As a grower, how do you deal with incoherent/wacky state laws covering growing and possession?

.....but then we still don't have any recreational dispensaries even after 3+ years.
In MD the dispensaries now also sell for rec. use (to anyone >21 years old), with this just starting in July. Their buds are no better than what I or others grow. I only use the dispensaries for concentrates and oil cartridges (which I consume infrequently, much preferring buds).

The concentrates are often outright cheap (compared to every other product they sell) in terms of THC per dollar, with frequent sales and discounting. Shatters, sugars, budders, rosins, distillates, etc., all reported as >70% THC, often cost ≤$20/gram, in the range of ≤2.5 cents/mg ($25/gram pure THC). At that rate, an oz. of 20% THC buds would cost in the $125 range, which is less than dispensary bud prices. There is essentially no mark up for all the work put in to purify the concentrates. I guess the licensed growers have a lot of trim, shake, leaves, etc. they can process and at least get some additional revenue. Is this much the same where you are - cheap, likely surpluses of legal concentrates?
 
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Is this much the same where you are - cheap, likely surpluses of legal concentrates?
I'm sure concentrates are cheap everywhere - commercial side has been in free-fall for a while. Wholesale price is now $2.12/gram:
https://www.cannabisbenchmarks.com/reports/

Meanwhile, Google says ~7% of households in legal states grow. That all seems to be sourced from a single study based on 2019-2020 data, but would be curious to see how/if that changes over time:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36288408/

I love this from the abstract:
Respondents in states that allowed adult-use home cultivation had higher odds of reporting home cultivation than respondents in states without medical or adult-use cannabis laws (AOR = 1.48, 95% 1.26, 1.75). Among respondents in states that allowed adult-use home cultivation, the median number of plants that respondents reported growing was below state cultivation limits. Conclusion: Home cultivation rates in the U.S. were higher in states that allowed adult-use home cultivation

Gee...maybe try telling them they won a boat and they need to come down to the sheriff's office to claim it?
 
I'm sure concentrates are cheap everywhere -
This is true….. everyone should take the time to educate themselves on “CRC dabs”…. It’s a way of cleaning dirty dabs, to remediate the color and remove contaminants so they’ll pass the tests.


It’s the reason for the cheap prices…
 
In MD the dispensaries now also sell for rec. use (to anyone >21 years old), with this just starting in July. Their buds are no better than what I or others grow. I only use the dispensaries for concentrates and oil cartridges (which I consume infrequently, much preferring buds).

The concentrates are often outright cheap (compared to every other product they sell) in terms of THC per dollar, with frequent sales and discounting. Shatters, sugars, budders, rosins, distillates, etc., all reported as >70% THC, often cost ≤$20/gram, in the range of ≤2.5 cents/mg ($25/gram pure THC). At that rate, an oz. of 20% THC buds would cost in the $125 range, which is less than dispensary bud prices. There is essentially no mark up for all the work put in to purify the concentrates. I guess the licensed growers have a lot of trim, shake, leaves, etc. they can process and at least get some additional revenue. Is this much the same where you are - cheap, likely surpluses of legal concentrates?

It's going to be like that in most markets IMO (and if not now, eventually.) The majority of concentrates are made from low quality and potentially failed cannabis, because it doesn't require high quality flower to produce a relatively "clean" product at the end.

That's where the phrase "if it's moldy, send it to blast" came from. I'm assuming it varies from market to market, but flower that doesn't pass testing can be "remediated" into concentrates. When I worked for Magnolia Road, I came on after they harvested their outdoor crop, and the entire crop failed for arsenic on heavy metal testing. They held on to the weed (which was stored in "super sacks" in an outdoor tent, exposed to huge temperature swings, wind, critters, etc, but hey they were in a sack that held the weed together,) and because of a law change they were hoping, praying, and preying on, what would have otherwise been a total loss of a crop was now allowed to be turned into distillate (you'll learn that distillate is probably the dirtiest word in concentrates.)

Outdoor grown cannabis, market-wise, generally fetches a much lower price per pound at market than indoor grown. It's dirty weed. But you can grow literally metric tons of it compared to indoor growing; which is where a lot of grow owners (read grow owners as "the piggy banks that don't know their heads from their assholes,) think "hey we don't have to grow great pot, we just have to grow a lot of it." And they did. And because they didn't limit the amount of licenses issued, really big farms came in and grew not great pot, but a lot of it, and flooded the market with it lol. That dropped the price per pound down CONSIDERABLY, which forced a lot of grows to completely shut down or sell/transfer their licenses.

Worse, it caused a lot of farms to liquidate their inventory at ridiculously low prices, which gave a lot of spending options to the dispensaries, but also made it harder to get quality flower INTO DISPENARIES, because if farm A is selling you pounds of weed for $200, it's tough to justify spending $400 on that better quality, when consumers traditionally want that cheapest ounce possible.

And so indoor growers are competing for shelf space with outdoor growers, and there's an arguable price point that comes into play. So it leaves the outdoor farms with a lot of quantity sitting around (which eventually decisions are made to sell for concentrates.)

And yes, there's ridiculous amount of trim and shake regardless of indoor/outdoor grown. Some of the trim machine are practically weed lawn mowers, they will take large buds and turn them into shredded buds (the Twister T4 for example. fucking clown shoes of a product.)
 
When I worked for Magnolia Road, I came on after they harvested their outdoor crop, and the entire crop failed for arsenic on heavy metal testing. They held on to the weed (which was stored in "super sacks" in an outdoor tent, exposed to huge temperature swings, wind, critters, etc, but hey they were in a sack that held the weed together,) and because of a law change they were hoping, praying, and preying on, what would have otherwise been a total loss of a crop was now allowed to be turned into distillate (you'll learn that distillate is probably the dirtiest word in concentrates.)

The pictures are on my old phone; but I'll see if I can show you the "quality" of flower that was still able to be sent for concentrates. The buds are practically orange from all the dirt and mold.
 
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April 2015 - Feb 2024 - I assume avg (indoor + outdoor) wholesale prices.

I'd estimate it costs me $250 - $500 / lb growing at home, depending on if I include real property costs (maintenance, depreciation, repairs, etc).

That's including equipment capex and periodic replacement, per-grow materials and consumables, and energy and water.

That's not including direct labor (actual time spent on plants) or indirect labor (time spent on message boards, side projects, web research, etc). If you include the latter, though, I'd probably be better off paying retail flower costs.

Circling back around to laws and regulations - If I use that '7% of households grow' number, I calculate about an $8B/yr 'home cultivation industry' vs. $32B/yr commercial industry. Meaning, about 20% of US cannabis cultivation is non-profit and tax-free (i.e., revenue-less for the states). Sounds like a decent argument to let home growers sell (i.e., collect sales tax), but it'd probably start as making home growers register / pay an additional 'private grower' license fee / etc. So, no one tell the politicians yet.
 
Circling back around to laws and regulations - If I use that '7% of households grow' number, I calculate about an $8B/yr 'home cultivation industry' vs. $32B/yr commercial industry. Meaning, about 20% of US cannabis cultivation is non-profit and tax-free (i.e., revenue-less for the states). Sounds like a decent argument to let home growers sell (i.e., collect sales tax), but it'd probably start as making home growers register / pay an additional 'private grower' license fee / etc. So, no one tell the politicians yet.
Perhaps, there is something to be learned (or avoided) from growing tobacco? it looks like growing tobacco is legal in US at federal and state levels, with no limits on amounts grown or possessed by the growers, but you need to be licensed and pay federal and maybe state taxes if any is sold or transferred. The percent of US tobacco grown by individuals is surely incredibly low. In terms of surplus outdoor production pushing prices down, the large scale agribusiness growers have reduced the prices growers get to bulk commodity levels. Google says "Prevailing value for best quality [tobacco] leaf averaged $2.05 per pound."
 
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Regarding excess and tainted cannabis being used for concentrates, once made these products can be stored for many years, unlike herbal material, and renewed if needed. If stored concentrates go bad, if components oxidize, etc., concentrates can easily be repurified again, such as distilled, or CO2, butane or other solvent extracted. So besides surplus of concentrates legally being manufactured, the amount in storage (presumably reported as increasing assets by the owner corporations?) could well be growing rapidly. And just imagine when commercial and home cannabinoid synthesis and cell culture-based manufacture come online, with this cheaper vs. growing plants.

Concentrates could eventually become bulk commodities, such was much less than $800-1,000/pound (2 cents/gram; $50/oz.). Smuggled hash decades ago locally cost ≤$1,000/pound, so this seems very feasible.
 
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once made these products can be stored for many years, unlike herbal material, and renewed if needed. If stored concentrates go bad, if components oxidize, etc., concentrates can easily be repurified again, such as distilled, or CO2, butane or other solvent extracted. So besides surplus of concentrates legally being manufactured, the amount in storage (presumably reported as increasing assets by the owner corporations?) could well be growing rapidly.

Great in theory, not so much in reality.

Speaking only for Colorado; there's typically a "shelf life" that you're allowed to store products for, set up by regulation. There was a rule change recently where flower can't be stored for longer than 1 year in Colorado, which you'd be surprised how many grows had 3+ year old flower (that are stored in plastic totes with no humidity controls. Boone Farm actually used tortillas in their flower bins lol (you can't do that, they got nailed with fines for it.)

2nd, there's regulations for products that are moldy/defective, that usually involves retesting them several times, which gets to be ungodly expensive. If flower fails for pathogens in Colorado, it has to be retested THREE TIMES. That's actually a big reason why many farms don't produce a variety of cultivars, because every single one is subject to the same testing regulations.

If a product is found in a dispensary to be moldy or contaminated, they will recall the entire batch. The dispensary is also likely to send the product back to the farm (a lot of sales are done on consignment.)

It's likely cheaper to just run a new batch than it is trying to scrape the mold off the top.
 
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