New Grower Watering with Oxygenated water

[pop22]

the dissolved O2 content of water is varies with temperature as cooler water can hold more dissolved O2 than warm. and what is your point? Not sure what your getting at.
Increasing dissolved O2 is one of the factors that makes DWC/RDWC successful. And the less O2 in the water, coupled with high solution temeratures, is an invitation to pythium, etc.
So yes, prevention is always best, and prevention starts with proper procedures. Most disease requires three vectors: Heat+humidity+source. remove any one of the three and infection can't happen. I don't consider running sterile systems prevention, I consider it a poor alternative to maintaining proper conditions in the growroom as it also destroys any beneficial life in your system.

Air is air - air pumps pump mostly nitrogen and little oxygen, 4/5 N2 and 1/5 O2 respectively - if you use bigger air pumps and pump 3 X as much air your don't get 3 X as much oxygen.
Air is a limiting factor is plenty of oxygen is your goal. Are you a RDWC grower and do you ever have root rot outbreaks?
I have looked and seem may "forum experts" claim that plenty of oxygen prevents fungal infestations, yet I see far more discussion about how to cure root rot. Looks to me like the vast majority of growers prefer treating the disease because they cannot prevent the fungal disease outbreak.

I'd rather prevent root rot any day than catch it and then try to cure it. How bout you? Prevention or treatment, what's your preference, that is if you really had any choice about it?

 

[Corgy]

Air is air - air pumps pump mostly nitrogen and little oxygen, 4/5 N2 and 1/5 O2 respectively - if you use bigger air pumps and pump 3 X as much air your don't get 3 X as much oxygen.
Air is a limiting factor is plenty of oxygen is your goal. Are you a RDWC grower and do you ever have root rot outbreaks?
I have looked and seem may "forum experts" claim that plenty of oxygen prevents fungal infestations, yet I see far more discussion about how to cure root rot. Looks to me like the vast majority of growers prefer treating the disease because they cannot prevent the fungal disease outbreak.

I'd rather prevent root rot any day than catch it and then try to cure it. How bout you? Prevention or treatment, what's your preference, that is if you really had any choice about it?

That is probably because few growers bother with striving for an aerobic root environment as opposed to anaerobic condition. The usual good news is no news applies, those with trouble call for help and get noticed, those with no trouble don't say much because they take it for granted so nobody takes notice. To me, aerobic = prevention and anaerobic = firefighting.

For all practical purposes, oxygen is absorbed into water at the surface, not in the water column, so surface disturbance(the amount of) is what counts.
Paddle wheels, airpumps, waterfalls, wind and such.......when air is injected into water it creates, or pushes, an upward flow, so an airlift pump in a reservoir will ensure good mixing and aeration, like this

http://www.alabdiffusers.com/airlift.htm

 

[Henry]

the dissolved O2 content of water is varies with temperature as cooler water can hold more dissolved O2 than warm. and what is your point? Not sure what your getting at.
Increasing dissolved O2 is one of the factors that makes DWC/RDWC successful. And the less O2 in the water, coupled with high solution temeratures, is an invitation to pythium, etc.

“Questions lead to answers. Blind acceptance does not.”

I really like this little jingle of wisdom.

Here’s what I’m getting at: When it comes to preventing low oxygenation issues and root rot outbreaks, I find that the vast majority of RDWC/DWC pot growers posting on forums in fact do practice “blind acceptance” daily assuming that air is oxygen when air is 4/5 nitrogen and believe the only way to increase DO saturation in nutrient water is to chill the water, pump more with bigger air pumps, waterfalls, spray bars, add more bubble rocks, smaller air bubbles make more oxygen... FACT: if you are using air to insure safe continuous oxygenation you are automatically limited yourself to 20% O2 max, period. If you buy a bigger air pump and pump twice the air, you do not make 40% oxygen or get more oxygen in your solution. Oh how often we are trapped by our personal self-imposed limitations and boundary’s. We fail or refuse to venture into gas chemistry laws that regulate and control dissolved oxygen saturation in water (the real meat of this dissolved oxygenation matter), blood and other water based liquids. Why do we commonly accept repetitive low oxygen failures and dare think out-of-the-box for a viable solution how to insure 100% DO Sat continuously or open even open a chemistry book and discover the real reasons why using all that air and chilled nutrient solution we consistently fail to prevent low oxygen and just accept dealing with root rot and treatments.

My question, “Why can’t any RDWC /DWC pot grower use 80F nutrient water and maintain and sustain 100%-130% DO saturation 27/7 provided it can be done cost effective?”

Corgy says “…because few growers bother with striving for an aerobic root environment as opposed to anaerobic condition…” This is a great example of apathy and “blind acceptance,” prevention is out of site-out of mind – a nonissue. Corgy implys that most growers to totally unconcerned about low oxygenation or preventing root rot. Most growers accept, expect the root rot as normal and rather deal with treating the disease vs. preventing the disease.

“Questions lead to answers” So why in the world do all these growers buy all these air pumps, air stones, waterfalls and water chillers knowing that all this stuff will not maintain nor insure continuous 100% DO Sat and prevent root rot?

Most children that can't read yet learn that every time they stick their little hand into the fire, their hand gets burned, powerful behavior modification – repeating the same mistakes using air and water chillers, always hoping for 100% DO Sat and seldom achieving this oxygenation goal requires more chemistry education and intensive behavior modification to fix this.

 

[pop22]

I've never read that the purpose of the air entrainment was to prevent root rot. My understanding is it increases O2 available to the root for their usage. also, a properly done DWC/RDWC leaves an airspace between the bottom of the pot and the surface of the water. Plants will grow roots whose main purpose is O2 absorption. Raising the Os levels in the solution to their maximum possible feeds O2 to all roots. It will also help thebeneficial fungi and bacteria if it is being used, and thus, does also help control diseases.
The point isn't to concentrate the O2, its to attain maximum absobtion of available atmospheric gases containing O2. You could inject pure O2......... which would kill the infection vectors AND the plants rather quickly...........

This is also why usingH2O2 is not an effective method of controling pythium, etc.

Have you look into the Kratky Method of hydroponics? NO airstones, NO pumps. Just a bucket of nutrient solution with air airspace for the roots to pass thru!

“Questions lead to answers. Blind acceptance does not.”

I really like this little jingle of wisdom.

Here’s what I’m getting at: When it comes to preventing low oxygenation issues and root rot outbreaks, I find that the vast majority of RDWC/DWC pot growers posting on forums in fact do practice “blind acceptance” daily assuming that air is oxygen when air is 4/5 nitrogen and believe the only way to increase DO saturation in nutrient water is to chill the water, pump more with bigger air pumps, waterfalls, spray bars, add more bubble rocks, smaller air bubbles make more oxygen... FACT: if you are using air to insure safe continuous oxygenation you are automatically limited yourself to 20% O2 max, period. If you buy a bigger air pump and pump twice the air, you do not make 40% oxygen or get more oxygen in your solution. Oh how often we are trapped by our personal self-imposed limitations and boundary’s. We fail or refuse to venture into gas chemistry laws that regulate and control dissolved oxygen saturation in water (the real meat of this dissolved oxygenation matter), blood and other water based liquids. Why do we commonly accept repetitive low oxygen failures and dare think out-of-the-box for a viable solution how to insure 100% DO Sat continuously or open even open a chemistry book and discover the real reasons why using all that air and chilled nutrient solution we consistently fail to prevent low oxygen and just accept dealing with root rot and treatments.

My question, “Why can’t any RDWC /DWC pot grower use 80F nutrient water and maintain and sustain 100%-130% DO saturation 27/7 provided it can be done cost effective?”

Corgy says “…because few growers bother with striving for an aerobic root environment as opposed to anaerobic condition…” This is a great example of apathy and “blind acceptance,” prevention is out of site-out of mind – a nonissue. Corgy implys that most growers to totally unconcerned about low oxygenation or preventing root rot. Most growers accept, expect the root rot as normal and rather deal with treating the disease vs. preventing the disease.

“Questions lead to answers” So why in the world do all these growers buy all these air pumps, air stones, waterfalls and water chillers knowing that all this stuff will not maintain nor insure continuous 100% DO Sat and prevent root rot?

Most children that can't read yet learn that every time they stick their little hand into the fire, their hand gets burned, powerful behavior modification – repeating the same mistakes using air and water chillers, always hoping for 100% DO Sat and seldom achieving this oxygenation goal requires more chemistry education and intensive behavior modification to fix this.

 

[pop22]

Also, i've recently read that the devices that agitate the water in an manner are not effective ways to ADD O2 etc, it actually releases the suspended gases reducing the available O2. It does however, break the boundry layers that create zones of varing temperature and depleted O2 concentrations

 

[Henry]

H

Also, i've recently read that the devices that agitate the water in an manner are not effective ways to ADD O2 etc, it actually releases the suspended gases reducing the available O2. It does however, break the boundry layers that create zones of varing temperature and depleted O2 concentrations

Have you ever actually used a DO meter and tested the DO Saturation in any RDWC/DWC and seen the test results on the meter?

 

[pop22]

No I have not and have not run DWC in sometime. Would love to se some tests.

H


Have you ever actually used a DO meter and tested the DO Saturation in any RDWC/DWC and seen the test results on the meter?

 

[Henry]

No I have not and have not run DWC in sometime. Would love to se some tests.

You can predict a fungal outbreak in RDWC/DWC before the outbreak presents with slime on the roots and there's nothing to it. When you test the DO Sat in your nutrient water and the DO Saturation is low and remains 100% Sat, go ahead prepare for your Pythium outbreak because it's happening now. When you see the low DO and you can't get it up to 100% DO Sat, go ahead and buy your chemicals, have them ready to go because the root rot, albeit tiny and brainless the fungi will definitely recognized this opportunity and thrive. The sooner you treat the dreaded fungal disease the better the outcome.

 

[Henry]

Interesting article about oxygen and hydroponics on the Grozine web site... check this.

Dissolved Oxygen in Hydroponics “Dissolved Oxygen in Hydroponics is that missing link to faster growth rates, healthier plants and even bigger yields.” . http://www.grozine.com/2014/01/31/dissolved-oxygen-in-hydroponics/

“… most growers are aware that their plants use CO2 (carbon dioxide) through their leaves, and know they may increase growth rates by increasing these levels. However, few “think O2” when contemplating what is propelling their garden forward in the hopes of achieving health yields.

Just like in humans, O2 is critical for respiration-when plants actually use all the sugars they manufacture during light hours to grow, this mostly happens during the dark cycle. You can load your crops with carbs, but if they don’t have enough O2, that can become a limiting factor in how much of those carbs they can “burn” for growth. Oxygen availability in the root zone is highly critical for root health and nutrient uptake. In warm and wet conditions, oxygen levels are low because colder water holds much, much more water oxygen-as do the pore spaces around the roots when empty.”

 

[Corgy]

That's common knowledge among gardeners..... What is the point you are trying to make?

Your posts #13 and #19 seem to contradict each other.