New Grower Another Auto Attempt by gtron (White JEM & AKR)

  • Thread starter Thread starter gtron
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Thanks for the +rep guys! I am creeping towards my goal of having enough so that I can make my own title!

And thank you for the generous offer Mossy!
I am looking for a nice Indica dom auto. If you have anything in the catalogue (or off catalogue) that fits that, it would be fine.
Just send me an private message if you need to confirm anything.

The thing about living organisms is that if something can change, it often will. Sometimes we do everything "wrong" and we get OK results, sometimes we do everything "right" and it is a disaster! We just have to keep observing, learning, and applying the lessons we learn.
I love this site because of the wealth of experience and the determination to learn & communicate what works to others, and all that with the best general atmosphere of any cannabis growing website i have visited.
 
That last paragraph sums it up perfectly.
If I have any + rep to give, it's yours.
 
Where the hell else are you going to get taken care of like this?

Kudos to Mossy, Muddy and JM!
 
I don't see any pics, gtron. Not sure what's up.
 
Pic UpDate DAY 53 & Day 18
Take a look at the JEMs, still getting yellower as the days pass.
Would a foliar spray help anything at all on these two or ???????

Now, Look at the KVS, growth looks good to me, BUT I see a bit of yellowing in the leaves.

She had her first feed yesterday @ around 1/2 strength of the Week 4 EJ schedule (it is on page 5 of this thread)

I want to stay ahead of any problems, so if you advise please be specific about which plant you are advising on.

Porn is below, Sorry Squid! I had a dumbass moment!

WJ1 DAY 53 B.jpgWJ1 DAY 53.jpgWJ2 DAY 53 B.jpgWJ2 DAY 53.jpgKVS DAY 18 B.jpgKVS DAY 18 CLOSE.jpgKVS DAY 18.jpg
 
I'm still thinking it's the EJ nutes. That looks like it could be the beginnings of either a P or K deficiency, possible a bit of Mg too. The leaf tips aren't curing up, so more likely K. A foliar feed of some of the bloom nutes might be in order.
 
I would love to see the composition of each of the nutes somewhere on the website of EJ. It's not only EJ though. Alot of companies don't seem to find important to state in their websites their compositions. This is wrong in my opinion.

We can assume with confidence the problem lies with a mobile micro or macro nutrient, because the leaves affected are the oldest, as opposite to new shoots (which indicates imobile nutrients deficiency). All the rest is kind of a shot in the dark, mainly because that plant is not "normal" and I, for one, don't know what the nutes you giving have in them. I also don't think it's such a good idea to foliar spray with molasses because it attracts bugs and the sugars clog the small stomatas when they dry out.

Is there any and how much Molybdenum (Mo) is in the nutes you giving? They are rare, but Mo def starts in the middle leafs and then goes for the new growth:

Molybdenum (Mo)

Molybdenum has proteins that help the plant take nitrogen from the air.

A Molybdenum deficiency causes leaves to have a pale, fringed and scorched look, along with weird or retarded leaf growth. Yellowing of middle leaves can occur as well as twisted younger leaves which will eventually die. Molybdenum deficiencies frequently resemble a nitrogen deficiency. A Molybdenum deficiency shows older chlorotic leaves with rolled margins and stunted growth. Looks like a nitrogen deficiency but with the red tips moving inwards to the middle of the leaves. Molybendum deficiency will usually show up in the older to middle aged leaves, then it moves to the young leaves. Generally a molybdenum deficiency occurs when sulfur and phosphorus are deficient.

That could be it aswell. Or maybe not :)

That brings us back to P, K and Mg. I agree with Muddy about the P. P would more likely show a dark blotch in the leafs, something like this:
Phosphorus-deficiency1.jpg
That is not the case.

Plants often suffer from mild K deficiencies, even in rich, well-fertilized soil, usually caused by improper fertilization. Many organic fertilizers such as guano, fish emulsion, alfalfa, cottonseed and blood meals, and many animal manures contain minor amounts of K relative to N and P.

Plants suffering from minor deficiencies look vigorous, even taller than the rest of the population, but the tips and edges of their bottom leaves die or turn tan/brown and develop necrotic spots. As the deficiency gets more severe the leaves develop chlorotic spots. Mottled patches of red and yellow appear between the veins, which remain green, accompanied by red stems and petioles. More severe deficiencies result in slower growth, especially when plants are in the vegetative stage. Severe K shortages cause leaves to grow smaller than usual.
Larger fan leaves have some dead patches, or necrosis, on their margins. These leaves eventually turn brown and die off. Plants with K deficiencies tend to be the tallest.

This thing about the tallest plants may not apply here, because you might have a runt.

With Mg def the final result would become something similar to what you have with all that curled and irregular growth, but with a lot of white. Mg helps to support veins and the overall structure of the plant, that's why.

Mg deficiency starts in the lower leaves. The veins remain green while the rest of the leaf turns yellow, exhibiting chlorosis. The leaves eventually curl up, and then die. The edges of affected leaves feel dry and crispy. As the deficiency continues it moves from lower leaves to the middle to upper half.
Eventually the growing shoots change from a pale green to white color. The deficiency is quite apparent in the upper leaves. At the same time, the stems and petioles turn purple.


I desagree with Muddy in one thing :) I would avoid the foliars because she's allready into flowering and there's not much space between the low and the upper end of the plant. I wouldn't want to add mold to my problems. I would get a chelated micro fertilizer and do some feeding.

Chelation is a natural process. In order to prevent absorbed nutrients from precipitation resulting from the interaction of nutrients, such as iron forming precipitation with phosphorus, upon entering plant cells cationic nutrients will immediately form chelates with ORGANIC ACIDS such as citric acids, malonic cid, and some amino acids. This chelation process will then enable the nutrients to move freely inside the plants. CHELATION in soil increases nutrient availability to plants.


It was a bit long, but I hope this helps you out. :)

PS - That's for plants at pics 1 to 4

PS 2 - The other one's are a bit dark. Are you giving them too much N? :)
 
After doing a really good read of EJ's website, I am leaning towards the issue being a K deficiency. In their product line they have Meta-K (0.0.5), which they include in their major fertilizer group, not in the additive group.
So I am thinking of adding a locally available product ,Medina Liquid Seaweed (0.0.1) it is organic (one of the reasons I wanted to try the EJ).

What do you guys think, I am not expecting any really noticeable change in the JEM's, other than perhaps some better coloration on any new growth as I doubt they are going to provide much at all in terms of yield.
However, I do not want the KVS to get into any trouble so I would like to nip its problem early..
If I use it I would probably add a 5ml per gallon to my feed.

I still have plenty of the FF trio, but would prefer to try and work this out with the EJ line if possible.

Another point I have to bring up, EJ's website says you do not need to adjust the ph when using the nutes, I have been. Afn member wbobj, has been using the EJ line without adjusting his ph and had a nice grow.
My water is from an aquarium that is ph adjusted to 6.3.6.8.
When I add the EJ nutes, the ph falls well into the 4 range, however EJ says that shouldn't be a problem.
I have been adjusting the H20 with nutes added to 6.3 to 6.6 with baking soda.
So I am wondering if perhaps adjusting the ph back up has actually caused some lockout? I know it seems counter-intuitive to think that but I am not sure.
Like I said I have no commitment to any fertilizer company. I want as simple as possible. Price is not an issue, unless outrageous.
Organic is preferable, but not at the expense of ease of use. FF trio is pretty damn easy.
 
The guys at General Organics say the same thing about their Bio lineup and ph. I have seen some evidence of grows on other forums where they did not ph their feeds back up from when the nutes took it down into the 4s sometimes, and they were ok. But I have seen more problems that not. Plus, Muddy used to use them and he had to ph them, as so did others or they had problems. So I still suggest regulating your ph. I am dealing with the same issue currently.

Advanced Nutrients makes an organic ph perfect lineup. Micro, Grow, and Bloom. You can look into that if you're interested.
 
On EJ they advise you to use tap water to mix their nutes. I guess they are doing their math on pH bases. Tap water pH usually ranges between 7 and 8.5, so that should give you a clue. When doing a cocktail like you are, it's convenient to know how each nute interacts with the medium. So while "Nute a)" can bring you pH to 4.3 "Nute b)" can bring to 6.0 range. I would advise you to mix them all in separate containers and check each pH separate so you figure it out.

Baking soda can be an issue. It is true that baking soda can raise pH, but I do not recommend using it. Chemically, baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate. High levels of sodium are like trying to grow plants in salted soil. In addition to that, the presence of Sodium compounds will prevent the plants from taking up Calcium.....which will cause all kinds of problems with nutrient deficiencies (Nitrogen is a mobile nutrient, but is only mobile to the plant in the presence of Calcium. Other nutrients will only be taken up by the plants along side Calcium).

In adition Baking soda is not stable over time. It would be much better for you to get a professional pH UP /pH DOWN.

Also, careful selection of your N sources will help you with managing soil pH as well. You have to know whether your N is an ammonical or urea based source (acidic), which will tend to drive pH down over time, or a nitrate source (base) which will tend to drive pH up over time.

I've done some research and found out that EJ needs alot of pH adjustment, so +rep for Muddy again on EJ... I would change into Advanced Nutrients or BioBizz - AN chelate most of their products so I would chose them.
 
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