Lighting LEDs direct from china

[9bear]

Ive been helping someone with the choices of there custom Apollo recently and I was disappointed to learn they now only offer a 120° secondary optic,great for veg not so much for bloom.

Very Interesting . :dance2: as I have 3 Bergman white widow's under a Cidly in the bloom phase and 2 more under the Lumini . It'll be interesting to see what happens . :tiphat:

 

[lax123]

I'm recieving numerous reported posts - mostly yours.

It's coming accross like you're on the verge of "trolling" certain members.
Please stop this or we will have to break out the rule book.

Please be nice - we've got some great LED growers and discussion is all good, but it's not coming accross well.

Hi,
I dont see by any means how.
All I did was comment on false Advertising by giving some Background info on effciencies, "real" plant spectrum, Quantum Efficiencies of photons etc.
Just because I disagree with someone and can actually provide plenty of sources for my arguments...it´s not trolling.
But please have a look at the Posts I made and tell me where I did troll someone. I dont get it.
*

I've been using the Rebel upgrades since Sept 2013 so there pretty old https://www.autoflower.org/f109/tangs-aww-grow-rebels-23796.html

Compared to Epistars and such it´s pretty new. I think Epis havent changed in the last 10 years.


*edit:
is it because I said it`s impossible by laws of physics for "normal" 150W of leds to beat 600W and provided plenty of info why it sounds too good to be true?
That got deleted as trolling, merely because I strongly disagree, I guess. To me it´s putting "Panel sellers" interests over those of growers. I never said anything directed at a specific Person.

 

[pop22]

The core of the problem here is the mistaken concept of rating lights by watts of power consumed. That factor is all but immaterial. Comparing lights should be a matter of comparing photon flux density per meter squared per second. Watts consumed per MOL, etc is merely an indicator of efficiency, nothing more. Compare the output of an LED which is driven to near its max, say 80-90% to any other light producing technology and LED wins hands down. Why? No tech invented yet can exceed the flux density of an LED. Think solid state laser, its really an LED on steroids.

I have one complaint about Chinese LED growlights, its that they under drive them too much and I believe they do so more out of worry about having to warranty their product than any other reason. Why are they driving new, 5 watt chips to 50% of rating when they use to drive 3 watt chops to an average of 65%? 5 watt chips cost them more so they want even fewer possible chip failures. Remember, this likely stems from cultural differences, not an outright desire to cheat anyone. A company with a 10% failure rate loses face to a competitor that has an 8% failure rate, so they adopt a "better safe than sorry" policy.

Science shows, that at the current time, LED technology is technically superior to all other, even if it doesn't appear so at the commercial level yet. Remember, LED lighting tech is still in its infancy.

And to complete this circle, we come right back to buyer beware, because no matter who or where a product is made, they all want to part you from your money, only the the ethics of the sellers differ..............

 

[TaNg]

Very Interesting . :dance2: as I have 3 Bergman white widow's under a Cidly in the bloom phase and 2 more under the Lumini . It'll be interesting to see what happens . :tiphat:

You will be interested in this grow bro it was using Cidley lights made to GNs spec. It was my 1.2mx1.2m room and I had 2 120w MS0004 in there each over a Big Buddha Auto Cheese and a 180w MS0006 over 2 OG Kush autos I started when the 2 BBCs were about day 40 going into flower.

https://www.autoflower.org/f109/tangs-auto-big-buddha-cheese-dinafem-og-kush-35211.html

I got 333g dry off the 2 Big Buddha Cheese....

Good quality too...

I also vegged these under the MS0006...

Full room...

So a total of about 420w.

Side note....
For those who have seen my Mephisto and BlackBerry Kush/Auto Euphoria threads you will know the results I got/am getting rival this grow from 150w which is pretty damn awesome although there not Chinese lol.

 

[9bear]

The core of the problem here is the mistaken concept of rating lights by watts of power consumed. That factor is all but immaterial. Comparing lights should be a matter of comparing photon flux density per meter squared per second. Watts consumed per MOL, etc is merely an indicator of efficiency, nothing more. Compare the output of an LED which is driven to near its max, say 80-90% to any other light producing technology and LED wins hands down. Why? No tech invented yet can exceed the flux density of an LED. Think solid state laser, its really an LED on steroids.

I have one complaint about Chinese LED growlights, its that they under drive them too much and I believe they do so more out of worry about having to warranty their product than any other reason. Why are they driving new, 5 watt chips to 50% of rating when they use to drive 3 watt chops to an average of 65%? 5 watt chips cost them more so they want even fewer possible chip failures. Remember, this likely stems from cultural differences, not an outright desire to cheat anyone. A company with a 10% failure rate loses face to a competitor that has an 8% failure rate, so they adopt a "better safe than sorry" policy.

Science shows, that at the current time, LED technology is technically superior to all other, even if it doesn't appear so at the commercial level yet. Remember, LED lighting tech is still in its infancy.

And to complete this circle, we come right back to buyer beware, because no matter who or where a product is made, they all want to part you from your money, only the the ethics of the sellers differ..............

Wow I'm impressed . :Cool bud: ( But he still can't tell me how to set up my Lumini 450r1 ) :dance2:

 

[pop22]

Wow I'm impressed . :Cool bud: ( But he still can't tell me how to set up my Lumini 450r1 ) :dance2:

\
Call tech support........then tell us your experience with that. might fix you right up, or it might make for a good story.............LOL! :Sharing One:

 

[lax123]

I have one complaint about Chinese LED growlights, its that they under drive them too much and I believe they do so more out of worry about having to warranty their product than any other reason.

This is data from typical 3W diodes you find in growlights, you can find hundrets of examples when looking for single 3W diodes:
Emitting Colour:Red
DC Forward Voltage:2.2V~2.8V
Forward Current: 700mA
Forward Voltage on Average about 2,5V multiplied with max forward current of 0,7A = You cannot drive these 3W leds with more then 1,75W.
Ofc you can but thats exceeding the max values supplied by datasheet and will result in a rather quick degradation of the leds.
Naming them 3W Diodes is just a very irritating...because they r not.

Underdriving, on the contrary, is actually what they should do with chinese growlights.
You can find a figure like this: http://www.ylati.ru/i/images/led/relative_flux_vs_current_led_cree.jpg
in each Datasheed of an led. Example at hand: At 300mA the Flux is 100%. At 900mA, tripple the current -the flux should be 300% but its at around 240%.
It means that 3 Leds at only 300mA deliver significantly more flux/lumens/light then one led running near its max specs.
Driving leds near their max diminishes their potential.

As another example, you can also see that in a rebel datasheet:
http://www.philipslumileds.com/products/luxeon-rebel/luxeon-rebel-color on page 3, compare effciency in column "350mA current" to "700mA" or on page 13. In this case its not so bad to drive them at 700mA compared to the epistars, because there is a really big difference in technology.

Comparing lights should be a matter of comparing photon flux density per meter squared per second.

Sellers usually will tell you a lot of Things but These numbers.
Sometimes they do and its still a buyers beware thingy. Because they measure directly under the light and assume that this is true "per squaremeter". When its just the value in the middle, and the light covers in fact at that very moment just lets say 0,3x 0,3 meters. This is often how they conclude their light is as good as e.g. 1000W hps. Whats needed is a footprint. Light hung at a distance and measured at different points within one sq meter. It´s like measuring a laser, gives you a crazy high values, but better dont check 5cm next to it.You will very often find this mistake, I dont know if its deliberately.
Maybe its not, an apogee quantum/PAR meter will give you the value per squaremeter, even if you just measure one point. People need to know what they r doing and in these cases maybe they dont.

Comparing lights should be a matter of comparing photon flux density per meter squared per second.

I dont find that to be true. You need per Watt/ per Joule in there, as this is what seperates the power of leds from other light sources.
Photosynthetic Photon Flux Density(PPFD)/ per Joule of power input -> efficiency. They can reach same PFD with less power then a diff light source ->more growth with smaller e-bill.

 

[F.N.]

Personally I do not mind if they underdrive the leds they will last longer.IMO I went with led manufacuter that gave the real output. The funniest thing my cheapest light a 300 watt plain jain old school led made the plant that was under it the frostiest plant out of all. With a mixture of two different spectrums I have a great all around spectrum I love my leds no heat issues the summer is going to wicked to grow indoors. There is so many positives that any little imperfections in the output just do not matter IMO

 

[gmgeoff]

I have 3 area 51,s w100's . 5 watt Cree White 3750K. using/putting out 50/100 watts.They are quite under driven when you do the math.
(left drag over THIS) Cree XTE Warm White 3750k XTEAWT-02-0000-00000B6which puts This puts them them between 590 amber and 615 orange nm Working great for veg. and flower.
the white is actually heading into the reds.


I bought 6 of these UFO,s direct from china and saved half. $160 a peace. Heavy buggers, but they are working great so far.
Also under driven by %?? Ok , I don't do math when I'm medicated

I think maybe the 5 watt er's are mainly under driven so much is for heat reduction.



Width:13.6
Light Source:LED Bulbs
Warranty:2 Years
Wattage:225W
Voltage: 85-265V
Power Source:AC
Model Number:APL-UFO-75*3w-2pcs/lot
Product power:225w(75x3w )
Color Ratio:630nm 660nm 610nm 460nm 430nm 740nm
Actual power consumption/draw:145-150w
full spectrum led grow lights
Chip size42mil red . 45mil blue

 

[F.N.]

I have 3 area 51,s w100's . 5 watt Cree White 3750K. using/putting out 50/100 watts.They are quite under driven when you do the math.
(left drag over THIS) Cree XTE Warm White 3750k XTEAWT-02-0000-00000B6which puts This puts them them between 590 amber and 615 orange nm Working great for veg. and flower.
the white is actually heading into the reds.


I bought 6 of these UFO,s direct from china and saved half. $160 a peace. Heavy buggers, but they are working great so far.
Also under driven by %?? Ok , I don't do math when I'm medicated

I think maybe the 5 watt er's are mainly under driven so much is for heat reduction.

View attachment 436437

Width:13.6
Light Source:LED Bulbs
Warranty:2 Years
Wattage:225W
Voltage: 85-265V
Power Source:AC
Model Number:APL-UFO-75*3w-2pcs/lot
Product power:225w(75x3w )
Color Ratio:630nm 660nm 610nm 460nm 430nm 740nm
Actual power consumption/draw:145-150w
full spectrum led grow lights
Chip size42mil red . 45mil blue

Looks like a nice mixture of spectrums> that is a good price too