This is a slippery slope. These are plants. Grown naturally and you can not patent nature. It is also medicine. One that each patient can provide for themselves. To say one COMPANY owns any one kind or strain of a plant is dangerous. Think pharmaceutical companies. While breakthroughs are made we must remember the culture these plants have come from and respect that. Grow your plants, produce seeds, sell them/give them away. Use the name the botanist who created the strain gave it but let people know the seeds are from your plant.
Breeding etiquette
- Thread starter Steel_Reserve
- Start date
I dunno, other may disagree.. But what I am understanding from most of the posts in here, breeding is open source... Kind of like Linux.
Noif someone took a strain say automazaar and just made copies of them, and nothing else, that's called a ripper and a thief! If you buy a seed and than decide to use that as part of a cross or what have you than yes, it's yours you own it do with it as you please, but to just copy and sell someone else's hard work is just plain wrong, so not sure if that what you meant?
I just came upon a book called Marijuana Botany, it is VERY easy to find the PDF of online for free, I think it should be required reading for anyone that wants to breed and let's their creations out.. Even mad cross or things that you will only you for yourself you still got to be very careful and use some caution, as us "hobby" breeders could and will become a detriment to a our so beloved herb. We all need to start acting a bit more responsible with all of this.. I am getting threw the book, it's not the easiest of reading but with a science background it's not hard, and for the layman you may not grasp the exact meaning of things but you will get idea, so enough ranting on a soapbox from the greatest of offenders who is now trying to reform themselves, me
:stylez rasta smoke: they have a huge section of the book in the stickies for the past year I have failed to notice or read..,
I don't see the problem ethically as long as you don't change the name and claim it as your own or something like that. You buy the seeds, grow the bud, breed the seeds...
Once you release genetic plant stock people will clone it or propagate seeds and plants for the masses. It's the way plants have survived!
You don't have to be the genetic creator of, say, Champagne Grapes, or Granny Smith apples to sell or propagate and distribute them under that name.
Breeders are becoming attracted in part to autofem seeds i think because it combats the loss in revenue that cloning hit them with. I'm breeding seeds for medical patients in CA and I will neither change the name to be a thief, nor change the name to somehow maintain my integrity, nor will I deny patients this medicine or fail to inform them of the genetic lineage to the best of my ability.
In fact, I prefer not to completely rename my own crosses. For example, my Purple AK x Easyryder isn't called "Purple Easyryder". The PAK is a PAK x PAK back cross and I feel that strain is impressive enough to deserve it's own specification in the strain's name when offering seeds to those in need.
This is like the Australian Bastard story, if you don't want your seed spread then don't spread it! As soon as you hand out three non-fem seeds you've potentially cut yourself out, and even with two fem seeds and some CS someone could continue the line on their own without you...
In theory the Strain Hunters and people like them (Arjan's crew) are the only folks doing real breeding - hunting out landrace strains nobody has ever seen, taking them from their natural environment and breeding them with similar stock of yours. If I buy some of DJ Short's Blueberry and some White Widow and breed them, what are people's rules on the next name? I say only Blueberry Widow is acceptable. White Berry could be confused with Berry White, or possibly Blueberry x White Rhino. I sure as hell wouldn't go and call it "Horfv's Berry" just because I let the two plants to the nasty and drop beans.
Sorry, super blazed on sfv og kush, gdp and raspberry kush and I'm ranting. There's just no controlling it, no matter what. If you're novice like me, give due respect and props to the parents and their breeders. If you're reselling existing strains don't act like you created it, and be sure to breed selectively to do the strain justice as you pass it forth. If you're a master breeder, step your game up and keep the new strains coming, and make sure your genetics are noteworthy enough that people will seek you out over the reproducers.
Unless any of us are breeding with strains that nobody has a name for, however, we're all really just continuing the work of breeders before us. I for one am grateful for the work done by others that allows us to all smoke the fine quality herb we have today.
Keep it up everybody, keep it lit and keep it real. Westside. Lol
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Lol yeah thats what I was trying to say props
Plant breeding isn't being God, Nature, whatever you choose to call it. We don't own these plants as a species. Nobody says you can't buy a male and a female Greyhound, breed them and call the offspring Greyhounds. Everyone in fact will agree they are Greyhounds, just like if someone handed me some Sour D I'd know it off the bat. The question about your Greyhounds is really, is the next breeder skilled enough to carry on the name of the breed without tainting it by breeding for looks over temperament, to still use dog breeding as an analogy.
Maintain your pedigree, peeps! Lol
That is only thing I was referring to... It is wrong to take someone's product thEy made with a lot
Of hardwork, marketing, etc... It's like a handbag that is replicated to look like a Coach and even is labeled as such... That is stealing profit and someone's property.... Now would it be ok if someone did a small modification to the purse (ie. simple cross) and you name that purse something other than coach or inspired by coach in my eyes is fine...
A big difference between working plant seeds you own to make your own unique creation vs just doing a
Seedrun on a strain and turn around and sell them keeping the profits...sort like mp3's etc everyone copies and shares them... They are doing it freely....blah I'm smoked out and rambling but MOST DEFINITELY agree with calling a cross by the genetics it's made up of and nothing else until you work that strain for a few generation and begin to stabilize it... Than at that point I think it
Deserves it's own name if you want to do that...
Can you imagine you worked hard for years and years on strain and than sold it, and come to find out the person you sold it to turns around and begins selling the same product under the exact same name even using the breeders name (ie op's DP automazaar) and sold them for $10 cheaper, with the breeder now making no money or sales as they were undersold of their same product... I think that is just plain beat....
:style rasta smoke:
Edit: Lol my point in trying to make was put very eloquently by weedoshi. :thumbs:
I suck sometimes expressing my self in the written form
When we purchase a seed, we theoretically "own" that seed. What we do with that seed is within our discretion. But using that seed to produce more seeds (copying/ripping) and then selling these seeds, isn't considered ethical. Many breeders have worked for countless years to stabilize and produce amazing strains. Sometimes I even feel bad for them knowing someone is going to rip their strain. Breeders deserve all the money they get, regardless of the high-turnover in the seed business. When you work for 5-10 years on 1 strain, you'll expect a lot of money back from it.
Yodabuds put it together well.
There's controversy to this subject but there's also a fine line. A discernible fine line at that..
As the fella above me said - when you buy the seed, you own it. Do what you want with it.. pollen chuck a thousand crosses, grow them all. Give them to friends, who cares. Do not sell them without full credit going to the original breeder and a disclosure of their lineage. If you're going to do it, do it right. If you reproduce the same strain and further it's generation you have no right at all to sell that seed. If you're an artist I can't come to your art show, buy a repro and take it home and print a bunch more of repros and sell them. It's unethical.. why? Because it's theft.
As the fella above me said - when you buy the seed, you own it. Do what you want with it.. pollen chuck a thousand crosses, grow them all. Give them to friends, who cares. Do not sell them without full credit going to the original breeder and a disclosure of their lineage. If you're going to do it, do it right. If you reproduce the same strain and further it's generation you have no right at all to sell that seed. If you're an artist I can't come to your art show, buy a repro and take it home and print a bunch more of repros and sell them. It's unethical.. why? Because it's theft.
Is Dutch Passion the company that created the original White Widow, Bluberry, Skunk, and many other strains they are currently selling? Obviously not.
Except for a few exceptions, like Ace Seeds, and Cannabiogen, (and even these two in a few of their offerings), the rest of the seed banks take each other's work, and either make crosses with them, or simply make F2's and then sell them with the exact same name.
Since the cannabis seed business is currently operating in the grey area, there is basically no way to stop anyone from not only stealing and reselling genetics, but also from stealing the names of the genetics given by the original breeders.
As everything else in this world is changing, the cannabis seed business will also change in the nearest future, and as cannabis slowly moves toward becoming legal, similar to alcohol and tobacco, I am sure there will be a way for the larger seed banks to protect their genetics and names given to their genetics in court.
This will be interesting to see in the future.
Except for a few exceptions, like Ace Seeds, and Cannabiogen, (and even these two in a few of their offerings), the rest of the seed banks take each other's work, and either make crosses with them, or simply make F2's and then sell them with the exact same name.
Since the cannabis seed business is currently operating in the grey area, there is basically no way to stop anyone from not only stealing and reselling genetics, but also from stealing the names of the genetics given by the original breeders.
As everything else in this world is changing, the cannabis seed business will also change in the nearest future, and as cannabis slowly moves toward becoming legal, similar to alcohol and tobacco, I am sure there will be a way for the larger seed banks to protect their genetics and names given to their genetics in court.
This will be interesting to see in the future.
Salutations everybody,
To me packaging quality is no trivial detail when buying cannabis seeds. If it's a money grab business then those seeds are likely to be exposed to the elements, like humidity in August or even daydlight throughout the year if it's on display under neons... Is it really worth the trouble to put that in my refrigerator knowing the producer himself didn't care for adequate protection?
IMO the container should be hermetic and opaque, hence failure to provide this basic feature makes me hesitate and especially when price tags reach 15+ $ per autofem unit.
Here's one good example of a simple airtight/opaque system i believe:
To me packaging quality is no trivial detail when buying cannabis seeds. If it's a money grab business then those seeds are likely to be exposed to the elements, like humidity in August or even daydlight throughout the year if it's on display under neons... Is it really worth the trouble to put that in my refrigerator knowing the producer himself didn't care for adequate protection?
IMO the container should be hermetic and opaque, hence failure to provide this basic feature makes me hesitate and especially when price tags reach 15+ $ per autofem unit.
Here's one good example of a simple airtight/opaque system i believe:
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