Establishing Credibility Guidelines for Breeders

[BII]

Make your own crosses, f2 or whatever and give seeds away so everyone has more seeds than they need to. Nothing wrong with making seeds, if the seed is yours do what you want with it.
For the question of who is a real breeder I say everyone that make seeds but if you breed for sale and don't sell regular seeds it's a bit weird, many don't sell any regular auto strain though.

So a breeder is anyone that makes some seeds. Yes, anyone dealing the the genetics, pollen, harvesting seeds, etc. to me clearly is a 'breeder.'

But then we seem to need a new term here, to cover those active within the commercial seed supply chain. Many companies already cited as 'breeders' don't make seeds themselves; some are even virtual companies. For example, are Fast Buds and Seed Stockers 'breeders?' Is a company is publicly selling branded auto seeds with unique genetics bred by/obtained from a variety of sources and contracts out for seed production or is selling for a growers cooperative, is that company a 'breeder?'

 

[Son of Hobbes]

It remains unclear (to me) what is a 'breeder?' Many people so far appear to actually be talking about commercial seed sellers. Is a breeder any individual making seeds; anyone -selling their own branded seeds; a professional (does 'breeding' for a living); or are breeders only established/legal companies ( those that end-users buy seeds from)?

Breeder "credibility" and "guidelines" -- Normally, these things are taken care of by trade and professional associations. Whom- or whatever 'breeders' are, they should form their own trade and professional associations and conferences; and make available related detailed directories.

All fair points for sure! It would seem finding some common ground in what we (as the community) defines as some of these things would then surely benefit everyone, wouldn't it?

Personally, I define "seed banks" as those that carry the genetics of others. Oregon Elite Seeds, Attitude, SeedsHereNow, etc. Not necessarily those that physically breed (crossing plants.)

I'd say breeders are anyone that creates a genetic cross. Hobby breeding, professional breeding, etc. "Commercial" means "to engage in commerce," so I don't think we're far off by labeling anyone selling or has intent to sell their genetic crosses as "a commercial breeder." If someone is just looking to trade genetics or have people try out their crosses, that's a bit different than those pushing sales all day long (which happens online a lot.)

I mentioned Strainly.io earlier, that's essentially on online seed exchange/marketplace (haven't seen a lot of sites like it.)

For example, are Fast Buds and Seed Stockers 'breeders?'

Subsidiary companies are very commonplace in cannabis, so again fair point. We were talking about white labeling of products awhile back; that certainly could tie in as well.

Then there are individual resellers. Should they be considered "a bank" in essence? If they aren't selling their own stock, but reselling others? Some of these guys get permission to do it, some people just sell and don't even blink an eye. I've seen a few people on Facebook that just run reproduction on popular strains and sell their own fems. Shrug.

And then you get all these new growers, fresh legal growers, people that have never tried autos before, getting some weird jenky genetics from so-and-so that was soooooooo recommended on Facebook, and they get just pure shit. And now that's their attitude and opinion of autoflowers. So that's what we're trying to help reduce and eliminate.

 

[Disburped]

So a breeder is anyone that makes some seeds. Yes, anyone dealing the the genetics, pollen, harvesting seeds, etc. to me clearly is a 'breeder.'

But then we seem to need a new term here, to cover those active within the commercial seed supply chain. Many companies already cited as 'breeders' don't make seeds themselves; some are even virtual companies. For example, are Fast Buds and Seed Stockers 'breeders?' Is a company is publicly selling branded auto seeds with unique genetics bred by/obtained from a variety of sources and contracts out for seed production or is selling for a growers cooperative, is that company a 'breeder?'

Excuse me I don't understand fully. I know nothing about virtual companies but it's pretty simple in my little world.
If Fast Buds or Seed Stockers cross NL with NL, f2, inbred or whatever they are entitled to call the seeds Northern Light, the result is NL from Fast Buds or NL from Seed Stockers. That is how it's done and I see no way of changing it without patent and patent is just plain wrong. Some weed strains are protected by farmers rights or something but it is unusual, like big pharma strain unusal and you know how it is, if us regular dudes get a hold of it we will make F2.

 

[Son of Hobbes]

A breeder don't need to do anything else than make seeds.
They should give a reasonable description so people know what to expect from the seeds, that is all. It's ok to say you crossed strain X with strain Y and got a bunch of seeds and call it XY. It's a plant it's not like anyone really invented something and have to prove something.

With legalization pushing forward, I think consumers are going to start demanding more information (and personally, I think they should demand more information. This is medicine for a lot of people and there are people that will use that against you to make a buck.) Also as we loom closer to federal legalization, I think that's EXACTLY what's going to happen, people are going to tighten up like a drum and try to protect their genetic work. A lot of people thought Phylos was going to work in their favor as a legal guard on their genetics for example. And there's more than just Phylos out there in terms of genetic registry.

To add to it even further, sometimes that are state requirements for genetics (like in Colorado, you're working within the system for what you can purchase, grow, etc.) You can't just take Dinafem seeds and grow them for rec/med sale, although there appears to be some clever work-arounds for it (which is why/how Colorado gets a lot of new genetics, brought in from outside sources, mislabeled to beat the "system," and now you have your fire (that someone else probably breed lol!)

 

[BII]

Excuse me I don't understand fully. I know nothing about virtual companies but it's pretty simple in my little world.
If Fast Buds or Seed Stockers cross NL with NL, f2, inbred or whatever they are entitled to call the seeds Northern Light, the result is NL from Fast Buds or NL from Seed Stockers. That is how it's done and I see no way of changing it without patent and patent is just plain wrong. Some weed strains are protected by farmers rights or something but it is unusual, like big pharma strain unusal and you know how it is, if us regular dudes get a hold of it we will make F2.

My point is that (from what I know) Fast Buds acquires seeds/genetics from US strain developers and contracts for its seed production in Spain. If making seeds, developing new strains, is breeding, they aren't breeders. Similarly, isn't Seed Stockers a cooperative selling for Spanish seed developers/growers? These may well be 'virtual companies,' in the sense of just buying and selling.

 

[Disburped]

With legalization pushing forward, I think consumers are going to start demanding more information (and personally, I think they should demand more information. This is medicine for a lot of people and there are people that will use that against you to make a buck.) Also as we loom closer to federal legalization, I think that's EXACTLY what's going to happen, people are going to tighten up like a drum and try to protect their genetic work. A lot of people thought Phylos was going to work in their favor as a legal guard on their genetics for example. And there's more than just Phylos out there in terms of genetic registry.

To add to it even further, sometimes that are state requirements for genetics (like in Colorado, you're working within the system for what you can purchase, grow, etc.) You can't just take Dinafem seeds and grow them for rec/med sale, although there appears to be some clever work-arounds for it (which is why/how Colorado gets a lot of new genetics, brought in from outside sources, mislabeled to beat the "system," and now you have your fire (that someone else probably breed lol!)

Allright, I follow what's going on by listening to american grow podcasts (great stuff btw) and it is fascinating what is going on but this is some really weird stuff. It makes me a bit worried that growers can't buy a pack of Dinafem seeds and sell it as Dinafem strain X from grower Y, after all many breeders only sell feminized seeds so what's the purpose of it if growers can't grow it for weed?
Growers allways find a way to pass the rules, it is good after all, that will never change. Legalization will ultimately make any genetic control futile cause too much and growers go illegal. But this is more of a temporary legality bump cause genetic control is futile. I remember when joint doctor started sell his lowryder 1, he got so little credit on the internet but I smoked it and liked it, to me that work was the real thing and I made F2 of his mix seed packs, he was like a hero to me then and still is, I thought my F2 micro grow pollenchuncking was more like a tribute to him than me stealing someones work. People did not ask much about the original breeder so I took as much credit as I could, ofcourse.

 

[Machamillion]

My point is that (from what I know) Fast Buds acquires seeds/genetics from US strain developers and contracts for its seed production in Spain. If making seeds, developing new strains, is breeding, they aren't breeders. Similarly, isn't Seed Stockers a cooperative selling for Spanish seed developers/growers? These may well be 'virtual companies,' in the sense of just buying and selling.

seed stockers is Dutch passion no?

 

[Trichome farmer]

seed stockers is Dutch passion no?

there a sister company of DP and they do source seeds from a network of breeders in spain but they will tell you that no smoke and mirrors

 

[SOOTDAWG]

It remains unclear (to me) what is a 'breeder?' Many people so far appear to actually be talking about commercial seed sellers. Is a breeder any individual making seeds; anyone -selling their own branded seeds; a professional (does 'breeding' for a living); or are breeders only established/legal companies ( those that end-users buy seeds from)?

Breeder "credibility" and "guidelines" -- Normally, these things are taken care of by trade and professional associations. Whom- or whatever 'breeders' are, they should form their own trade and professional associations and conferences; and make available related detailed directories.

I totally agree with you but who is stepping up and doing that and what is better than the people that are using the product calling for this to come forth and then starting the process and AFN leading the charge on it......This is the start of something small that could get bigger into a Bible later....Different chapters for many people to provide input this is not an overnight thing......... Why we would like to get some established breeders with transparency input on this all

 

[Disburped]

My point is that (from what I know) Fast Buds acquires seeds/genetics from US strain developers and contracts for its seed production in Spain. If making seeds, developing new strains, is breeding, they aren't breeders. Similarly, isn't Seed Stockers a cooperative selling for Spanish seed developers/growers? These may well be 'virtual companies,' in the sense of just buying and selling.

I understand now, thanks.
We have all sorts of operators from bagseed growers to government sponsored conservation projects and we all use the same genetic pool that really don't belong to us but to future generations and to a plant that is millions of years old, it's like way beyond ice age old, it's literally dinosaur age old and currently the genepool belongs to everyone, it's cultural heritage. The seeds though, the physical seed, it belongs to the owner of the seed so if someone wants to make F2 or refine to F5 and call it their own special cookies kush it's perfectly fine though I also understand that for a breeder who spend decades to produce a strain it may be a bit frustrating but the rules of the game was allways the same, that is how the north american strains came to be, by someone pollinating bagseeds more or less. People should support their breeders of choice and if it is Seed Stockers it's fine cause it may just be an indication the seeds are too expensive to begin with. Weed seeds are super expensive when you think about or compare to hemp seeds made for sowing, a lot of work has been going into that breeding too. The coconut is the largest seed in the world, weigh a kilo and is imported, it cost less than half the price of a weed seed, with legalization we have to accept that the herb become mainstream and that anyone can make seeds and sell it. I do make seeds from other herbs too, it's a normal process in the art of horticulture, every grower should make some regular seeds now and then, it's satisfying and how it is supposed to be. Wait until big agriculture begin to produce seeds by the tonnes, can't stop it if it's legal, neither can big acriculture stop us from taking their grain and make F2 cause we will pollenchuck illegal if we have to. I hope regular seed production become a normal part of the growing culture and we all relax a bit more and enjoy that the plant survived millions of years without human intervention. So many plants have gone extinct and this one is a bit messed up, it's allmost all female, most strains can't survive without humans spraying collodial silver.