EC understanding ..help please.

[Dr Fluff]

So do the meters read different scales? Here is mine

hi @leafy86

Good question!

The post above is quite long but the information you are looking for is in the post.
I have extracted the info you want to know.

Your meter says "TDS" (Total Dissolved Solids) and "EC" (Electrical Conductivity)

The TDS part is as follows - The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS – Total Dissolved Solids.
So TDS is the 500 scale.

If anyone ever quotes CF (Conductivity Factor) although this would be quite rare as it is not widely used on forums, all you have to do is divide by 10 and the answer will be your EC reading.
For example a CF reading of 14 would be an EC reading of 1.4

 

[GeorgeCloney]

The biggest and by far issue people have growing in coco is a calcium def'c.
99% of the problem begins when preparing the coco and not conditioning the Cation exchange in the coco.

If this were done properly, and every time,..coco can be reused many times over.

People buy the cheapest crap available on the internet and expect miraculous results without reading what they're buying .

There is nothing wrong with the cheap stuff, just that you need to condition it first (AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM LATER ON).
Most nute companies include sufficient calcium in their mix.
Some plants are bigger hogs than others, and coco does loose some of the calcium during decomposition.

So to fix this, people now over do it with the calmag.

Bingo, then we're playing doggie catches his tail.
Is it a cal issue, a mag issue because the calcium locked out the mag???????

I use Mega Crop.
The mix is terrible as far as I'm concerned.
There are big balls of something, little balls of something else,...
When I wrote to Greenleaf last week, they said to use an AVERAGE amount of balls in a teaspoon when making a 1 gallon mix.
WTF, is an average amount.??

So I grind down the balls and mix in the rest of the powder, and now have a uniform mixture.
This is where liquide nutes have an advantage.
But liquide nutes require more work without generating better results,....and at a much higher cost to the end user.

The other issue is people do not properly monitor their feed PH once made.
Add to this soil changes PH, and the best most people do is measure run off, which is ok, but not perfect.

The best approach possible is measuring PH right at the roots with either an ACCURAT8 PH wand, or a Bluelab soil ph pen.

 

[leafy86]

The biggest and by far issue people have growing in coco is a calcium def'c.
99% of the problem begins when preparing the coco and not conditioning the Cation exchange in the coco.

If this were done properly, and every time,..coco can be reused many times over.

People buy the cheapest crap available on the internet and expect miraculous results without reading what they're buying .

There is nothing wrong with the cheap stuff, just that you need to condition it first (AND THIS IS THE PROBLEM LATER ON).
Most nute companies include sufficient calcium in their mix.
Some plants are bigger hogs than others, and coco does loose some of the calcium during decomposition.

So to fix this, people now over do it with the calmag.

Bingo, then we're playing doggie catches his tail.
Is it a cal issue, a mag issue because the calcium locked out the mag???????

I use Mega Crop.
The mix is terrible as far as I'm concerned.
There are big balls of something, little balls of something else,...
When I wrote to Greenleaf last week, they said to use an AVERAGE amount of balls in a teaspoon when making a 1 gallon mix.
WTF, is an average amount.??

So I grind down the balls and mix in the rest of the powder, and now have a uniform mixture.
This is where liquide nutes have an advantage.
But liquide nutes require more work without generating better results,....and at a much higher cost to the end user.

The other issue is people do not properly monitor their feed PH once made.
Add to this soil changes PH, and the best most people do is measure run off, which is ok, but not perfect.

The best approach possible is measuring PH right at the roots with either an ACCURAT8 PH wand, or a Bluelab soil ph pen.

That is really helpful info.
The problem in the pics though I had with last grow aswell (in soil) so I'm puzzled what it could be. I've constantly calibrated ph pens even using 2 to make sure one ain't wrong. All my grows have been OK u till last 2 where I have had this problem.

 

[leafy86]

@GeorgeCloney @arty zan
Hi guys. I was just thinking I've never really had any problems u till the last 2 grows and like I said last one was soil this one coco. I mentioned that I only started using fabric pots the last 2 grows But I didn't mention that is also when I got my new light. I went from 2 cheap LEDs to a Mars Hydro 3000......Im thinking could I need to add a little something more to the feed now as the light is a lot stronger.. Hence the problem? Just a thought.

 

[leafy86]

Epsom salts are excellent as a muscle soak in the bath!
It can be used to sort out Magnesium def.
1 tablespoon per gallon or 1 teaspoon per liter will do the trick.
Put epsom salt in small vessel and add warm water to it to dissolve it then add to main quantity of water.
I like to use it as a foliar spray if a plant shows mag def, the magnesium gets to where it is needed quicker that being transported through the plant via the roots.
Honestly though in coco, which is a calcium hog, locking it up so it is not available to the plant I recommend using a proprietary Cla/Mag solution.
This is especially so if you are growing under LEDs.
I would also advise to buy a Cal/Mag with added iron as iron is often overlooked and is very important for plant growth.

Tried 2 teaspoon in 3litres and it took my EC from 0.4 to 1.4 hmmm. Its normal epsom salt nothing added

 

[GeorgeCloney]

The usual mix is 1 teaspoon in 1 gallon or 4 liters

 

[leafy86]

The usual mix is 1 teaspoon in 1 gallon or 4 liters

Thanks @GeorgeCloney .did you see the message I put about the light?

 

[leafy86]

Thanks @GeorgeCloney .did you see the message I put about the light?

Found this also. Could it be my problem.

What Causes Cannabis Leaves to Get Dry or Crispy? | Grow Weed Easy

GrowWeedEasy.com will teach anyone with any budget how easy it is to grow their own cannabis.

www.growweedeasy.com

 

[Dr Fluff]

coco

Some years ago I moved from soil to coco.

Although coco looks kinda like soil it is in fact a hydroponic substrate .

Coco is constantly breaking down. As large fibers of coco break down in the pots they expose new surface areas of the coco fiber.

This also exposes new cation exchange sites that will take the Ca and Mg from your nutrient solution and reduce the amount available to the plant.
Coco breaks down due to a variety of factors, but you can expect it to need the most Cal Mag supplement early in the grow. The fresh coco will have the greatest potential to break apart and this is hastened by the roots of growing plants.

Young plants spend much of the energy pushing their roots through the coco. As they do so, they contribute to breaking it down and create an ongoing need for additional Ca and Mg to be added. Later in the grow, as plants are flowering, the coco will have become more stable and as a result it will need less Cal Mag supplement.

This is helpful, as Bloom Boosters can step in and fill the EC quota that CalMag can surrender.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance.

Coco has some tricky features when it comes to hydroponics nutrients and absorption. Most coir contains lots of potassium (as coco breaks down it releases more potassium which then locks up Ca & Mg), and it transfers some to your crops. Coir locks up magnesium and calcium and the only thing that defeats the lock-up is to add calcium and magnesium so your hydroponics plants can get enough of these two essential elements.

Some manufacturers pre-charge their coir with calcium and magnesium so you don’t have to. If your coir is not pre-charged, when initially soaking your compressed coco or watering pre-hydrated coir, add Cal-Mag to your water.

It is advisable to bu quality coco which has been proper washed and buffered but you will still need to have some Cal/Mag on hand.

In coco young seedlings need feed from day 1 but a seed can go week or so without nutrient but this can put it under stress.

Different people say different thing on the strength a seedling can take in coco some go low such as 0.6 EC, I use 1.0 EC and get along fine.

As with all thing read up and research your subject as much as possible, not all sources will agree but it give you a good idea where the middle ground will be.

Read journals here at AFN that grow in coco and look for exceptional grows you like the look of and see what techniques and measurements they use!

By doing this you will learn from the best!

The are a lot of Cal/Mags on the market and they aren't all created equal some are straight Cal/Mag ,Some add Iron (I Like these) and other will have a load of micronutrients, there are even some which are specific to the phases of grow ie veg & bloom. However they will give you Cal/Mag which is the most important thing here.

When reading journals people will let you know which brand they buy or you can ask them and they will let you know!

Make sure you also fertigate (fertilise + irrigate) using coco specific nutrients at the correct concentration at the correct PH.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance.

Best to avoid coc0 bricks as they are unbuffered and need washing/rinsing, some people use them because they are cheap but can be a lot of work to make them usable.

You get what you pay for and I always use aged, buffered and proper washed coco.

1. Choose coco that has been correctly treated and is of a consistent quality in both chemistry and physical structure.
2. Use coco that has been properly aged to maximize the efficiency and quality of the product.
3. Select coco that has been correctly balanced through a buffering process tailored to the characteristics of individual batches of product.
4. The availability of a nutrient designed to feed the plant and to manage and adjust the continuously decomposing coco medium.

​

LED Light

Mars Hydro Ts 3000

Mars Hydro TS 3000 PAR Chart

Mars Hydro TS 3000

The Mars Hydro is designed for a 4' x 4' (120 CM x 120 CM) area in the bloom phase but will light a 5' x 5' (154 CM x 154 CM) area in the veg phase.
For veg phase hang @ 24" (60 CM)
For Bloom phase hang @ 18" (45 CM)
Hanging closer than the above values mean you risk giving your plants light stress.
The PAR will be highest in the centre of you grow space and diminishes towards the edges of the grow space as you can see in the PAR chart (@ a height of 18")

​

This is the PAR chart for the Mars TS 3000 for veg phase hung @24" (60 CM)
Hanging LED grow light is important as not all LED grow lights are hung at the same heights due to how they are designed to be operated.

Any queries on using Mars Hydro LEDs then just give Marshydro a shout, she is a lovely person and very helpful and she is in forum.

Nutrients

In coco it is best to use "Coco specific nutrients" and follow the feeding chart.

Always follow the nutrient quantity advice for each weeks feed.

Add nutrients to you water in the way they have been designed to be used. For example Add part "A" first then part "B" etc.

Allow the nutrients to sit for 30 mins before PHing, this allow the nutrient to stabilize.

Make sure it has been thoroughly mixed.

If using powder based feeds, dissolve in a little warm water first which aids it to dissolve. Keep stirring until there are now granular particles, then mix thoroughly in to your water.

Remember to use Cal/Mag especially in early phase of the grow. Cal/Mag issues often turn up at week 3 (around the time a lot of autoflowers ( but not all) move in to the bloom phase).

Some growers will create their own feeding regimes, which deviate from the manufacturer's instructions, this is not advisable for new growers but in time you may become more knowledgeable and more confident in you growing skill that you might wish to do so but be careful, you could muck up a grow if you do!

Pots

Using fabric pots and airpots are great for "root pruning" and avoid the issue caused by soild pots which can become root bound.

I don't think the pots are your problem.

They say you can over water coco but this isn't necessarily the case, if you keep watering and then add more water then less air gets to the roots.

Remember that in the veg phase that this is the time you roots are doing the most growing and to do that healthily they need oxygen.

Cannabis like a wet/dry cycle to grow optimally, this means letting then dry out after each fertigation.
Alot of growers will lift their pots and feel the weight, after fertigation the will be heavy a day or two later they will feel lighter.

Coco likes to to be feed each watering.

Synopsis

Always use good quality coco, washed, aged and pre-buffered from a reputable manufacturer.

Use Cal/Mag as directed on the bottle. Especially in the veg phase but basically through the whole grow.

Use coco specific nutrient from a reputable manufacturer.

Follow the directions for you nutrients.

Mix well and allow to settle before PHing

PH to the correct levels for coco in each phase of growth, some fluctuation can be useful to allow all nutrient to be available but only withing the guidelines.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance. work up slowly though you grow.

Keep nutrient within the PPM/EC range advised by your nutrient manufacturers, if you don't know which scale your nutrient manufacturer uses, check their website or send them an Email. They will be happy to let you know because you are using their nutrients and as such you are a valued customer.

Hang your light at the height the manufacturer specifies, for each phase of the grow.
Use the correct sized light for the space you grow in.

Have adequate ventilation and air flow in order to give your plants as much CO2 as the require and at a temperature they like.In general cannabis plants grow best at temperatures between 20–30°C (70–85°F) during the day. Growers tend to agree that the ideal temperature is around 25°C (or roughly 75°F). At night, cannabis plants like slightly cooler temperatures of roughly 17-20°C (62-68°F).

Don't over water/ over feed

Allow the plants to have a wet/dry cycle

Fabric / airpots are good for allowing oxygen to the roots and in stopping them becoming root bound, by air pruning.

Any queries with any of the products you use check manufacturers websites ie for feed charts ect or send them an email on how to use their product at the optimum rate.

I hope that answers your questions and helps get the best from your grow!

All the best

Arty

​

 

[leafy86]

coco

Some years ago I moved from soil to coco.

Although coco looks kinda like soil it is in fact a hydroponic substrate .

Coco is constantly breaking down. As large fibers of coco break down in the pots they expose new surface areas of the coco fiber.

This also exposes new cation exchange sites that will take the Ca and Mg from your nutrient solution and reduce the amount available to the plant.
Coco breaks down due to a variety of factors, but you can expect it to need the most Cal Mag supplement early in the grow. The fresh coco will have the greatest potential to break apart and this is hastened by the roots of growing plants.

Young plants spend much of the energy pushing their roots through the coco. As they do so, they contribute to breaking it down and create an ongoing need for additional Ca and Mg to be added. Later in the grow, as plants are flowering, the coco will have become more stable and as a result it will need less Cal Mag supplement.

This is helpful, as Bloom Boosters can step in and fill the EC quota that CalMag can surrender.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance.

Coco has some tricky features when it comes to hydroponics nutrients and absorption. Most coir contains lots of potassium (as coco breaks down it releases more potassium which then locks up Ca & Mg), and it transfers some to your crops. Coir locks up magnesium and calcium and the only thing that defeats the lock-up is to add calcium and magnesium so your hydroponics plants can get enough of these two essential elements.

Some manufacturers pre-charge their coir with calcium and magnesium so you don’t have to. If your coir is not pre-charged, when initially soaking your compressed coco or watering pre-hydrated coir, add Cal-Mag to your water.

It is advisable to bu quality coco which has been proper washed and buffered but you will still need to have some Cal/Mag on hand.

In coco young seedlings need feed from day 1 but a seed can go week or so without nutrient but this can put it under stress.

Different people say different thing on the strength a seedling can take in coco some go low such as 0.6 EC, I use 1.0 EC and get along fine.

As with all thing read up and research your subject as much as possible, not all sources will agree but it give you a good idea where the middle ground will be.

Read journals here at AFN that grow in coco and look for exceptional grows you like the look of and see what techniques and measurements they use!

By doing this you will learn from the best!

The are a lot of Cal/Mags on the market and they aren't all created equal some are straight Cal/Mag ,Some add Iron (I Like these) and other will have a load of micronutrients, there are even some which are specific to the phases of grow ie veg & bloom. However they will give you Cal/Mag which is the most important thing here.

When reading journals people will let you know which brand they buy or you can ask them and they will let you know!

Make sure you also fertigate (fertilise + irrigate) using coco specific nutrients at the correct concentration at the correct PH.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance.

Best to avoid coc0 bricks as they are unbuffered and need washing/rinsing, some people use them because they are cheap but can be a lot of work to make them usable.

You get what you pay for and I always use aged, buffered and proper washed coco.

1. Choose coco that has been correctly treated and is of a consistent quality in both chemistry and physical structure.
2. Use coco that has been properly aged to maximize the efficiency and quality of the product.
3. Select coco that has been correctly balanced through a buffering process tailored to the characteristics of individual batches of product.
4. The availability of a nutrient designed to feed the plant and to manage and adjust the continuously decomposing coco medium.

​

LED Light

Mars Hydro Ts 3000
View attachment 1179861

Mars Hydro TS 3000 PAR Chart
View attachment 1179864​

Mars Hydro TS 3000

The Mars Hydro is designed for a 4' x 4' (120 CM x 120 CM) area in the bloom phase but will light a 5' x 5' (154 CM x 154 CM) area in the veg phase.
For veg phase hang @ 24" (60 CM)
For Bloom phase hang @ 18" (45 CM)
Hanging closer than the above values mean you risk giving your plants light stress.
The PAR will be highest in the centre of you grow space and diminishes towards the edges of the grow space as you can see in the PAR chart (@ a height of 18")

View attachment 1179880
​

This is the PAR chart for the Mars TS 3000 for veg phase hung @24" (60 CM)
Hanging LED grow light is important as not all LED grow lights are hung at the same heights due to how they are designed to be operated.

Any queries on using Mars Hydro LEDs then just give Marshydro a shout, she is a lovely person and very helpful and she is in forum.

Nutrients

In coco it is best to use "Coco specific nutrients" and follow the feeding chart.

Always follow the nutrient quantity advice for each weeks feed.

Add nutrients to you water in the way they have been designed to be used. For example Add part "A" first then part "B" etc.

Allow the nutrients to sit for 30 mins before PHing, this allow the nutrient to stabilize.

Make sure it has been thoroughly mixed.

If using powder based feeds, dissolve in a little warm water first which aids it to dissolve. Keep stirring until there are now granular particles, then mix thoroughly in to your water.

Remember to use Cal/Mag especially in early phase of the grow. Cal/Mag issues often turn up at week 3 (around the time a lot of autoflowers ( but not all) move in to the bloom phase).

Some growers will create their own feeding regimes, which deviate from the manufacturer's instructions, this is not advisable for new growers but in time you may become more knowledgeable and more confident in you growing skill that you might wish to do so but be careful, you could muck up a grow if you do!

Pots

Using fabric pots and airpots are great for "root pruning" and avoid the issue caused by soild pots which can become root bound.

I don't think the pots are your problem.

They say you can over water coco but this isn't necessarily the case, if you keep watering and then add more water then less air gets to the roots.

Remember that in the veg phase that this is the time you roots are doing the most growing and to do that healthily they need oxygen.

Cannabis like a wet/dry cycle to grow optimally, this means letting then dry out after each fertigation.
Alot of growers will lift their pots and feel the weight, after fertigation the will be heavy a day or two later they will feel lighter.

Coco likes to to be feed each watering.

Synopsis

Always use good quality coco, washed, aged and pre-buffered from a reputable manufacturer.

Use Cal/Mag as directed on the bottle. Especially in the veg phase but basically through the whole grow.

Use coco specific nutrient from a reputable manufacturer.

Follow the directions for you nutrients.

Mix well and allow to settle before PHing

PH to the correct levels for coco in each phase of growth, some fluctuation can be useful to allow all nutrient to be available but only withing the guidelines.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance. work up slowly though you grow.

Keep nutrient within the PPM/EC range advised by your nutrient manufacturers, if you don't know which scale your nutrient manufacturer uses, check their website or send them an Email. They will be happy to let you know because you are using their nutrients and as such you are a valued customer.

Hang your light at the height the manufacturer specifies, for each phase of the grow.
Use the correct sized light for the space you grow in.

Have adequate ventilation and air flow in order to give your plants as much CO2 as the require and at a temperature they like.In general cannabis plants grow best at temperatures between 20–30°C (70–85°F) during the day. Growers tend to agree that the ideal temperature is around 25°C (or roughly 75°F). At night, cannabis plants like slightly cooler temperatures of roughly 17-20°C (62-68°F).

Don't over water/ over feed

Allow the plants to have a wet/dry cycle

Fabric / airpots are good for allowing oxygen to the roots and in stopping them becoming root bound, by air pruning.

Any queries with any of the products you use check manufacturers websites ie for feed charts ect or send them an email on how to use their product at the optimum rate.

I hope that answers your questions and helps get the best from your grow!

All the best

Arty

​

Helps a lot yea thanks although had problem in soil last grow aswell. I'm stumped lol. I noticed in the soil I was watering every 5 days instead of 3 which I would usually be doing during flower so all I can think of is that I've been letting the get to dry last grow and this one. Loads of helpful info you have gave me though thanks a lot.