

Jorge Cervantes can't be wrong :
"When moist marijuana is enclosed with dry ice (frozen CO2) at virtually zero relative humidity, water molecules migrate from the cannabis to the dry ice. This causes the relative humidity of the CO2 to increase and the moisture content of the marijuana to decrease. This process occurs below 32*F (O*C), and it preserves cannabis.

Place equal amounts of dry ice and bud into a container. Put the dry ice on the bottom and bud on top. Seal with a lid. Make a few small holes in the lid of the container for excess gas to exit. Place in your Kitchen freezer. Check every 12-24 hours. When the dry ice is gone, the buds should be completely dry. If not dry, add more dry ice until cannabis is dry. Conserve dry ice by partially drying buds for a few days before enclosing with dry ice.

This method retains potency and freshness and causes very little degradation of resin glands from heat, light, air, and number one killer of resin glands fondling hands. The smoke has a mint-like taste because the chlorophyll does not break down."

 

[HubbaBubba]

And now, while we wait for the final dry yield numbers.
A little bud porn.

Mini Tyrone is still alive, weird but true. Still only 5cm tall

So short, it doesn't get much light, how can it be frosty.
What happens if I just let it grow?

 

[JohnnyShake]

Mint like flavor from lack of chlorophyll breakdown. No bueno. Freezing buds can cause resin heads to rupture. Freeze drying involves a vacuum, which would cause terpenes to boil off at a lower temp, resulting in a less potent end product and less tasty. I work on commercial lyophilizers and have tried this before.

 

[HubbaBubba]

Mint like flavor from lack of chlorophyll breakdown. No bueno. Freezing buds can cause resin heads to rupture. Freeze drying involves a vacuum, which would cause terpenes to boil off at a lower temp, resulting in a less potent end product and less tasty. I work on commercial lyophilizers and have tried this before.

Thank you. Your experience is better than my thinking in circles.

The terpenes all have a higher boiling point than water, don't they have sublimation point higher than water?
But it is pointless, freeze drying is not practical for a home grower.

How about using dry ice to sublimate the water out of the weed? Seems hard to believe, nearly mythical.

 

[JohnnyShake]

Terps are heavily affected by lower pressure, consider bho and co2 oil. First, when initially processed, they are terpy and smell great, then after a long vac purge you tend to, end up with almost no terpenes. Considering that lowering the pressure lowers the boiling point, it makes sense you would lose terps in a vacuum. Also, most freeze driers add heat to assist with the removal of moisture, further damaging the integrity of your medicine.

 

[JohnnyShake]

Also as far as sublimation to remove moisture, I agree it sounds ridiculous, but it's also a cheap and easy experiment. Not sure why you would want to leave the chlorophyll in the plant matter considering that's the point of drying and curing, getting rid of that grassy taste...and finishing the conversion of different cannabinoids.