As a grower, how do you deal with incoherent/wacky state laws covering growing and possession?

[Waira]

 

[WildBill]

I just find it pretty sad that I have to be Extremely cautious of whom I offer my help!

 

[VitaMan]

Here we can have 4 plants at any stage. We can have up to a kilogram and can only carry up to one ounce.

I only have room for 3 plants and never have more than a pound at one time so no risk for me.

(In times of good harvest set more plates at the table) I give more to friends and family than I use myself.

Nobody ever checks as far as I know so some people have a collection of moms plus a SOG.

If I had room...

 

[Bill.de.Cat]

I deal with like I did in the 80's. As secure as possible, constant vigilance and dump as soon as I notice anything odd. Hopefully we'll be legal to possess after the election but growing is still a no no. Grow spaces have LED and none of them butt up against an outside wall with good A/C air flow so chance of chance of infared detection is low. Lung room intakes air from hall under the door, exhaust fan blows out at top of door in same hall. Carbon filter is changed regularly. Front door stays locked, porch screen door stays locked and gate stays locked.

 

[WildBill]

I deal with like I did in the 80's. As secure as possible, constant vigilance and dump as soon as I notice anything odd. Hopefully we'll be legal to possess after the election but growing is still a no no. Grow spaces have LED and none of them butt up against an outside wall with good A/C air flow so chance of chance of infared detection is low. Lung room intakes air from hall under the door, exhaust fan blows out at top of door in same hall. Carbon filter is changed regularly. Front door stays locked, porch screen door stays locked and gate stays locked.

Put some posted signs on that gate.

I have posted No Trespassing signs in accordance with state law and registered. This property is fully fenced with a pipe fence on the road frontage. I did that with my farm also. It really helps in court when you have trespassers. That help in court not only applies to civilians, it applies to law enforcement also.

With the placement of my entry gate, which is locked at all times, in close proximity to the entrance of my home, just breaking the plane of that gate, law enforcement are encroaching on the curtilage of my property. Therefore, the 4th Amendment is immediately brought into the picture, along with the protections it gives. That, in combination with the posting of no trespassing signs, means that any law enforcement on my property without a warrant are trespassing. There is no such thing as Knock and Talk in this particular instance. They have no more rights to be on your property than the average citizen! That also includes the all powerful game warden!

I did all this well before I started growing cannabis. That becomes much more important with my growing of cannabis. I know I'm probably in the minority with a having a place that affords me that much protection. I know most that live in the city will have an open front yard and it would be subject to the silly Knock and Talk Cramp that the police are allowed to do. Now just remember, without a warrant, law enforcement is just like any other civilian that comes up on your property. They are subject to your approval to be there. If you tell them to leave, they must do so. I do highly encourage you not to go outside of your home to tell them to leave and not open your front door!

Now that's all well and fine if the law enforcement recognizes and respects your Constitutional rights! We all know that's pretty much a damn coin toss with the intelligence level and ego level of law enforcement today! And that's why you have secure cameras with sound and you also record anything with your phone. He may not win the battle at your home, but you will have a better chance in court.

It's pretty sad to say, but the average American just does not understand their constitutional rights and what's even sadder, neither does law enforcement! I highly encourage everyone to fully explore and understand the rights that the Constitution affirms. Remember, the Constitution and Bill of Rights does not give citizens anything! It affirms those rights afforded under the Constitution and Bill of Rights and restricts what government can do.


I still take that Oath, that I took many times, seriously. It kind of becomes near and dear when you put your ASS on the line for it! ................... Defend against threats, foreign and domestic

 

[BII]

......
Now just remember, without a warrant, law enforcement is just like any other civilian that comes up on your property. They are subject to your approval to be there. If you tell them to leave, they must do so
......

How do you stop police who believe they have compelling reason to enter your property without a warrant (which will not be to bust you for growing) from doing this: lecture them about property rights, brandish a gun and maybe get yourself killed, or what? If busted with an impressive grow operation, will a local judge negate felony drug conspiracy, manufacturing, dealing, etc. charges because police ignored trespass signs?

Any grower at a certain scale and/or sophistication of grows (such as yours) should at least be able to let police onto their property and into a reception or living room (but not beyond that) without a warrant (act as most everyone else would, such as if they want to interview you about about a crime against a neighbor). Outdoors can't they just use drones, don't need to come onto your property to spot outdoor plants.

 

[VitaMan]

In Canada there's an equivalency scheme. Provinces can be even stingier.

Here I have seen a gram of Hash @40% listed as equivalent to 4 grams of flower rather than 2 as I would expect.

I took a snip from the feds page to illustrate how nonsensical it can be

A cookie containing 10mg of thc is equivalent to a gram of flower (200+mg) because the cookie weighs 15 grams...

A seed has no thc and the potential for much and there are hundreds in a gram....

Oh yeah. In my province contaminated legal weed is destroyed not processed. Grey market vendors, the good ones anyways, are competitive with each other and with the legal market and they know that they'd be ruined if they sold crap.

 

[Bill.de.Cat]

How do you stop police who believe they have compelling reason to enter your property without a warrant (which will not be to bust you for growing) from doing this: lecture them about property rights, brandish a gun and maybe get yourself killed, or what? If busted with an impressive grow operation, will a local judge negate felony drug conspiracy, manufacturing, dealing, etc. charges because police ignored trespass signs?

Any grower at a certain scale and/or sophistication of grows (such as yours) should at least be able to let police onto their property and into a reception or living room (but not beyond that) without a warrant (act as most everyone else would, such as if they want to interview you about about a crime against a neighbor). Outdoors can't they just use drones, don't need to come onto your property to spot outdoor plants.

A fence and gate is the best 1st step. I used to just twine a chain through my gate until I watched one officer just untwine the chain and walk in, I abruptly met him after 4 steps past my gate ( staying on my front porch 20 feet away ) and letting him know in no uncertain terms that he was trespassing and being video'd doing it. He turned around quick and got back on the other side of the gate and restrung the chain. Since then it's got a lock on it. In the US they have to have specific criteria to come on without a warrent, chasing someone that hopped the fence to elude them, ( Porch screen door is locked as well as the front door so little chance of them running into the house bringing police with them. Watching a crime being committed right in front of them on my side of the fence, still there is no reason to go in the house as the crime didn't occur there. Or if they "hear " something ( a scream ) that might lead them to believe someone is in danger inside the home, the worst in my opinion because they don't have to actually prove there was a scream. Kinda like searching your car cause they smell weed.

 

[WildBill]

How do you stop police who believe they have compelling reason to enter your property without a warrant (which will not be to bust you for growing) from doing this: lecture them about property rights, brandish a gun and maybe get yourself killed, or what? If busted with an impressive grow operation, will a local judge negate felony drug conspiracy, manufacturing, dealing, etc. charges because police ignored trespass signs?

Any grower at a certain scale and/or sophistication of grows (such as yours) should at least be able to let police onto their property and into a reception or living room (but not beyond that) without a warrant (act as most everyone else would, such as if they want to interview you about about a crime against a neighbor). Outdoors can't they just use drones, don't need to come onto your property to spot outdoor plants.

Well, if they do not have a warrant and there are no exigent circumstances, Then yes, any evidence that they find could be suppressed once you reach trial.

A fence and gate is the best 1st step. I used to just twine a chain through my gate until I watched one officer just untwine the chain and walk in, I abruptly met him after 4 steps past my gate ( staying on my front porch 20 feet away ) and letting him know in no uncertain terms that he was trespassing and being video'd doing it. He turned around quick and got back on the other side of the gate and restrung the chain. Since then it's got a lock on it. In the US they have to have specific criteria to come on without a warrent, chasing someone that hopped the fence to elude them, ( Porch screen door is locked as well as the front door so little chance of them running into the house bringing police with them. Watching a crime being committed right in front of them on my side of the fence, still there is no reason to go in the house as the crime didn't occur there. Or if they "hear " something ( a scream ) that might lead them to believe someone is in danger inside the home, the worst in my opinion because they don't have to actually prove there was a scream. Kinda like searching your car cause they smell weed.

And that's why you pull out your phone and video police in any encounter you have with them! And you must give them a friendly reminder to them that they will lose their qualified immunity if they pursue matters further. Knowing a few case law precedents pertinent to your federal court region, will only bolster your case and make them think twice before they violate your constitutional rights. Now, if you have a real stupid officer, He may just complicate things and go ahead and proceed with what he had planned. It's definitely best to try to quash things at that moment, rather than deal with the courts.

That's why fencing, locked gate and no trespassing signs are your best defense against unwanted intrusions by anyone. Most cops are just too damn lazy to pursue something that might be a bit difficult.

Speaking on the exigent circumstances, one avenue where they could gain access to your property without a warrant could be a "welfare check". When I had that tree that decided it wanted to visit my living room, I had a bit of a emotional crisis to develop , so I called the Veterans Crisis Hotline to talk things out. The person on the other end I'm sure had well intentions, but she started to talk about a welfare check. The next 10 to 15 minutes, not working on the problem that I had, but trying to convince this person that sending men with guns it's just not in my best interest! There are multitudes of examples where law enforcement go to do a welfare check on someone and they end up killing that person! After getting nowhere with this person, I requested to speak with their supervisor. Luckily I got someone with a semblance of intelligence that I could converse with. I explained to the supervisor that sending someone of supposed authority to a residence of a veteran that more that more than likely feels that government has not treated them fairly, is just an invite to a conflict and not conducive to solving the problem. It should be an option of last resort when the veteran person is plainly in crisis and actually needs real help.

I evidently got my point across to the supervisor and did not have no jackbooted Nazi come and visit my home late at night. Still didn't let me sleep any with that possibility hanging over my head!

And I could go into how law enforcement needs to hire more intelligent people and how qualified immunity needs to be abolished, but that would take hours to go into!

 

[BII]

Well, if they do not have a warrant and there are no exigent circumstances, Then yes, any evidence that they find could be suppressed once you reach trial.

And that's why you pull out your phone and video police in any encounter you have with them! And you must give them a friendly reminder to them that they will lose their qualified immunity if they pursue matters further. Knowing a few case law precedents pertinent to your federal court region, will only bolster your case and make them think twice before they violate your constitutional rights. Now, if you have a real stupid officer, He may just complicate things and go ahead and proceed with what he had planned. It's definitely best to try to quash things at that moment, rather than deal with the courts.

That's why fencing, locked gate and no trespassing signs are your best defense against unwanted intrusions by anyone. Most cops are just too damn lazy to pursue something that might be a bit difficult.

Speaking on the exigent circumstances, one avenue where they could gain access to your property without a warrant could be a "welfare check". When I had that tree that decided it wanted to visit my living room, I had a bit of a emotional crisis to develop , so I called the Veterans Crisis Hotline to talk things out. The person on the other end I'm sure had well intentions, but she started to talk about a welfare check. The next 10 to 15 minutes, not working on the problem that I had, but trying to convince this person that sending men with guns it's just not in my best interest! There are multitudes of examples where law enforcement go to do a welfare check on someone and they end up killing that person! After getting nowhere with this person, I requested to speak with their supervisor. Luckily I got someone with a semblance of intelligence that I could converse with. I explained to the supervisor that sending someone of supposed authority to a residence of a veteran that more that more than likely feels that government has not treated them fairly, is just an invite to a conflict and not conducive to solving the problem. It should be an option of last resort when the veteran person is plainly in crisis and actually needs real help.

I evidently got my point across to the supervisor and did not have no jackbooted Nazi come and visit my home late at night. Still didn't let me sleep any with that possibility hanging over my head!

And I could go into how law enforcement needs to hire more intelligent people and how qualified immunity needs to be abolished, but that would take hours to go into!

But does lecturing, threatening police with legal action, filming them, citing constitutional rights, etc. actually work; not often result in needless escalation? These are overt actions criminals (growers) with something to hide should not be doing. I presume you live in a rural area in a Western state(?). Do local judges actually let off drug manufacturers caught in the act because of whining about trespassing, such as if police jumped a fence to knock on your door to ask about something and from there somehow (such as because it was not out of sight) you ended up busted for growing?

And why take such adversarial and confrontation-risking attitudes when police coming around without a warrant most likely just want your assistance with some other community policing matter? To me, refusing entry and locking yourself in adds risk of a stand-off or confrontation (call in the SWAT team), makes them suspect (rightly) that you are hiding something criminal, etc. Do you at least put your phone number on trespass signs so police, firemen, electricity meter readers, your neighbors, etc. can call you, ask for you to come out and talk or let them in, or just totally deal with their interest over the phone?