Indoor Trying for efficiency: Dutch Passion Auto Lemon Kix

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Aloha there, here's the other grow journal I promised - two Lemon Kix in 60x60x160cm tents (2x2x5.3ft or so), after My tiny Forbidden Cherry journal.

These guys have been growing for precisely 60 days today, counting from the day I first took the seeds out of the fridge and put them into a cup with distilled water.

They appear to be two very different phenos, one tiny, rather on the Indica-side leaning - that has suffered my stupidity, and one pure, big, strong Sativa, that's also stupid and doesn't mind me.

I messed them up a bit in the early stages, due to (as far as I see it anyway) first over-, then underfeeding. They, especially plant A, got very yellow, and had to be rescued by adding some Canna Mono Trace Mix, before switching to stronger normal fertilization (without Mono etc.), and removing the dead leaves. Both recovered fully (?) within about a week, but still, stupid mistake. It appears the AFCs really love a strong feed, even early on - or there was some other reason. But so far, more fertilizer has always solved all problems I had with those plants.

Oh yeah and I messed up plant A a second time by insisting on trying to SCROG it while it was already too late for it - the plant was rather kind in dealing with it ok-ish, but that is something I'd definitely not recommend or do again. Live and learn.

Last but not least, I broke some branches on A and B, this being my first SCROGing attempt. But all, except for one on A, healed up fine. The one is the one held by the white string in the pictures.

As a matter of fact, the branch that I broke the second worst (imho) is now by far the fattest branch, and not just around the break but the entire branch - almost as fat as the main stem on B. So... interesting. Didn't know that... or maybe coincidence. Need to verify at some point.

As for the setup, I'm of course trying to follow (more or less) 420autoflower's method, just adapted for my needs. I read about the method too late, while they were already growing, so I topped them twice, but it doesn't seem to be much of an issue - except maybe for the smaller left one, plant A - who knows, maybe it would have gotten a lot bigger without the topping, that may have been a mistake for her. B is fine however. They've shared the same feed from day one; I checked the runoff, but that allowed for it since they were close enough.

First, my beloved old Mars Hydro lamps - not giving them up yet, they've served me well for many years and still yield heavily, when hung low and in a small space - perfect for SCROGs. They're supposedly 240W lamps, according to the sticker (48 5W LEDs), but the LEDs only get driven with slightly below 2W each, so it comes to 90W per lamp, aka per tent. That was a feature, not a bug, they said back then it was for higher efficiency... not sure if their 150W LEDs these days are actually 150W then or even lower wattage than mine???

Below the nets I added some 20W (?) Amazon craplights, just because I had them lying around not being used, and have no money to spend on extra lamps right now. So trying to see if they do anything at all, if moved very close.

Given the much smaller space, much lower wattage etc. this will get absolutely nowhere near what 420AF pulls of his plants - but it should allow me to optimize my space nicely, and I'm hoping for a personal record from plant B. Plant A will yield much, much, much less, but be done soon, so hey, there's that ;)

X02.jpg


Then, as for the plants - I only started taking pictures of them on day 32, and from day 36 on I took one every two days, of both plants - so you can follow along with the growth pretty nicely.

Plant A:

Day 32, immediately after second topping:
A32.jpg


Day 36, immediately after adding trace elements:
A36.jpg


Day 38, starting to get dark green leaves again:
A38.jpg


Day 40, immediately after removing some of the dead/dying leaves:
A40.jpg


Day 42, immediately after removing the rest of the dead/dying leaves:
A42.jpg


Day 44, right before applying LST:
A44.jpg


Day 46, right after schwazzing and SCROGing:
A46.jpg


Day 48, recovering, growing skyward again and filling back up:
A48.jpg


Day 50, after adding under-net-lighting and industrial (really high speed) PC fans; threw out old, clogged air stone for temporary replacement
A50.jpg


Day 52, after another generous round of leaf stripping:
A52.jpg


Day 54, supercropped joints are looking pretty thick:
A54.jpg


Day 56, buds starting to get thicker:
A56.jpg


Day 58, right after removing the support/SCROG-net - mostly just to see if that would work; I like to test and try stuff out:
A58.jpg


Day 60 (height 26cm above DWC pot):
A60.jpg


Oopsie, apparently I can only add 15 pictures per post - rest in the next one :)
 
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Plant A day 60 upskirt:

XA60.jpg


Plant B:

Day 32, immediately after second topping (I know that's not part of the 420AF method, I just didn't know of it yet then ;)):
B32.jpg


Day 36, immediately after adding trace elements:
B36.jpg


Day 38, leaves turning darker green again:
B38.jpg


Day 40, filling out a bit more:
B40.jpg


Day 42, after a medium-strength defoliation:
B42.jpg


Day 44, amount of leaves is now even higher than before cutting most of them off:
B44.jpg


Day 46, right after schwazzing and SCROGing:
B46.jpg


Day 48, recovering, growing skyward again and filling back up:
B48.jpg


Day 50, after adding under-net-lighting and industrial PC fans; threw out old, clogged air stone for temporary replacement
B50.jpg


Day 52, after another generous round of leaf stripping - the plant looks slightly sad in that picture but more than recovers within 2 days:
B52.jpg


Day 54, recovered after schwazzing:
B54.jpg


Day 56, canopy thickening above and below the net, RH always at 55% minimum, usually more - thus demanding another schwazzing soon:
B56.jpg


Day 58, right after another (3rd full) schwazzing - net almost entirely filled in (and around), keep miscounting but it's somewhere between 30 and 40 "heads" or future bud sites, or colas, or funsticks, or whatever you wanna call them, poking up now:
B58.jpg


Day 60 (height 35cm above DWC pot):
B60.jpg


Last picture in next post...
 
Snapping branches is very common when scrogging, usually on purpose when supercropping and such. But if the branch is just crushed and not severed you will have better luck. If you do happen to sever a big part of said branch, a little dab of honey on the wound along with some support will help. Honey is a natural anti fungal and antibacterial that helps in healing plant wounds. It can even be used to root clones.
 
@KingRatt Yeah, I was trying to do it the less destructive way, without messing up the "skin". Thanks for the note about the honey, never heard that one before... interesting, I'll give that a try next time it comes up.

As for SCROG/supercropping supports, I whipped up a very rudimentary, prototype-y thing on my 3D printer today, we'll see if and how well those work, I have 8 installed now... honestly, they shouldn't, they're THAT rudimentary - then again, I've seen stranger things, time will tell. I like to experiment :haha:

LA72_.jpg


Now, the Lemon Kix, unlike the poor cherries I abused, are LOVELY and I couldn't be happier with them.

I mean, honestly, those two plants are already among my top 10 personal favorites I've ever grown, easily.

Plant A, as I so passionately refer to it, is probably the smallest or at least, second smallest weed plant I've ever grown.

The very smallest was roughly the same size, but just a single "large" bud-on-a-stick, which was about half mold due to humidty and bouncing water droplets from the top-feed system I used back then... this one is the complete opposite.

You need an ultra widescreen to even fit it on fully. It's 27cm tall today, aka just shy of a freedom foot, but about twice as wide and strongly reminds me of someone...

Actually, I hereby officially rename "plant A" to "Arnie". He had a rough start but now he's putting on weight like nobody's business, makes me smile every time I look at him/her/it.

Arnie might actually just about be small enough (due to phenotype & nutrient deficiency at one point) to yield below the legal limit, at first I assumed I'd get only 10-20g off him... now, I'm not so sure anymore... can't wait for the weigh-in...

Arnold, day 62:

A62.jpg


Day 64:

A64.jpg


Day 66:

A66.jpg


Day 68:

A68.jpg


Day 70:

A70a.jpg


A70b.jpg


Day 72:

A72.jpg


LA72.jpg


She was on too strong a nutrient regime recently, I'm currently letting her get back down to normal, before seeing one more time how hard I can push her...

Can't quite tell when she will be done, my initial estimate was too low - she just keeps putting on weight. So I'll just sit back for now and wait.


EDIT: Forgot to mention - I removed the under-net-lighting and replaced the top light (one of my two "good" 90W Mars Hydro) with a cheap, 27€ 65W LED from Amazon, along with a 25W crappy LED UFO I still had lying around. Arnie is growing under the leftover lamps :biggrin:
 
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In the same vein, let's rename plant B to "Big Bertha". Trust me, she deserves her name just as much as Arnie does. Bertha has been a complete and total bitch to deal with, just due to her enormous growth, all the time - especially in terms of leaves that need schwazzing. She gets so thick and wet, I can't sleep anymore in the next room, due to how wet (and thus hot, when the dehumidifer kicks in, which is ALL THE TIME then) it gets.

Last schwazzing took 4 hours, the one before that 3 hours. If she's anything like her muscular sister-brother, she'll hopefully stop growing large fan leaves soon(ish).

But all that said, she's filling in / the tent out very nicely, and comparing my pictures to the ones I saw from 420AF's ADL grow, I have very, very high hopes for her. I might need to buy some extraction equipment to make any (legal) use of all the weed I imagine she'll soon be carrying. All depends on how thick the buds get of course, but I see a pretty good chance for large, thick buds, and plenty of them. Expecting 6-ish more weeks until harvest, maybe slightly more if she keeps filling in like Arnie, but maybe less if she's quicker.

Big Bertha, day 62:

B62.jpg


Day 64:

B64.jpg


LB64.jpg


Day 66:

B66.jpg


Day 68:

B68.jpg


XB68.jpg


Day 70:

B70a.jpg


B70b.jpg


XB70.jpg


Day 72 (today):
B72a.jpg


B72b.jpg


LB72.jpg


XB72.jpg


Now, today, I did something horrible - I supercropped her again, while already in flower, a cardinal sin... maybe?! However, nothing is true, everything is permitted - and I did indeed do the very same thing to Arnie a few weeks back (first supercropping though), since he was already too far ahead - and, well, Arnie grew like Arnie grew, so I feel like experimenting with Bertha as well. Doing so on 8 branches earned me roughly 10cm to lower the lamps above the - now mostly even again - canopy, which should, of course, itself result in a noticeably higher yield.

With the old lamps I use I find that 20cm above the canopy - with adequate airflow - is a good, safe distance, but getting to 15 yields more bud - if possible. The Noctua 200mm fans manage to create just about enough airflow, while making no audible noise, unlike the 4 industrial fans I have running for an hour every 3 hours to keep the plant itself somewhat dry, the leaves moving in the air for good circulation and the branches being slightly reinforced by the comparatively strong wind in there.

BB is now 57cm tall (actually 50 after my dastardly deeds of the day) and using 2 90W Mars Hydro lamps, as posted earlier, along with 2 crappy Amazon LED lights (20W-ish each) under the net.

And that's it for today, until next time :bighug:


EDIT: Haha, just... found this in my earlier post: "Oh yeah and I messed up plant A a second time by insisting on trying to SCROG it while it was already too late for it - the plant was rather kind in dealing with it ok-ish, but that is something I'd definitely not recommend or do again. Live and learn." ... the living part I do, the learning part, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhh...

EDIT: The clips work :D
 
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@KingRatt Yeah, I was trying to do it the less destructive way, without messing up the "skin". Thanks for the note about the honey, never heard that one before... interesting, I'll give that a try next time it comes up.

As for SCROG/supercropping supports, I whipped up a very rudimentary, prototype-y thing on my 3D printer today, we'll see if and how well those work, I have 8 installed now... honestly, they shouldn't, they're THAT rudimentary - then again, I've seen stranger things, time will tell. I like to experiment :haha:

View attachment 1734315

Now, the Lemon Kix, unlike the poor cherries I abused, are LOVELY and I couldn't be happier with them.

I mean, honestly, those two plants are already among my top 10 personal favorites I've ever grown, easily.

Plant A, as I so passionately refer to it, is probably the smallest or at least, second smallest weed plant I've ever grown.

The very smallest was roughly the same size, but just a single "large" bud-on-a-stick, which was about half mold due to humidty and bouncing water droplets from the top-feed system I used back then... this one is the complete opposite.

You need an ultra widescreen to even fit it on fully. It's 27cm tall today, aka just shy of a freedom foot, but about twice as wide and strongly reminds me of someone...

Actually, I hereby officially rename "plant A" to "Arnie". He had a rough start but now he's putting on weight like nobody's business, makes me smile every time I look at him/her/it.

Arnie might actually just about be small enough (due to phenotype & nutrient deficiency at one point) to yield below the legal limit, at first I assumed I'd get only 10-20g off him... now, I'm not so sure anymore... can't wait for the weigh-in...

Arnold, day 62:

View attachment 1734316

Day 64:

View attachment 1734317

Day 66:

View attachment 1734318

Day 68:

View attachment 1734319

Day 70:

View attachment 1734320

View attachment 1734321

Day 72:

View attachment 1734322

View attachment 1734323

She was on too strong a nutrient regime recently, I'm currently letting her get back down to normal, before seeing one more time how hard I can push her...

Can't quite tell when she will be done, my initial estimate was too low - she just keeps putting on weight. So I'll just sit back for now and wait.
Dontworry about legal limit, after you smoke enough(destroy) youll be down to legal limits lol! That arnie plant looks like shell be super tasty, good work!
 
@KingRatt I'll do my best to destroy as much as possible as fast as possible :d5: And thanks, the pictures don't quite capture it all too well, I always have to adjust colors via GIMP too, which makes everything look a bit weird... but (s)he really is a beaut, IMHO anyways.

At first I was (of course) not too happy with such a small plant, but now, having moved the more expensive LEDs over to BB, I just think it's extremely cool how Arnold's pulling through, and how heavy (s)he's getting... I have a ninth 3D-printed thingy holding her broken arm up btw, ditching the rope from the top and making the plant movable again - it's held for almost 36 hours now, hope it keeps going... that branch just will not heal, no matter how much time I give it. It's bandaged in duct tape, and then fixed in my clip thingy, and then bandaged in more duct tape just because I'm paranoid. Next time I'll try the honey :thumbsup: But no chance to get to it now without ripping the whole branch off.

@Lil Dab thanks for the love and the rep :bighug:
 
Right, quick update a little sooner than planned, but I wanted to show off a few things.

So as edited into the other post earlier, the clips seem to work so far. I have a bunch of improvements planned for them, some time later when I get to it so probably never, but for now they do the job and will stay on another 1-3 days to make sure the bent branches stay bent, but not so long as to restrict any growth. They move easy enough until they don't, to gauge how fat the stems have swelled and the clips need to be removed, or replaced with bigger ones if necessary.

Thanks to them, I was able to lower the lamps down to (in some places) no more than 10cm/4in (!) above the extremely even canopy, angled to keep it between 10-15cm on average, lower tops excluded of course. I'm expecting noticeable improvements in yield/efficiency here, but will probably have to go back to 15-20cm in the long run to not burn any bud once more fully formed.

I could have put in another net instead, sure, it's actually even in the pictures already - but that would make schwazzing her again a complete nightmare, so I won't do that to myself. That's why clips. Then the final (hopefully) 2-3 schwazzes will at least be doable without going completely insane.

Quick side note to new growers, DO NOT DO THIS, with most modern lamps and setups for 60x60 this would be way too close, manufacturers recommend roughly twice that distance, or more. But I'm comfortable doing dumb shit because I've seen the possible consequences and early warning signs often enough to know (mostly kinda) what I'm doing. The big ass fans help as well, and the modified fans inside the lamps that keep them cool and reasonably quiet. Also never modify your lamps, it's 230/110V in there, you might kill yourself for nothing. Just buy good lamps, they're all extremely cheap these days anyway. Used to spend more on a quality lamp reflector (with no lamp, or ballast, or cooling, or...) than a full high quality LED lamp costs these days.

HB74.jpg


Then as a reference for the discussion about under canopy lighting, I present "Shitty but bendable Amazon lights shoved directly under the plant to build the closest possible UCL with the lowest energy usage while being maybe hopefully highly efficient - in D Minor" or something.

LB74.jpg


And finally, I'd like to coin the phrase "tumbleweed" for this style of grow if nobody else has yet :D You might see why. I know 420AF's method originally does not include removing the lower leaves/branches in the middle, but for my small 60x60/2x2 tent and my grow room size, temps, RH etc., that is not an option unless I want to yield mostly mold.

B74.jpg


Wish I could just skip ahead 2 or even 4 weeks and see what she looks like then... but I have my suspicions :pop:
 
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