EC understanding ..help please.

[leafy86]

Helps a lot yea thanks although had problem in soil last grow aswell. I'm stumped lol. I noticed in the soil I was watering every 5 days instead of 3 which I would usually be doing during flower so all I can think of is that I've been letting the get to dry last grow and this one. Loads of helpful info you have gave me though thanks a lot.

Also I must contact canna as Im trying the canna nutes that are recommended with canno coco plus (A and B) but I haven't used no calmag apart from when I pre soaked the coco and I seen in the A and B there is cal and mag and there guide doesn't have calmag on it but best to check I suppose. As for the light I have been following there guides there and was thinking one out of the four plants is a lot better than the other 3 so it couldn't have been that.

 

[Dr Fluff]

If you don't want to add Cal/Mag for fear of messing up the your nutes by it raising the EC, you can foliar feed it. Then you can use your nutes as directed.
Follow direction on the Cal/Mag they will give foliar feeding advice and if not email them!
Coco Plus is good coco i used it for years.
Letting any substrate get too dry is as bad as too wet.
Keep persevering, this isn't a single person on site that hasn't learned by making mistakes, it is part of the journey.
One day it will be you helping others and giving advice.
Learning the hard way can be frustrating but in doing so it gives you greater knowledge, as long as you learn from it!

 

[GeorgeCloney]

We have to be carefull in saying coco in brick form is no good.
I use Cannacoco brand for a reason.
Its $20 Canadian, needs no buffering and is garbage free.
So you get what you pay for.
@arty zan did a lot of cut and paste from the coco for cannabis website, which recommends buffering at a rate of 7ml per gallon of water (done twice).
This wasteful and unnecessary.
Once is plenty.
The problem with this advice is the use of GH calmag which will cause terrible nute lock out because of the excessive amount of calcium.
People are paranoid about calcium def'c.
Most people over do it with the calcium , causing issues with the nutes and then wonder why the plant stopped hrowing.
There is a much better chance of having ph related issues in coco, than calcium.
Be preoccupied by the ph more than calcium.
All nutes contain enough calcium to give you plenty of warning of a calcium def'c.

 

[Dr Fluff]

We have to be carefull in saying coco in brick form is no good.
I use Cannacoco brand for a reason.
Its $20 Canadian, needs no buffering and is garbage free.
So you get what you pay for.
@arty zan did a lot of cut and paste from the coco for cannabis website, which recommends buffering at a rate of 7ml per gallon of water (done twice).
This wasteful and unnecessary.
Once is plenty.
The problem with this advice is the use of GH calmag which will cause terrible nute lock out because of the excessive amount of calcium.
People are paranoid about calcium def'c.


Most people over do it with the calcium , causing issues with the nutes and then wonder why the plant stopped hrowing.
There is a much better chance of having ph related issues in coco, than calcium.
Be preoccupied by the ph more than calcium.
All nutes contain enough calcium to give you plenty of warning of a calcium def'c.

My apologies I meant ad the word "Cheap" in reference to coco bricks. I however thoroughly advised to use reputable companies, did I not?

I encouraged the use of companies which supply the facts, that their coco is aged , buffered and washed, which is heavily stressed thought my post, is it not?

I use compressed coco, but it comes in small pucks rather than the brick form but it is from a reputable company, it is washed , aged and buffered and i love it!

Using advice from the internet which has my own personal advice dispersed through is not a crime and i stand by what I say, I am happy to cut and paste from articles I have read and used in the past, there is no problem with that!

Call me out if you like but I stand by what I posted and I won't be intimidated!

I also use my own experience through out as well but because I take time to reply as fully as I can, I don't necessarily have time to write an essay from scratch each and every time.

I research tirelessly, something for which i am known for in the forum and something which most people can't be bothered to do!

There are plenty of staff that will back me up on this, as this isn't my first rodeo!

Please don't think that i am stepping on your toes because that is not my intention.

I am no Jonny come lately & have been growing for long enough to know my onions.

I am am an ex member of The High Team, Auto Warriors, Global Mod & Sub Admin, here at AFN as well as modding other forums.

I have plenty of experience and am a well known member here, something which my reaction score shows.

Furthermore, I mentioned in my post "not all Cal/Mags are created equal" ,did I not?

I advised on doing research and reading journals and asking other growers, what they used if you saw them getting good results, did i not?

If you are looking for absolutes , there aren't any, we all grow in different ways and use different products and so we use best fit analogies and recommend doing as much of your own research as you can.

I don't wish to get in a tit for tat with anyone about this or that, in fact I point blank refuse to!

All I can do is give the best advice I can and so far I haven't had any complaints, so I must be doing something right!

Cal def can and does occur in coco, I am not paranoid of Calcium def but to not be aware of the fact that the break down of coco especially in the early part of the grow, which releases potassium which then does lock up calcium and that amendments then need to be used when it occurs, in order to avoid deficiencies.

Prevention is better than cure but all the while being judicious with the quantities used, go to far and then you end up in cure territory.

I think I gave good advice on PHing coco and PHing in different phases of growth, did I not?

At no point did I mention GH Cal/Mag!

That all i have to say on the matter and I hope we can rub along nicely without calling the other out and creating a stir.

I hope we are of an understanding on this, AFN is about being helpful and being friendly to all members and that is how I also wish to proceed.

All the best to you and have yourself a great day

Arty

 

[GeorgeCloney]

@arty zan
There was a complete misunderstanding about your cut and paste.
Coco for cannabis have a lot of excellent information.
The comment about brick coco...
Newer growers could interpret the meaning of ALL brick coco is crap....that was my point.
As for your credentials Arty , I am nobody to question your credibility.
So I want to make it clear that by no means was I out to insult you.
We're good?
GC

 

[leafy86]

We have to be carefull in saying coco in brick form is no good.
I use Cannacoco brand for a reason.
Its $20 Canadian, needs no buffering and is garbage free.
So you get what you pay for.
@arty zan did a lot of cut and paste from the coco for cannabis website, which recommends buffering at a rate of 7ml per gallon of water (done twice).
This wasteful and unnecessary.
Once is plenty.
The problem with this advice is the use of GH calmag which will cause terrible nute lock out because of the excessive amount of calcium.
People are paranoid about calcium def'c.
Most people over do it with the calcium , causing issues with the nutes and then wonder why the plant stopped hrowing.
There is a much better chance of having ph related issues in coco, than calcium.
Be preoccupied by the ph more than calcium.
All nutes contain enough calcium to give you plenty of warning of a calcium def'c.

Im using the canna coco plus. It's ready to go just wet ain't it? Not even planning on reusing it as I would rather just pay the £15 whatever it is for a new bag.

 

[Marshydro]

coco

Some years ago I moved from soil to coco.

Although coco looks kinda like soil it is in fact a hydroponic substrate .

Coco is constantly breaking down. As large fibers of coco break down in the pots they expose new surface areas of the coco fiber.

This also exposes new cation exchange sites that will take the Ca and Mg from your nutrient solution and reduce the amount available to the plant.
Coco breaks down due to a variety of factors, but you can expect it to need the most Cal Mag supplement early in the grow. The fresh coco will have the greatest potential to break apart and this is hastened by the roots of growing plants.

Young plants spend much of the energy pushing their roots through the coco. As they do so, they contribute to breaking it down and create an ongoing need for additional Ca and Mg to be added. Later in the grow, as plants are flowering, the coco will have become more stable and as a result it will need less Cal Mag supplement.

This is helpful, as Bloom Boosters can step in and fill the EC quota that CalMag can surrender.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance.

Coco has some tricky features when it comes to hydroponics nutrients and absorption. Most coir contains lots of potassium (as coco breaks down it releases more potassium which then locks up Ca & Mg), and it transfers some to your crops. Coir locks up magnesium and calcium and the only thing that defeats the lock-up is to add calcium and magnesium so your hydroponics plants can get enough of these two essential elements.

Some manufacturers pre-charge their coir with calcium and magnesium so you don’t have to. If your coir is not pre-charged, when initially soaking your compressed coco or watering pre-hydrated coir, add Cal-Mag to your water.

It is advisable to bu quality coco which has been proper washed and buffered but you will still need to have some Cal/Mag on hand.

In coco young seedlings need feed from day 1 but a seed can go week or so without nutrient but this can put it under stress.

Different people say different thing on the strength a seedling can take in coco some go low such as 0.6 EC, I use 1.0 EC and get along fine.

As with all thing read up and research your subject as much as possible, not all sources will agree but it give you a good idea where the middle ground will be.

Read journals here at AFN that grow in coco and look for exceptional grows you like the look of and see what techniques and measurements they use!

By doing this you will learn from the best!

The are a lot of Cal/Mags on the market and they aren't all created equal some are straight Cal/Mag ,Some add Iron (I Like these) and other will have a load of micronutrients, there are even some which are specific to the phases of grow ie veg & bloom. However they will give you Cal/Mag which is the most important thing here.

When reading journals people will let you know which brand they buy or you can ask them and they will let you know!

Make sure you also fertigate (fertilise + irrigate) using coco specific nutrients at the correct concentration at the correct PH.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance.

Best to avoid coc0 bricks as they are unbuffered and need washing/rinsing, some people use them because they are cheap but can be a lot of work to make them usable.

You get what you pay for and I always use aged, buffered and proper washed coco.

1. Choose coco that has been correctly treated and is of a consistent quality in both chemistry and physical structure.
2. Use coco that has been properly aged to maximize the efficiency and quality of the product.
3. Select coco that has been correctly balanced through a buffering process tailored to the characteristics of individual batches of product.
4. The availability of a nutrient designed to feed the plant and to manage and adjust the continuously decomposing coco medium.

​

LED Light

Mars Hydro Ts 3000
View attachment 1179861

Mars Hydro TS 3000 PAR Chart
View attachment 1179864​

The Mars Hydro is designed for a 4' x 4' (120 CM x 120 CM) area in the bloom phase but will light a 5' x 5' (154 CM x 154 CM) area in the veg phase.
For veg phase hang @ 24" (60 CM)
For Bloom phase hang @ 18" (45 CM)
Hanging closer than the above values mean you risk giving your plants light stress.
The PAR will be highest in the centre of you grow space and diminishes towards the edges of the grow space as you can see in the PAR chart (@ a height of 18")

View attachment 1179880
​

This is the PAR chart for the Mars TS 3000 for veg phase hung @24" (60 CM)
Hanging LED grow light is important as not all LED grow lights are hung at the same heights due to how they are designed to be operated.

Any queries on using Mars Hydro LEDs then just give Marshydro a shout, she is a lovely person and very helpful and she is in forum.

Nutrients

In coco it is best to use "Coco specific nutrients" and follow the feeding chart.

Always follow the nutrient quantity advice for each weeks feed.

Add nutrients to you water in the way they have been designed to be used. For example Add part "A" first then part "B" etc.

Allow the nutrients to sit for 30 mins before PHing, this allow the nutrient to stabilize.

Make sure it has been thoroughly mixed.

If using powder based feeds, dissolve in a little warm water first which aids it to dissolve. Keep stirring until there are now granular particles, then mix thoroughly in to your water.

Remember to use Cal/Mag especially in early phase of the grow. Cal/Mag issues often turn up at week 3 (around the time a lot of autoflowers ( but not all) move in to the bloom phase).

Some growers will create their own feeding regimes, which deviate from the manufacturer's instructions, this is not advisable for new growers but in time you may become more knowledgeable and more confident in you growing skill that you might wish to do so but be careful, you could muck up a grow if you do!

Pots

Using fabric pots and airpots are great for "root pruning" and avoid the issue caused by soild pots which can become root bound.

I don't think the pots are your problem.

They say you can over water coco but this isn't necessarily the case, if you keep watering and then add more water then less air gets to the roots.

Remember that in the veg phase that this is the time you roots are doing the most growing and to do that healthily they need oxygen.

Cannabis like a wet/dry cycle to grow optimally, this means letting then dry out after each fertigation.
Alot of growers will lift their pots and feel the weight, after fertigation the will be heavy a day or two later they will feel lighter.

Coco likes to to be feed each watering.

Synopsis

Always use good quality coco, washed, aged and pre-buffered from a reputable manufacturer.

Use Cal/Mag as directed on the bottle. Especially in the veg phase but basically through the whole grow.

Use coco specific nutrient from a reputable manufacturer.

Follow the directions for you nutrients.

Mix well and allow to settle before PHing

PH to the correct levels for coco in each phase of growth, some fluctuation can be useful to allow all nutrient to be available but only withing the guidelines.

Coco needs a pH range of 5.6–5.8 in vegetative growth (young grow likes it slightly more acidic) and a pH range of 5.8–6.0 in bloom if you want acceptable performance. work up slowly though you grow.

Keep nutrient within the PPM/EC range advised by your nutrient manufacturers, if you don't know which scale your nutrient manufacturer uses, check their website or send them an Email. They will be happy to let you know because you are using their nutrients and as such you are a valued customer.

Hang your light at the height the manufacturer specifies, for each phase of the grow.
Use the correct sized light for the space you grow in.

Have adequate ventilation and air flow in order to give your plants as much CO2 as the require and at a temperature they like.In general cannabis plants grow best at temperatures between 20–30°C (70–85°F) during the day. Growers tend to agree that the ideal temperature is around 25°C (or roughly 75°F). At night, cannabis plants like slightly cooler temperatures of roughly 17-20°C (62-68°F).

Don't over water/ over feed

Allow the plants to have a wet/dry cycle

Fabric / airpots are good for allowing oxygen to the roots and in stopping them becoming root bound, by air pruning.

Any queries with any of the products you use check manufacturers websites ie for feed charts ect or send them an email on how to use their product at the optimum rate.

I hope that answers your questions and helps get the best from your grow!

All the best

Arty

​

Thanks for intro.

 

[Dr Fluff]

Thanks for intro.

My pleasure @MarshydroTina
You do a great job helping members using your lights!

I hope you are well and enjoying the spring blossoms and longer days.

 

[leafy86]

Didn't turn out to bad in the end.