Giving self-pollination a try with AKR - Journal

[GCase]

Howdy all.

Always listen to the pros. Read this the other day in Rosental's book and just found the except online:

Breeding feminized plants
By Ed Rosenthal - Tuesday, October 19 2004
ASK ED
What happens when feminized plants get polinated?
What would happen if a feminized plant was fertilized by a male plant or if a feminized plant fertilized itself with female pollen?
Troy,
DB

A feminized plant is a plant grown from a seed resulting from pollen from a female plant. There are several ways to induce a female plant to produce male flowers. The pollen has only female genetics. All the seeds are "feminized".

A plant grown from feminized seed fertilized by a male will produce both male and female plants. If the feminized plant was induced to produce male flowers and then pollinated itself or another plant the pollen would contain only female genetics so the seeds would be feminized.

One problem that may occur over generations of feminizing plants is that you may be inadvertently selecting for hermaphroditism. When plants are induced to produce male flowers, the ones that are most likely to respond to the process, whether chemical, hormonal, light or age techniques are used, are the plants with the most tendency to hermaphroditism. Each time you use a feminizing technique you are inadvertently selecting for hermaphroditism. Each generation increases the chances of producing hermaphrodite plants.

Feminizing is best used to produce the final generation of plants, those that are to be planted for bud. These can also be used as part of an elaborate breeding strategy using both feminized and non-feminized plants.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

One problem that may occur over generations of feminizing plants is that you may be inadvertently selecting for hermaphroditism. When plants are induced to produce male flowers, the ones that are most likely to respond to the process, whether chemical, hormonal, light or age techniques are used, are the plants with the most tendency to hermaphroditism. Each time you use a feminizing technique you are inadvertently selecting for hermaphroditism. Each generation increases the chances of producing hermaphrodite plants.

Feminizing is best used to produce the final generation of plants, those that are to be planted for bud. These can also be used as part of an elaborate breeding strategy using both feminized and non-feminized plants.

Exactly. So the genes aren't technically changing. You are just breeding and picking the plants that made balls more easily. That means that using a clone to pollinate the plant you got it from wouldn't help the situation. The only thing that would, would be something along the lines of selecting the plants that took the longest to form pollen sacks as the pollen donors.

Either way, any feminization is bad according to that response you quoted which makes sense. Unfortunately there is no way to get seeds of certain strains of autos that are only sold as fems, without suffering from this problem.

 

[Epic Genetics]

Exactly. So the genes aren't technically changing. You are just breeding and picking the plants that made balls more easily. That means that using a clone to pollinate the plant you got it from wouldn't help the situation. The only thing that would, would be something along the lines of selecting the plants that took the longest to form pollen sacks as the pollen donors.

ok one last post

NO thats not what that means

the only seeds i have from a natural hermie that havent produced hermie offspring are the seeds from a separate plant that got hit with the hermie pollen , both sister clones , the seeds from the actual plant/clone that threw the hermie pollen ALL produced hermies

the stressed plant passes on that stress , be it mildly or w/e you want to call it , but you can times that greatly due to it being compounded when it pollinates itself

i hope that clears things up for you

 

[yodabuds]

@b0b Amen!

@everythinghazey please though with out a bit of a science background it can be tedious reading but you need to skin threw here, will lead you in the right directions:
http://www.cannabism.info/downloads... - Advanced Study - Robert Connell Clarke.pdf

:Sharing One:

 

[steelrat]

Really interesting discussion. I'd like to try having a photoperiod mother and doing some cloning, one day, but i don't think i'll ever get this deep, but it's great to read about.

Thankfully you're here to clear things up Bob, you cranky old fart ;+}


steely

 

[EverythingsHazy]

@b0b Amen!

@everythinghazey please though with out a bit of a science background it can be tedious reading but you need to skin threw here, will lead you in the right directions:
http://www.cannabism.info/downloads... - Advanced Study - Robert Connell Clarke.pdf

:Sharing One:

I read the entire breeding sction of that book a couple weeks ago actualy lol..

@b0b...You don't have to comment anymore if you don't want, up to you, but there is still a lot of cool information about this stuff.
So if you want to keep participating in this discussion, I have anoher question (as usual lol)... when you say "natural hermie" you aren't referring to cs induced balls correct? If not, then that IS what I said about the natural hermie gene being made stronger through breeding.
And also, are you saying that the clones from the plant that made the pollen produced hermies? That would also make sense seeing as they are the same as the plant that made the pollen.

the only seeds i have from a natural hermie that havent produced hermie offspring are the seeds from a separate plant that got hit with the hermie pollen , both sister clones , the seeds from the actual plant/clone that threw the hermie pollen ALL produced hermies

 

[Epic Genetics]

I read the entire breeding sction of that book a couple weeks ago actualy lol..

@b0b...You don't have to comment anymore if you don't want, up to you, but there is still a lot of cool information about this stuff.
So if you want to keep participating in this discussion, I have anoher question (as usual lol)... when you say "natural hermie" you aren't referring to cs induced balls correct? If not, then that IS what I said about the natural hermie gene being made stronger through breeding.
And also, are you saying that the clones from the plant that made the pollen produced hermies? That would also make sense seeing as they are the same as the plant that made the pollen.

natural hermie = hermie , c.s. treated plants are not hermies

what im saying is , i had a room , there were multiple plants/sister clones , the closest one to a power bar with a lighted switch that was covered with black tape which had come loose but not off got a dull bit of light , that light stress caused it to throw a few balls , the rest remained 100 % female , the seeds from the 100% females have all grown as females so far and none have hermied , the seeds from the plant that produced the hermie pollen and selfed itself have ALL grown as hermies , and thats under ideal conditions , no light leaks or stress

the hermie issue was compounded 10 times over in the seeds/plants that came from the selfed plant

now PLEASE we have hijacked this thread , can we PLEASE let the OP move forward and possibly comment when and if the OP says or asks something ?

if you would like to continue the way this thread has progressed while being hijacked PLEASE start a new thread

peace

 

[BillyMadison]

Day 6

Hope everyone had a good weekend!!

Nothing special going on here but took a few pictures for journal purposes :thumbs:

I'm glad people are getting involved and discussing self pollination.

I'd also like to take this time to give Evol a special thanks for his involvement and contribution of information.

View attachment 348989 Popped out of soil a day after being planted.
View attachment 348990 Opening up cotyledons
View attachment 348991 She went to the pub, got drunk and came back looking like this. :dunno:
View attachment 348992 I think I might LST that cotyledon (lol) moving on...
View attachment 348993 Temps have been a steady 73-78F (lights on 24/0 ATM) RH 50-60%

The soil was drying up so I just watered her a little bit.


EDIT - Just read everyone contribution.

"I know with out a shadow of a doubt the best route to go is to reverse one and pollinate another - It will be a lot more stable. " Post #3

Just as a reminder.

This is a "Experiment" not a "Recommendation"

I'm curios to see the results. I know with out a shadow of a doubt I cant take this one AKR that I have and reverse it. I don't even know if I will get seeds

Will the Fem/Hermie Ratio be 75/25 50/50 25/75 - idk - maybe 100% herm.

If I can get 10 femmed beans out of this I'll be stoked.

This is Test 1

Next year I will be doing Test 2 (Reverse one, pollinate another)

Much love AFN FAM

Just want to thank everyone again - you know - reading through years of post you can see the "pros" answering the same questions over and over again for years. They really take their time to helps others - especially when it comes to saving people time and effort. Till' next time.


edit - thought about a comment I made earlier - I'm not reversing the plant, will be reversing a branch or two and pollinating the bud sites with that pollen...

 

[Epic Genetics]

@ everything hazy , i can see your deleted posts (thank you , it saved me time) , if you were to actually read what was typed instead of just spewing out your inexperienced (you admitted yourself you have not done this yet) babble you would of noticed the hermie mentioned from the power bar light stress was a clone , meaning it wasnt an auto

looking forward to your progress Billy M

the biggest thing you will notice next year is more pollen/more seeds

peace

 

[EverythingsHazy]

@ everything hazy , i can see your deleted posts (thank you , it saved me time) , if you were to actually read what was typed instead of just spewing out your inexperienced (you admitted yourself you have not done this yet) babble you would of noticed the hermie mentioned from the power bar light stress was a clone , meaning it wasnt an auto

looking forward to your progress Billy M

the biggest thing you will notice next year is more pollen/more seeds

peace

I deleted my posts because cannabis growers are the most stubborn people when they believe things. Same as the ones who think clones of clones cause genetic degrading. That's fine. Not going to argue about it anymore, which is why I deleted my posts. Not so you can continue to get ruder and ruder in your responses. I didn't disrespect you so don't disrespect me.



Also, Yes, yes that post is about selecting for the gene vs genetic deformation.

One problem that may occur over generations of feminizing plants is that you may be inadvertently selecting for hermaphroditism. When plants are induced to produce male flowers, the ones that are most likely to respond to the process, whether chemical, hormonal, light or age techniques are used, are the plants with the most tendency to hermaphroditism. Each time you use a feminizing technique you are inadvertently selecting for hermaphroditism. Each generation increases the chances of producing hermaphrodite plants.

There is a reason it's worked to produce 100% Females for so many people including HighLowGrow on RIU with an Akr actually. Same as the plant this topic is about.