Indoor GreenBean's Grows

[Delps8]

GB:

This is my Blackstrap at Day 43. I didn't have any (known) stunting. My growth has been steady.

Why causes a short plant like mine? Is it because of my LST style? I topped and then bent of the main stem.

I ask this because I grow small plants (mostly) and sometimes I know it was something I did. I'm trying to work on the things where I don't what causes them.

Do you top or pull your plant down?

Signed,
Green Thumb Envy : )

View attachment 1555754

Hiya, exNavy. Good to see you here.

Quick comment re. your set up - I switched from my cheap, oil filled heater (that Amazon no longer sells) and went with the flat, panel-type heater that you're using. It's been in my tent for about a week and doing, pardon the pun, "yeoman's work" in my 2' x '4 tent. My grow is in an unfinished garage in Southern California and the average high for Jan, Feb, and Mar is 65° so that heater is going to be very useful. Thanks for providing that info in your thread - much appreciated.

Re. plant size for your setup vs Green Bean - there are tons of variables that a pedant would argue makes comparison invalid but I'm not (always) pedantic so…

Genetic variation is a factor but, based on my current level of understanding, I'd look at container size, light spectrum, and DLI being the other big influencers. The other factors - fertilizer, wind speed, CO2 levels, etc. - are, I'm assuming/thinking, similar enough and are each sufficiently close to optimal, that they are not constraints.

Just to check - you're growing in soil, right?

[time passes]

I've attached a screenshot of Bugbee's "nine parameters" - maybe you can run down that list and see where your grow differs from this one. That might help highlight the differences.

 

[Delps8]

Day 66! Everything is starting to fill in and stack now. Black Strap got some BEEF on her. It’s just that Mango is a monster, so she looks a little small.

View attachment 1555538View attachment 1555539View attachment 1555540View attachment 1555541View attachment 1555542View attachment 1555543
View attachment 1555546

I've been following along on this grow but in lurk mode. Just thought I'd add my tuppence about a couple of things.

Glad to see that you're getting the issue resolved with the driver for the light but Atreum hasn't covered themselves in glory over this. Sorry to hear about that. I think that 3200 is great value and recommend to other growers so it's a bit of a pisser to see them futzing around over a damned driver.

Great looking plants! When I saw that colas sticking up, it looked an awful lot like one of my previous Gorilla Glue grows where yield was through the roof. A big difference is that you were smart enough to put up a scrog net! I foolishly thought "Nah, I don't need a trellis for this" and I ended up having to tie colas to the top of the tent to stop them from falling over.

I get your "hands off" approach to growing. I have spent a lot of time futzing with an Inkbird controller to make sure VPD was as close as I could get it. No mas. After getting a power plug adapter for the Controller 69 from AC Infinity, now that my seedlings have roots that reach the res, I really don't have a need to do much anything in the tent until I top them in a couple of weeks. As much as I've enjoyed the last 23 months of growing cannabis, I'm really looking forward having to do minor changes to keep things on even keel.

 

[ExNavyInSTL]

You're welcome on the heater suggestion. It is slow to warm up but works great and it is ideal for the nighttime temp drops.

As for the other variables, my luck can't be that bad.

I think I am torn because one camp says to top and bend over and let those branches become equal colas. And I do a pretty good job at shaping the plant when it comes to that form of LST.

I'm trying to advance past being a Bonsai master. I am not growing for yield, so I want to get as good at growing our beloved plant. I do have one monster right now, but it was auto that turned out more Photo and Ruderalis. So it got an 8 week veg, before flipping it to 12/12.

In my mind, I feel that there is a step that I am skipping over. Granted, I don't want them too tall, but I would like to get over 2 feet tall.

I know Autos can be short in stature. My next grow is Photos, so we'll see then.

I'll keep asking questions in the forums and watching videos, I'm determined to get good at this. :smoking:

Hiya, exNavy. Good to see you here.

Quick comment re. your set up - I switched from my cheap, oil filled heater (that Amazon no longer sells) and went with the flat, panel-type heater that you're using. It's been in my tent for about a week and doing, pardon the pun, "yeoman's work" in my 2' x '4 tent. My grow is in an unfinished garage in Southern California and the average high for Jan, Feb, and Mar is 65° so that heater is going to be very useful. Thanks for providing that info in your thread - much appreciated.

Re. plant size for your setup vs Green Bean - there are tons of variables that a pedant would argue makes comparison invalid but I'm not (always) pedantic so…

Genetic variation is a factor but, based on my current level of understanding, I'd look at container size, light spectrum, and DLI being the other big influencers. The other factors - fertilizer, wind speed, CO2 levels, etc. - are, I'm assuming/thinking, similar enough and are each sufficiently close to optimal, that they are not constraints.

Just to check - you're growing in soil, right?

 

[ExNavyInSTL]

Like a knife in the belly when I read your words:

"... my previous Gorilla Glue grows where yield was through the roof."

This is my current Gorilla Glue (another Bonsai):

I am not truly complaining, she is all bud and almost every leaf is a sugar leaf.

However, no need for a trellis with this one. : )

Now, if I said this is her in a 100-gallon pot, she would be impressive.

Sorry for hijacking GreenBean.

When you said on another thread that you were also growing a Blackstrap I wanted to come and see if I finally might get "the one."

We'll see, she is certainly getting the love.

I've been following along on this grow but in lurk mode. Just thought I'd add my tuppence about a couple of things.

Glad to see that you're getting the issue resolved with the driver for the light but Atreum hasn't covered themselves in glory over this. Sorry to hear about that. I think that 3200 is great value and recommend to other growers so it's a bit of a pisser to see them futzing around over a damned driver.

Great looking plants! When I saw that colas sticking up, it looked an awful lot like one of my previous Gorilla Glue grows where yield was through the roof. A big difference is that you were smart enough to put up a scrog net! I foolishly thought "Nah, I don't need a trellis for this" and I ended up having to tie colas to the top of the tent to stop them from falling over.

I get your "hands off" approach to growing. I have spent a lot of time futzing with an Inkbird controller to make sure VPD was as close as I could get it. No mas. After getting a power plug adapter for the Controller 69 from AC Infinity, now that my seedlings have roots that reach the res, I really don't have a need to do much anything in the tent until I top them in a couple of weeks. As much as I've enjoyed the last 23 months of growing cannabis, I'm really looking forward having to do minor changes to keep things on even keel.

 

[Delps8]

You're welcome on the heater suggestion. It is slow to warm up but works great and it is ideal for the nighttime temp drops.

As for the other variables, my luck can't be that bad.

I think I am torn because one camp says to top and bend over and let those branches become equal colas. And I do a pretty good job at shaping the plant when it comes to that form of LST.

I'm trying to advance past being a Bonsai master. I am not growing for yield, so I want to get as good at growing our beloved plant. I do have one monster right now, but it was auto that turned out more Photo and Ruderalis. So it got an 8 week veg, before flipping it to 12/12.

In my mind, I feel that there is a step that I am skipping over. Granted, I don't want them too tall, but I would like to get over 2 feet tall.

I know Autos can be short in stature. My next grow is Photos, so we'll see then.

I'll keep asking questions in the forums and watching videos, I'm determined to get good at this. :smoking:

Yeh, that heater's great. It runs constantly because the garage is pretty chilly and the res is 68° (I need to get an insulated cooler for a res or, somehow, insulate the one that I've got) but it damned sure does the job,

Re. "bonsai" - yeh, what does that? LST will reduce height in the tent but doesn't impact length of the stems. The branches get long, they just grow sideways first. But, if you're at bonsai height, there's something else going on.

"I would like to get over 2 feet tall." - understood. One of those nine parameters…at least one of those nine parameters is driving that.

"My next grow is Photos, so we'll see then." - same here! Next month will be 2 years of growing and all five grows have been autos. One of the reasons I decided to go with a photo grow is that it will allow me to control influence the height of the plant. It's cut back on my electricity costs but there's also the idea that 12 hours of dark means there's less need to keep temps/RH/VPD at optimal levels.

 

[Delps8]

Like a knife in the belly when I read your words:

"... my previous Gorilla Glue grows where yield was through the roof."

This is my current Gorilla Glue (another Bonsai):

View attachment 1555766

I am not truly complaining, she is all bud and almost every leaf is a sugar leaf.

However, no need for a trellis with this one. : )

View attachment 1555767

Now, if I said this is her in a 100-gallon pot, she would be impressive.

"Like a knife in the belly"
Sorry 'bout that…
No harm intended.

Run through the nine parameters and something will stand out.

Sorry for hijacking GreenBean.

Agreed.

 

[GreenBean]

GB:
Do you top or pull your plant down?

Signed,
Green Thumb Envy : )

Don't worry about "hijack" I made this thread to discuss and learn. Whether people want to discuss, and maybe learn, is up to them and all good. If they just want to see photos, all good too.

I learn every day, and I learn from everyone and everything. Maybe I can learn from someone? Maybe they can learn something from me? Dunno. I hope. But I emphasis two FACTS:

1: Always learning. A day without learning something new is a day wasted. Whether it be about plants (I've been growing plants my whole life - mostly veggies). Or whether it be about...dunno...the climate in Peru. I want to learn something. Every day.

2: Let's see what happens! Let's see what happens is my mantra once I get to a point in everything. What happens if I quadruple top this pepper plant? What happens if I try to print this hoodie a new way? Let's see what happens!

Do I top or pull down my plants? Yes. Pretty much.

If you look back through this slog of a journal. I have topped every plant up until the last run, before this which was the Fastbuds Banana Purple. And though I quit weighing recently, that Banana filled 2, 1lb Grove bags.

So I just wanted see if I can/ could duplicate the results that I get with the topping/heavy manipulation that I had been doing, without so much. And seeing if I could get close, or beyond, on these last two grows.

Answer to that is yes. And it also depends.

But I think the most important thing with the plant. Any plant. Is to get out of it's way for a bit and let it do it's thing before you start to play with it.

Like in the beginning of my growing hobby. I couldn't wait to tie shit down. Top them at 10 days. 15 days. 20. Whatever.

And then over time, I learned to sort of let them show me what they wanted. And then from there approach what needs to be done. That whole path of least resistance thing.

So over time, I went from pinning everything down from the get go. To understanding that it's not a one size fits all thing. Same goes with topping.

I can get a really good result regardless. But I can get an even better result if I get out of the way.

So I started to tie them down less, early on. And let the plant get bigger. Maybe I just bend them over and let them go to stretch before I start to open the canopy and tie stuff down. And I got great results.

And then I decided to try to stop topping for a couple runs. And that was really hard for me to do. But I did. And my results were about the same at the least, and just as good at the better, and even better at the best.

So this latest run I tried to go even more hands off. Feed them. Let them go even more. Just open the canopy at the right times. I have been really busy so that worked out.

But even then, I didn't pay attention to what the plants wanted.

The Mango Smile, she's fine with it! Just bent her over and off she goes.

The Black Strap? Not so much. She will yield well. But could be way better. She wanted to be manipulated more, and needed to be.

So...does a sativa need less manipulation than an indica? I dunno. Sometimes? Maybe? I want to play with that more.

End of the day. You gotta let them tell you what they want and need. They don't care about what you want. If you try to force them, or force them too early then they will not give you what you want.

Every plant is different. So observation is alway key. And when you know how to observe what they want, and give them that. Then you can play Let's See What Happens and start to experimenting with juicing the nutes here and there. Or blasting the lights harder. Things like that.

As far as basic stuff:

I am running coco. My own DIY mix with perlite, vermiculite and a dash of good soil (for moisture retention) But I have grown monsters in soil. Inside and out. Just learning when and where to juice them. Or not. I feed one time a day. And many times throughout a grow, I will skip a day.

Good, EVEN light so nothing can hide in a dark corner anywhere. Don't care what light it is, but I want the bars to cover every inch of the tent.

Futzing around with VPD and such is all fun. But I really just shoot for 80F/60RH the entire grow. And make sure that I have plenty of air moving in flower. That's it - 80/60. I use a humidifier in veg. But rarely need it for flower. My temps are solid this time of year. If I thought it was too cold, I would run 24/0 for warmth. I run 18/6 exclusively FWIW.

I use my nutes and play with the ratios to see what they can take, or what they just don't need. And other than a little cal-mag for week one and two while they are on like 25-50% strength nutes. Every now and then a little silica. That's it. That is all they need.

PH between 5.8 and 6.2 the entire run. And I don't make that complex. If I mix a 5 gallon bucket of nutes tonight, I will PH to 5.8 and I know that tomorrow night it will be between 6.0-6.1. And then the bucket will be empty and I will do that again. So, I just check the PH a couple times a week and that is it. I maybe might spot check here and there to make sure.

 

[GreenBean]

175 Care Bears. Courtesy of Mr. Walter White.

 

[Delps8]

Don't worry about "hijack" I made this thread to discuss and learn. Whether people want to discuss, and maybe learn, is up to them and all good. If they just want to see photos, all good too.

I learn every day, and I learn from everyone and everything. Maybe I can learn from someone? Maybe they can learn something from me? Dunno. I hope. But I emphasis two FACTS:

1: Always learning. A day without learning something new is a day wasted. Whether it be about plants (I've been growing plants my whole life - mostly veggies). Or whether it be about...dunno...the climate in Peru. I want to learn something. Every day.

2: Let's see what happens! Let's see what happens is my mantra once I get to a point in everything. What happens if I quadruple top this pepper plant? What happens if I try to print this hoodie a new way? Let's see what happens!

Do I top or pull down my plants? Yes. Pretty much.

If you look back through this slog of a journal. I have topped every plant up until the last run, before this which was the Fastbuds Banana Purple. And though I quit weighing recently, that Banana filled 2, 1lb Grove bags.

So I just wanted see if I can/ could duplicate the results that I get with the topping/heavy manipulation that I had been doing, without so much. And seeing if I could get close, or beyond, on these last two grows.

Answer to that is yes. And it also depends.

But I think the most important thing with the plant. Any plant. Is to get out of it's way for a bit and let it do it's thing before you start to play with it.

Like in the beginning of my growing hobby. I couldn't wait to tie shit down. Top them at 10 days. 15 days. 20. Whatever.

And then over time, I learned to sort of let them show me what they wanted. And then from there approach what needs to be done. That whole path of least resistance thing.

So over time, I went from pinning everything down from the get go. To understanding that it's not a one size fits all thing. Same goes with topping.

I can get a really good result regardless. But I can get an even better result if I get out of the way.

So I started to tie them down less, early on. And let the plant get bigger. Maybe I just bend them over and let them go to stretch before I start to open the canopy and tie stuff down. And I got great results.

And then I decided to try to stop topping for a couple runs. And that was really hard for me to do. But I did. And my results were about the same at the least, and just as good at the better, and even better at the best.

So this latest run I tried to go even more hands off. Feed them. Let them go even more. Just open the canopy at the right times. I have been really busy so that worked out.

But even then, I didn't pay attention to what the plants wanted.

The Mango Smile, she's fine with it! Just bent her over and off she goes.

The Black Strap? Not so much. She will yield well. But could be way better. She wanted to be manipulated more, and needed to be.

So...does a sativa need less manipulation than an indica? I dunno. Sometimes? Maybe? I want to play with that more.

End of the day. You gotta let them tell you what they want and need. They don't care about what you want. If you try to force them, or force them too early then they will not give you what you want.

Every plant is different. So observation is alway key. And when you know how to observe what they want, and give them that. Then you can play Let's See What Happens and start to experimenting with juicing the nutes here and there. Or blasting the lights harder. Things like that.

As far as basic stuff:

I am running coco. My own DIY mix with perlite, vermiculite and a dash of good soil (for moisture retention) But I have grown monsters in soil. Inside and out. Just learning when and where to juice them. Or not. I feed one time a day. And many times throughout a grow, I will skip a day.

Good, EVEN light so nothing can hide in a dark corner anywhere. Don't care what light it is, but I want the bars to cover every inch of the tent.

Futzing around with VPD and such is all fun. But I really just shoot for 80F/60RH the entire grow. And make sure that I have plenty of air moving in flower. That's it - 80/60. I use a humidifier in veg. But rarely need it for flower. My temps are solid this time of year. If I thought it was too cold, I would run 24/0 for warmth. I run 18/6 exclusively FWIW.

I use my nutes and play with the ratios to see what they can take, or what they just don't need. And other than a little cal-mag for week one and two while they are on like 25-50% strength nutes. Every now and then a little silica. That's it. That is all they need.

PH between 5.8 and 6.2 the entire run. And I don't make that complex. If I mix a 5 gallon bucket of nutes tonight, I will PH to 5.8 and I know that tomorrow night it will be between 6.0-6.1. And then the bucket will be empty and I will do that again. So, I just check the PH a couple times a week and that is it. I maybe might spot check here and there to make sure.

Great summary!

 

[GreenBean]

Great summary!

And to think that I am on a sober kick right now (I do sober runs often, especially when I am working on big projects) otherwise it would've been longer.

End of the day, it's really about observation of a plant. And in the case of autos, it's also about reaction since you have a lot less time to recover.

Learn the basics and then once you see what you are doing, and how it is affecting a plant, start to figure out how you can manipulate them more.

Little things like juicing the nutes, you can see how they are taking it within a day or two. Same with lighting. Is my plant drooping a couple hours before lights out? Then that would tell you that you can probably dial the light down a bit.

But things like tying them down, topping. It's a little HARD not to do it too soon IMHO, because it is sorta fun right? But I think a lot of people, including MYSELF, we sort of get ahead of ourselves. And to be fair, I still do it.

Sorta like...I think it was Jimi Hendrix that said "When it comes to playing guitar, you read the book, you learn the book. Then you throw it away". But you need to understand the underlying basics of anything.

I think...if someone wants to figure out where they might be having issues...try to resist growing like 20 different strains at a go. And grow like one strain. Except grow 2-3 plants of it. You can futz with one, and maybe wait on futzing with the other. And then at the end of it, you can draw comparisons. And even then, all plants pretty much have deviations and behavior patterns. But at least you know more coming out, than when you went in.

My first auto, I didn't futz with at all. I just let it go. The breeder said that it was a real compact plant. But mine got like 5 feet tall, like an Xmas tree with one large cola. Probably about 3 oz. Then I grew it again, except I pinned it down a lot more, and I got like a double yield.

And then on my 3rd grow I tried a different strain. Tied it down, topped it, and I got a 13oz yield.

And pretty much NOBODY would believe it was an auto. So that is when I went on my quest to prove that autos can really yield. But...I started with one strain and saw how it reacted to different things. Then went to another and so on.

And then after awhile of just messing with plants and observing what I was doing, I started to dial back more to find the middle ground.

Another novel for you.