Indoor Growing Scrog

[420autoflower]

Had to zoom in and have a close look at those busted knuckles. Whew. Gonna be tough doing that the first time! Would be neat to see a video of you performing that operation. Do you massage them into compliance first, or just go for it?

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Sorry Bro… no video on the HST but a good pair of pliers will help with super cropping.

Come to think of it, this was the part of the 420 method that worried me the most. Wonder if that might be a partial answer to your mention that there have not been that many takers, at least so far?

I think you’re right about that!
The process is kind of extreme and not for your average grower.

Thank you, I will check that out, I am still in cleanup and building a stand for my 4×8 flood tray. I plan to link 2-27 gallon totes as my rez. I already have flora nova bloom but only the 2 part coco grow so far or Mega Crop to start with. My first run I tried to reverse a 3 bears og × mango smile, that project failed. I just aquired 10 more seeds of this same strain so I can attempt to reverse it again. I can say the top I took at day 15(before i knew to lay it down instead of topping it) rooted. I only got 3.5g from it but the effects are exactly what I want. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

You’re very welcome @Gr8racr!
A 4x8” tray will keep you very busy. Are you planning on running ebb&flow or drip hydro?

I get the feeling that you may be a perfectionist when it comes to your scrogging.

By looking at his clean sterile setup I think he might be too.

Did you have some links to cheap good grow lights ?

Yes!!!!
Here you go!
I have all 3 and they work very well.


240 watt FarmLite

300watt Bloom Plus Pro

240watt Aglex

Pulled all of them down today on the net and did a heavy second defol at the same time.

here is before

View attachment 1721365
I have the second cheap ordinary plastic net not the nylon, but didnt but it on yet since the pulldown was semi successful.

Also added 2 support colums for the net

here is after

View attachment 1721366

View attachment 1721367
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What do you guys think did I do the 2 defol too early, I did it because I put the scrog lower at the same time ?

1 heavy defol and scrogg 25.11 was late 1 week flowers already developing on tops.
2 heavy defol 12.12, all the lower fan leaves, some of the upper fan leaves on the ones that had good sugar leaf production and some buds already

Now I read somewhere that that 2 defol should be done more lightly.

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Nice @MN8484!
Welcome to the jungle!!!! Lol!
Great job on the defoliation/canopy maintenance and good decision to pull everything down as far as you could. I can see how your canopy widened out after that and now you have more light penetration to the lower part of your scrog. You might have to strip them down a couple more times to get the best results but so far so good!.
Love your homemade preacher lecterns holding up your under canopy.

When you supercrop like that yeah you want to gently crush the stem with your thumb fingers and yeah, kind of massage it and work it in to place. You dont just wanna start snapping stems lol.

For particularly thick branches, you could also consider using pliers wrapped in tape to protect them. I used this method myself for the toughest stems (I saw 420's pliers in a photo somewhere here in this thread.). Even then, I was extremely cautious.

The thought of taking a pair of pliers to your plants that you’ve been babying for weeks is kind of intimidating but you get use to it after awhile.

I’m a new grower who just finished my photoperiod soil grow and I’m interested in the 420autoflower SCROG method. Read 420autoflower posts and would like to ask some questions. Can I ask on this thread even if I don’t grow autoflowers?

Anytime Brother!
I’ve been extremely busy moving and scrogging out my plants the past week so I apologize for the late response but feel free to ask questions and thanks for joining us here on this wonderful forum.

Hey! I made an account just so I can say THANK YOU for posting such valuable information online.

As someone who just recently switched to growing in Rockwool, there seems to be a huge lack of information available for rockwool growing (at least compared to soil).

Your "420autoflower scrog method" is easily the best training method I have seen for rockwool plants. I'm trying to implement it for my current grow and I'm already seeing a ton of tight internodal spacing and evenly spaced chutes. Thanks again! Attached some pics

I'm using plant wire instead of a coathanger, seems like it's working nicely so far.


I'm growing photos too. What are your questions?

You’re very welcome Brother!
You’re off to a fantastic start… got a nice bend on your mains and I can see how your lowers are coming up now. Please keep us updated on your progress and thanks for sharing

I'm 15 days into my first rockwool 420-method grow, after three previous DWC grows ( all-water ), and having regarded the roots that grew through the 4" rockwool blocks, I can tell you that they were much thicker in diameter than DWC roots, and the plants are way ahead of what the DWC plants were at 15 days.

Good to know @Mongoose!
After running different hydroponic methods over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that a top fed drip system with multiple fertigations is much more efficient and will grow you a bigger auto compared to DWC or Ebb&Flow.

View attachment 1721453

View attachment 1721454

All of them shooted nicely up since yesterdays defol and rescrogging

Your plants are healthy Bro and no reason they shouldn’t bounce back quick.

Hey my friends, can I please get some advice on light intensity and distance I should be with my 240watt LED fixture from my canopy for 420A's Scrog Method? It's a high intensity dimmable full spectrum LED.

- I'm at day 7 seedling stage and have real slow growth compared to where I think I should be. I've have had my 240Watt full spectrum LED 45cm from the canopy with roughly 12ish dli. After reading your post the other day, Mongoose, I seen you mentioned you have had your LED's at 15 - 20cm from your seedlings pushing 55dli. I've gone ahead and set mine to what you have going on and am monitoring. I'm assuming this is to push the seedlings hard for rapid growth? So yeah wondering whats the general consensus with that. Cheers all, I'll pop a picture up here so you can see the slow progress. No roots showing through the rockwool yet..

Feeding till runoff with Green Planet Duel Fuel + Vitathrive. pH @ 6.0, EC @ 0.8.
24hrs Lights on, 23 - 25 degrees C, 55 - 65%Humidity

Cheers All!
View attachment 1721495

Sorry Tristan! I’m no help on this matter as I know nothing about DLI or PPFD.
All I can tell you is that I usually hang my light about 18” from my youngsters and have the lights set on low power when they’re in the seedling stage.

Hello growers,



I just finished my first grow-in soil. It was a slow pace so I wanted to move to hydro. I’m looking into coco/perlite 50/50 in autopots or drip irrigation. While I was on week 3 I found out about the 420autoflower SCROG method and man I was hooked I know I’m just a noob here but I would like to learn this growing method and maybe you would help me guys. I’m going to get more experience by growing photoperiod because autoflowers are fast and it’s not for the first time growers. Everything must be dialed in from the start. Later I want to move to autoflowers but until then I want to get more experience. Thank you guys for any help or direction!

1. For photoperiod do you run 18/6 lights in veg or longer?
2. Do you top photoperiod or just bend the main branch and let it grow?
3. I’m thinking about 7-gallon 50/50 coco/perlite. Is it enough or you would run a bigger or smaller pot?
4. I’m thinking about Autopot 7-gallon plastic 4 pots. Can I use it or is it better to use a drip irrigation system?
5. How long would you veg photoperiod plant until the flip?
6. Do you use Silica? I wonder if you would use Silica from the beginning, wouldn’t your plant branches would be hard to SCROG?
7. SCROG photoperiod 10 days later after a flip? Not before the flip? My buddy advised me to super-crop one week before a flip to recover. But you know better guys.
8. How do you use Mykos? I read that Mykos is not good in the reservoir.
9. Are these nutrients good?

1. Terra Aquatica Maxi Grow

2. Terra Aquatica Maxi Bloom

3. Terra Aquatica Pro Roots

4. Terra Aquatica Pro Bloom

5. Mykos

6. Clonex



I have a 13x13x7 room. I have an exhaust fan, humidifier, and dehumidifier that suit this big room. I can control the environment with no problems. I grew on well water which has 340ppm. I'm getting an RO filter now. I have an 800w EVO Kingbrite light. I'm thinking about 4 plants per light. Is it enough guys? I'm thinking about getting two more lights. More plants more learning curveIf you could help me or guide me in the right direction that would be great! Have a great grow guys!

Photos would be much more forgiving and a great way to start learning the 420 method. The fact that you’ll be in full control over your flowering time and mistakes can be made will be a big advantage. With photos you’ll also get the results you want on your first run and your learning curve will be more enjoyable.

18/6 during veg is fine but IMHO hitting the plant with 24 hours of light is better.

Keeping the main top horizontal for 14-20 days will help create a nice bushy plant with a lot of side branching, and you’ll be guaranteed the largest colas from not topping.

I’m only running 2 gallon plastic grow bags or 9x6” chunks of rockwool so a 7 gallon bag might be overkill.

I’ve heard a lot of good things and seen many nice autos grown with Autopots but I think top fed drip hydro is the way to go.

Your photo veg time would depend on how quick you can produce a nice bushy plant that you can scrog into the space you want. For example… a 10-12 inch plant after scrogging should fill in a 24x24” tent, a 15 inch plant in a 32x32” tent and a 17-18 inch plant in a 36x36” tent.

I start supplementing with silica around day 20

Scrogging day 1 after flipping your photos is fine. The problem you’ll run into when scrogging autos early is your nodes in the middle of your canopy will grow too tall and will force you to rescrog into a bigger tent. But with photos having only 12 hours of light during flower I think it would be to your best interest to scrog earlier if you want the best results.

I run Mycos in my feed and never had a problem.

Basically any name brand N-P-K line will work well with this method. Your numbers should be your main concern so it’s important to have a good EC and PH pen you can rely on.

800watts for 4 scrogged plants is more than enough

If you're looking for pace, I'd recommend you to just go for autos straight away. Imo autos suit beginners well too, no reason be to be scared – you'll make mistakes and learn regardless of whether you pick photos or autos. Mind you autos also give you room for errors.

Keeping with the grow style of the thread I'd recommend considering the periodically top fertigated method with 70/30 coco and perlite (if you don't want rockwool). For example, you could do as @greenauto does with a big flood table and a reservoir.

And for some of the questions:

1. You can go 24/0 for vigorous growth.
2. No need for topping really, keeping the apical meristem (the main top) tied down by LST should be enough.
3. 7 gal would be plenty.
5. Depends on how big plants you'd want and your setup can handle.
6. Yes, silica from beginning. It will affect the sturdiness of stems but it won't hinder scrogging significantly.
8. Mykos can be placed in the substrate.
9. Yes TA (ex GHE) is a solid and tried option. @420autoflower has used the US equivalent version of NovaMax by TA. If you're set on going with coco you could also opt for their coco line. As for Pro Roots and Pro Bloom, TA says they are more unconventional in terms of their formulas compared to their Root Booster and Bloom Booster products – Pro Roots and Pro Bloom ofc are handy in that they are small packages.

But yeah, you can of course make the choices that suit you best. Something to consider is that scrogging multiple plants together can be difficult, especially for canopy maintenance.

Great advise!!!
Thank you!

Has anybody tried something like Mills Cork soil with this system?


Or is the soil part just plain bad with reservoirs and drip feed.

View attachment 1721514

Never run coco and soil together in hydroponics but I’m sure it’ll work.

Thank you very much for your input Growing autos would let me run multiple plants in the same room, no need for a seperate room for vegging plants. I was thinking about growing in 4x4 rock wool and later placing them in coco/perlite mix. I can get maximum 6x6 rockwool blocks. Is it enough to grow autos in them? I’m from EU so it’s hard to find bigger or I just don’t know where to find it. Also, thanks for input about the Pro Roots and Pro Bloom. So the grow would start like this:

Germinate in 1.5” rockwool cube pre-soaked in 250ppm at 6.0Ph. When it roots, put it in a 4x4 block that is pre-soaked in 650ppm at 6.0Ph. Later stack on a 6x6 block or on coco perlite pot(3gall pot?). Use drip irrigation 4-5 times a day. I’m going drain to the waist because I don’t want to fuck it up with the recirculating system as I’m the beginner. Schwazz and SCROG 3-5 days after I see first pistils?

As for drip irrigation, you let it drip on the top of the 4x4 block or stick the tube in the rock wool?

Really appreciate any input

Everything looks right but I hand feed twice a day, then hook them up to automated fertigation and feed 4-5 times a day around day 20.

5-7 days after your first pistils show with autos and immediately after flip with photos.

Feed line should be pointing directly at the base of the stock but not buried in the rockwool

Thank you!

I use automated watering. Specifically, I'm pouring water on top of the blocks for increments of 10 seconds about 8 times a day, starting an hour after lights on ending an hour before lights off water shots once every 2-3 hours.
Grodan, the company that makes the rockwool cubes, hosts some documentation online that gives you instructions and formulas for how to calculate your ideal watering amounts. I started out by obsessing and calculating how many ML I'm giving per shot, but I've gotten a little more relaxed with it.
Here's some watering rules based on the Grodan documentation:

• During veg, you want short shots of water. If your plants are thirsty, add more shots instead of changing the shot size/duration
• During veg, you should aim for a little bit of runoff towards the middle/end of the day. Aim for 5%-10% of the block's volume as runoff
• During flower, you want long shots of water less often. You want to let the rockwool dry out a little more between waterings compared to veg
• During flower, you should be getting more runoff towards the middle/end of the day. Aim for 10%-25% of the block's volume as runoff.

Going over some of your other questions:

You can do either. If you get your watering automation locked down, you can get really big plants from tiny amounts of rockwool. This video is a good example of someone growing respectable sized plants in just 3 inch rockwool. My last grow was only using the 6x6 "hugo" blocks (unfortunately hadn't found the 420autoflower scrog method yet), I haven't harvested but my plants are just as big as when I was growing in 5Gal soil pots and I'm sure I could've gotten them bigger with a longer veg time.
View attachment 1721518View attachment 1721519

With my newest run, I'm trying to do just 2 plants instead of 8, I'm gonna see how big they can get by being in 6x6 blocks stacked on top of the 8x8 blocks.



This should work out fine. Some people argue that you don't need to soak the original germination 1.5" cube in nutrients, just regular water, but I don't think it hurts to give them some feed right away.
PH doesn't need to be 6.0 exactly, I've been ranging my PH from 5.5 to 6.0 without much issue, usually I start and soak with 5.5
You can stack your 6x6 block onto coco or another 6x6 block, I'd recommend waiting until you see roots coming out the bottom of the top block and "transplant" by stacking and letting the top block dry out for a day while the bottom block is nice and wet. Afterwards, depending on whether you can see rooting in the bottom block/substrate you might want to continue watering from the top block for a week before you switch to only watering the bottom block and letting the roots wick up what they need into the top block.

Timeline based on previous posts in this thread:

• Around day 16 after germination you want to stake the main top down to allow the lower branches to catch up in height
• Keep the main top pinned down for a couple of weeks, adjusting the stake as needed
• The original instruction is the flatten the plants out and scrog about 5-7 days after seeing the first preflower pistils. Since we're growing photos, I'm not sure that this timing is as critical here, just make sure your plant doesn't get too tall for your space before you flip, you want to end up with enough "preflower stretch time" for the lower nodes to be able to hit and fill out your scrog net

I've tried both without issue. According to Grodan, if you stick the tube into the rock wool, you want it to be emitting at a 0.5GPH flow or less, otherwise the water pressure will be too strong and "create channels in the rockwool". For watering on top of the cube, I think most of the people in this thread are using the FloraFlex FloraCaps which help redistribute water evenly when poured on top

Last note, for nutrients, I'd highly recommend CropSalts to anyone interested in new nutrients. I tried the GH Flora Trio for my first run, the feed chart had me running different ratios of their three bottles every week and I was constantly troubleshooting issues with my plants. I switched to CropSalts and I couldn't be happier. Same formula/ratio from seed to flower week 4, a different flower formula/ratio for flower week 4-8, and a third formula/ratio for the last weeks of flush. Also, my rez PH is a lot more stable compared to when I was using the GH flora trio. Super easy and has worked incredible for me in my first run with it

More solid advice from another experienced rockwool grower.
Thanks for the input @LibreLoud!

Terra Aquatic is the new name for General Hydroponics Maxi Grow etc, it's the stuff you want. This product also has Calcium and magnesium included so no need to add any extra calmag. When you see pistols switch to the Maxi Bloom and add an additional bllomer, something like Kool Bloom or Moster Bloom to reach your target EC/PPM.

Just run your lights 24/7 full blast, ph6 entire grow and keep your ec/ppm in range at the required times.

Hey Brother!
I noticed that awhile ago. Don’t know why they had to go and confuse everyone with a different name.

Thank you for your knowledge. I will plan my grow and possibly soon start it For cleaner system I could get Athena Cleanse. My guys that I buy said it will make it clean from clogging. Do you know this Athena brand? I see they charge some on it

Athena Cleanse will not be needed with your drain to waste plan and Terra Alta Nutrients. Terra Alta (AKA Flora Trio) is not thick and you won’t have any problems with clogging. The General Hydroponics FloraNova Grow I’m currently running is a lot thicker than the trio and I’ve never had a issue with clogged lines.

I’ll be switching over to Drip Hydro Nutrients after stretch which is basically rebranded Athena that is made exclusively for Grow Generation.
Planning on changing over to Drips powdered line to save money after I run out of my liquid Drip.

DOA, or 420: When I've had my lights near the canopy at previous grows, I've had short, thick and healthy stem growth. This at widely recommended ppfd and dli. I look at 420s plants near the end of stretch, and guess at light-to-canopy distance in the photos, and wonder if that distance, whatever it is, is important -- to get the stretch required. Any thoughts on this? Thank you!

Good question Bro!
Unfortunately, I haven’t figured out the secrets to stretch yet but always trying to figure it out.

With respect to what 420 wrote much earlier in this thread: "I give my plants extra goodies but I honestly think they would do just as well with only the FloraNova Grow/Bloom. Fertigating 5-8 times a day will definitely help with that vigorous growth." ... I decided to just follow his recipe exactly -- for rockwool, nutes brand and ppms and pH through all the growth phases, to take those variables totally out of the equation. The only unknowns at this point are ppfd, dli, and light distance from canopy. If I lived next door I would be happily gift him Photone + diffuser, and some beers.

Lol… thanks buddy!
Glad other people are chiming in on the DLI questions.

Gotcha, thank you

So I could SCROG photoperiod on day 1 after a flip? I read that 420autoflower said in one of his posts “10 days after a flip”.

Sorry… disregard what I said about 10 days after flip with photos. I’ve never tried the 420autoflower method on photos yet but I think more hours of light would help develop a fuller canopy. Scrogging a day after flip will give your photos more time under the net to make up for the less hours of light they’ll be getting.

Unless you grow the autos on 12/12

Not enough hours of light IMO.

You'll not reach the full potential of the 420method with Autos on 12/12 lights, it's no good.

But 420method works for photos also? Or it works only if it’s 24/0 lights?

It will work with photos but scrog earlier

Gotcha Is there any difference when to SCROG photos? On day 1 when you flip or 10 days later like 420autoflower mentioned? I have a lot of space so that’s not a problem if it’s stretches. Thanks for sharing your expierence

I would scrog your photos on day 1 after flip or earlier.

Yep. I messed around with Photone's instructions on how to use paper as a diffuser, but it had to be exactly '22 lb' paper. The clip-on diffuser is one of those 'one & done forever' expenses.

I really need to get into this DLI stuff instead of just winging it.

Day 18

( Growing two plants side by side, will document only one unless meaningful divergence. )

FastBuds Gorilla Auto.
700 ppfd : 55 dli : 24/7 : 50 watts per plant.
450 ppm : pH 6. General Hydroponics: Silica, CalMag, Micro, Gro, Bloom.
77-82 F : 50% RH.

View attachment 1721737


View attachment 1721738

Looking like they should Bro!
Keep that top pointing horizontal for at least 2 weeks and you’ll have a couple nice plants to scrog out. More work keeping that top pinned down compared to just chopping off the head (topping) but you’ll get better results from the LST and larger colas. And who doesn’t like larger colas! Lol!

No, no super crop, i fim topped them at about 16days and tied them down at a 45* angle. Let the branches reach up and dropped the net. For a regular photoperiod scrog grow the general advice i always hear is train your canopy out to fill about 75-80% full canopy coverage under the net and then flip, continuing training under the net for a couple weeks letting it stretch to fill in the rest. After 2-3 wks strain depending when the net is full, you finish flowering letting the colas grow upwards at an even-ish rate. Sorry @420autoflower , didnt mean to hijack your thread. @FastPace this is all readily available info if youre willing to research, which i suggest. The 420method is @420autoflower ’s specific rockwool autoflower scrog program that he has dev loped for autos. If youre looking for regular scrog info for photoperiod strains than there are other threads. I suggest reading this whole thread from page 1 so you have an understanding of the process. The 420method isnt just scrogging, but a combo of Hydroponics in rockwool, heavy defoliation/schwazzing at specific times, as well as SuperCropping and LST and Scrog to achieve a desired result using xxl strains of autoflowers. Hope this helps.

You got it @KingRatt!
You’ve been following long enough to know the 420 method is unlike your typical scrog.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Won’t happen again. Thank you for your in-depth input

No worries @FastPace!
Post away Brother!

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4th week of flower

Total 7 autos

Nice!!!!
Big harvest coming soon!!!
Good to invest in a Trim Bag to save you hours of post harvest labor.

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A journal comparing VEG/FLOWER cycles difference in LED/HPS

Im having my veg tent 120x240cm in the next grow with 9 Plants:

2 x hortimol 330w led lights
1 x DLI CRI-series 315W CMH + phillips lamp
+ option for 2x 90w lights in the edges

Together input about 1150w lights covering CMH + LED
Should get something like maximum 600-700ppfd almost all around the tent and more in the LED centres if needed.

I got these seeds:

Dutch passion: auto critical orange punch ( 4plants )
Bomb seeds: auto cosmic bomb (4 plants )

Still trying to get: Speedrun seeds Granite haze..... for the run after these.

Thinking about trying half with only Rockwool and half with hydro 40/coco 60

.......

After veg changing them under my 2 x 600w hortimol bigger led lights and flowering room, with 90w bloom plus under canopy lights.

Every plant has scrogg net space something like 80cm x 80cm

Will be covering that here, ( and scrogging them on time and also better so that the nets dont bend this time.... )

WONDERING HOW MUCH CAN I YIELD WHEN HAVING THEM IN DRIP FEED AND ALL TOGETHER IN MY 2 X 4 POT WILMAS WITHOUT A SEPARATE TENT FOR EVERY PLANT ?

ALSO PLANNING TO METER THE PPFD OF THE EDGES OF THE SCROGG AREA IN THE FLOWERING CYCLE IF IM GOING TO ADD MORE OF 90W BLOOM PLUS LIGHTS ON THE EDGES OF THE CEILING.

View attachment 1721890

I counted my cycles go nicely:
4-5 weeks in veg.
Then scrogg them in the flower room, strech them and flower 8-11 weeks .
Then drying for 1-2weeks.

I could possibly get a new harvest ready every 9-12 weeks.

Awesome experiment @MN8484! Cant wait to see the results!
I’m obviously not that technical when it comes to growing weed but love to see what can be done from the guys/girls who are.
Thanks for all your updates Bro and keep up the great work!

 

[KingRatt]

So what everybodys thoughts on Triacontanol? Ive heard people say they dont like superthrive because of it. It is a PGR but it os a naturally occurring PGR and PGRs are not created equal. Ive used superthrive, SnowStormUltra and MOAB and all supposedly contain triacobtanol. After a couple hrs of research i couldnt find any sources of triacontanol used that werent organic. Alfalfa is loaded with the stuff and i know Kelp has natural PGRs amd everybody is fine with those?! I dont know, the more i research, the less of a problem i find with triacontanol, i will keep researching, but i am curious on everybody’s stance, especially those who have done the research! Hope yer all having a great day at best canna site in the digital world!!! AFN!!!

 

[BII]

..... im really surprised it hasnt become the standard......

I could have missed some things about the method, but reasons holding back adoption for me (growing for self) include:
a) optimally needs automated feeding, setting up and maintaining a reservoir, plumbing, etc. (vs. say simple mix and drain-to-waste)
b) rockwool seems expensive (e.g., use multiple 8x8 blocks/plant at ~$10-$20/block; can't reuse blocks)
c) spreading out the plant means a drastic reduction in variety of strains being grown; 1 plant could fill the tent!
d) I'm still not a believer in drastic leaf removal, shwazzing, etc.
e) No claims of better quality or yield per space used vs. say growing more plants in same space, doing LST and maintaining a level canopy

So what everybodys thoughts on Triacontanol? Ive heard people say they dont like superthrive because of it. It is a PGR but it os a naturally occurring PGR and PGRs are not created equal. Ive used superthrive, SnowStormUltra and MOAB and all supposedly contain triacobtanol. After a couple hrs of research i couldnt find any sources of triacontanol used that werent organic. Alfalfa is loaded with the stuff and i know Kelp has natural PGRs amd everybody is fine with those?! I dont know, the more i research, the less of a problem i find with triacontanol, i will keep researching, but i am curious on everybody’s stance, especially those who have done the research! Hope yer all having a great day at best canna site in the digital world!!! AFN!!!

Perhaps search the world's biomedical, including toxicology, literature such as PUBMED, and agricultural literature such as AGRICOLA. Also, many standard toxicology references likely have entries for triacontanol. Check the Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances (RTECS) if it's available.

Triacontanol is regulated in the US by EPA as a pesticide, and there should be lots of studies associated with that. For ex., see https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/08/16/2017-17338/1-triacontanol-exemption-from-the-requirement-of-a-tolerance#:~:text=for 1-triacontanol.-,VIII.,directions and good agricultural practices.

 

[LibreLoud]

Sorry Bro… no video on the HST but a good pair of pliers will help with super cropping.

I think you’re right about that!
The process is kind of extreme and not for your average grower.

Thanks again for posting your wealth of information as well as your kind words

I hit day 17 of veg today on my two photo plants, I decided they're just about appropriate size to start scrogging; since people were asking you for a video I decided to record it.

Is this on-brand with the way you do it? Hope it's helpful for someone out there!

 

[FastPace]

Thanks again for posting your wealth of information as well as your kind words

I hit day 17 of veg today on my two photo plants, I decided they're just about appropriate size to start scrogging; since people were asking you for a video I decided to record it.

Is this on-brand with the way you do it? Hope it's helpful for someone out there!

That’s nice! These videos are great for educational purpose

 

[LibreLoud]

Thanks again for posting your wealth of information as well as your kind words

I hit day 17 of veg today on my two photo plants, I decided they're just about appropriate size to start scrogging; since people were asking you for a video I decided to record it.

Is this on-brand with the way you do it? Hope it's helpful for someone out there!

Couple of close-up photo follow-ups to show off the aggressive knuckling and HST bends, I feel like it went really well! Didn't end up breaking or tearing off any branches, my bends didn't snap the stem open anywhere. Took about 15 minutes total!

My plan is to let them grow horizontally for almost a month while my flower tent finishes out and empties out. Around new years I'll be moving these ladies from a 2x4 tent to their final home 5x5 tent, I'll probably continue scrogging for 1-4 more weeks in their new home before flipping them to flower.

I'm hoping the timing ends up working out, I'm sure it'll be a big hassle to move these to a bigger tent and rescrog in a few weeks. Might take some clones in a week or two as a way to slow/cull progress

 

[Mongoose]

I really need to get into this DLI stuff instead of just winging it.

The Photone app, iPhone version, was $7 when I purchased it a few months ago. It's simple and easy to use, very well done. The clamp-on cosine diffuser that the Photone people recommend was $27 when I checked the other day, less than what I paid for it. Would bet you'll really like knowing exactly what's going on with your lighting -- if you're using watts effectively and wisely.

 

[KingRatt]

Sorry Bro… no video on the HST but a good pair of pliers will help with super cropping.

I think you’re right about that!
The process is kind of extreme and not for your average grower.



You’re very welcome @Gr8racr!
A 4x8” tray will keep you very busy. Are you planning on running ebb&flow or drip hydro?


By looking at his clean sterile setup I think he might be too.



Yes!!!!
Here you go!
I have all 3 and they work very well.


240 watt FarmLite
View attachment 1721934

300watt Bloom Plus Pro
View attachment 1721935

240watt AglexView attachment 1721936



Nice @MN8484!
Welcome to the jungle!!!! Lol!
Great job on the defoliation/canopy maintenance and good decision to pull everything down as far as you could. I can see how your canopy widened out after that and now you have more light penetration to the lower part of your scrog. You might have to strip them down a couple more times to get the best results but so far so good!.
Love your homemade preacher lecterns holding up your under canopy.







The thought of taking a pair of pliers to your plants that you’ve been babying for weeks is kind of intimidating but you get use to it after awhile.

Anytime Brother!
I’ve been extremely busy moving and scrogging out my plants the past week so I apologize for the late response but feel free to ask questions and thanks for joining us here on this wonderful forum.



You’re very welcome Brother!
You’re off to a fantastic start… got a nice bend on your mains and I can see how your lowers are coming up now. Please keep us updated on your progress and thanks for sharing




Good to know @Mongoose!
After running different hydroponic methods over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that a top fed drip system with multiple fertigations is much more efficient and will grow you a bigger auto compared to DWC or Ebb&Flow.



Your plants are healthy Bro and no reason they shouldn’t bounce back quick.



Sorry Tristan! I’m no help on this matter as I know nothing about DLI or PPFD.
All I can tell you is that I usually hang my light about 18” from my youngsters and have the lights set on low power when they’re in the seedling stage.



Photos would be much more forgiving and a great way to start learning the 420 method. The fact that you’ll be in full control over your flowering time and mistakes can be made will be a big advantage. With photos you’ll also get the results you want on your first run and your learning curve will be more enjoyable.

18/6 during veg is fine but IMHO hitting the plant with 24 hours of light is better.

Keeping the main top horizontal for 14-20 days will help create a nice bushy plant with a lot of side branching, and you’ll be guaranteed the largest colas from not topping.

I’m only running 2 gallon plastic grow bags or 9x6” chunks of rockwool so a 7 gallon bag might be overkill.

I’ve heard a lot of good things and seen many nice autos grown with Autopots but I think top fed drip hydro is the way to go.

Your photo veg time would depend on how quick you can produce a nice bushy plant that you can scrog into the space you want. For example… a 10-12 inch plant after scrogging should fill in a 24x24” tent, a 15 inch plant in a 32x32” tent and a 17-18 inch plant in a 36x36” tent.

I start supplementing with silica around day 20

Scrogging day 1 after flipping your photos is fine. The problem you’ll run into when scrogging autos early is your nodes in the middle of your canopy will grow too tall and will force you to rescrog into a bigger tent. But with photos having only 12 hours of light during flower I think it would be to your best interest to scrog earlier if you want the best results.

I run Mycos in my feed and never had a problem.

Basically any name brand N-P-K line will work well with this method. Your numbers should be your main concern so it’s important to have a good EC and PH pen you can rely on.

800watts for 4 scrogged plants is more than enough



Great advise!!!
Thank you!



Never run coco and soil together in hydroponics but I’m sure it’ll work.

Everything looks right but I hand feed twice a day, then hook them up to automated fertigation and feed 4-5 times a day around day 20.

5-7 days after your first pistils show with autos and immediately after flip with photos.

Feed line should be pointing directly at the base of the stock but not buried in the rockwool



More solid advice from another experienced rockwool grower.
Thanks for the input @LibreLoud!




Hey Brother!
I noticed that awhile ago. Don’t know why they had to go and confuse everyone with a different name.



Athena Cleanse will not be needed with your drain to waste plan and Terra Alta Nutrients. Terra Alta (AKA Flora Trio) is not thick and you won’t have any problems with clogging. The General Hydroponics FloraNova Grow I’m currently running is a lot thicker than the trio and I’ve never had a issue with clogged lines.

I’ll be switching over to Drip Hydro Nutrients after stretch which is basically rebranded Athena that is made exclusively for Grow Generation.
Planning on changing over to Drips powdered line to save money after I run out of my liquid Drip.



Good question Bro!
Unfortunately, I haven’t figured out the secrets to stretch yet but always trying to figure it out.



Lol… thanks buddy!
Glad other people are chiming in on the DLI questions.



Sorry… disregard what I said about 10 days after flip with photos. I’ve never tried the 420autoflower method on photos yet but I think more hours of light would help develop a fuller canopy. Scrogging a day after flip will give your photos more time under the net to make up for the less hours of light they’ll be getting.





Not enough hours of light IMO.





It will work with photos but scrog earlier



I would scrog your photos on day 1 after flip or earlier.



I really need to get into this DLI stuff instead of just winging it.

Looking like they should Bro!
Keep that top pointing horizontal for at least 2 weeks and you’ll have a couple nice plants to scrog out. More work keeping that top pinned down compared to just chopping off the head (topping) but you’ll get better results from the LST and larger colas. And who doesn’t like larger colas! Lol!



You got it @KingRatt!
You’ve been following long enough to know the 420 method is unlike your typical scrog.



No worries @FastPace!
Post away Brother!



Nice!!!!
Big harvest coming soon!!!
Good to invest in a Trim Bag to save you hours of post harvest labor.



Awesome experiment @MN8484! Cant wait to see the results!
I’m obviously not that technical when it comes to growing weed but love to see what can be done from the guys/girls who are.
Thanks for all your updates Bro and keep up the great work!

Dli is super simple to figure out, even without a meter, you can get a ballpark idea from your light manufacturer stats. Its only become important to me recently because of the switch to LEDs and i just want to make sure im giving them enough light. Especially with the smaller wattage setup. There are plenty of DLI calculators online where you just type in your PPFD and your hrs of lights on and it gives your DLI. Calculating my DLI allowed me to see i wasnt getting enough light on 18/6 with the light i was using but those 2extra hrs on 20/4 i know the girls are getting what they need! Not so sure i wouldve had the same results had i left the autos on 18/6. It also told me that i wont make enough light wuth that lamp to run photoperiod strains, so until i upgrade its only autos in that tent!

 

[Mongoose]

Dli is super simple to figure out, even without a meter, you can get a ballpark idea from your light manufacturer stats. Its only become important to me recently because of the switch to LEDs and i just want to make sure im giving them enough light. Especially with the smaller wattage setup. There are plenty of DLI calculators online where you just type in your PPFD and your hrs of lights on and it gives your DLI. Calculating my DLI allowed me to see i wasnt getting enough light on 18/6 with the light i was using but those 2extra hrs on 20/4 i know the girls are getting what they need! Not so sure i wouldve had the same results had i left the autos on 18/6. It also told me that i wont make enough light wuth that lamp to run photoperiod strains, so until i upgrade its only autos in that tent!

Thanks King! DOA, a question for you. In your last series of posts of one of your grows, from awhile ago, I noticed that you used what appeared to be a pair of Migro Aray 2s in a 2x4' tent. If that is correct, can you guess the distance you kept between the plants, and the dimmer settings, if you dimmed at all, throughout the grow? I happen to have the same lights, and can match your distance(s) and do a PPFD & DLI simulation. Sorry to keep bugging everyone with this, but my concern is having my lights too close to the canopy, and having short thick stems develop, which is what I've always done in the past, and that is exactly what happened. I want to be reasonably sure I can get 420's and your stem elongations in the weeks before scrogging out. Thank you!

 

[KingRatt]

Hello @420autoflower , hows it growing friend? I am seeking some guidance from you. I know you like to setup your tents super cheap. Im moving my outdoor operation indoors and want to setup a 3x3 or even better a 4x4 but i want to do it in the cheap cheap! Any suggestions for tents, lights, and exhaust would help greatly, as i know youve sourced alot of great deals and you know what works and what doesnt. Any help Greatly Appreciated!!! Hope all is well. Thank you in advance!