Wait, wait wait...
Is the zinc maybe providing you assurance that foliar feeding buds won't cause yuck?? Or why aren't you worried about it?
Wait, wait wait...
Is the zinc maybe providing you assurance that foliar feeding buds won't cause yuck?? Or why aren't you worried about it?
T
Trifid
Guest
Absolutely Noods :thumbs:
Addition of free or 'unbound' zinc does indeed provide conditions that are infavorable to the proliferation of fungus. The algae extracts used in foliar applications are crude and not bio-active and contain mostly growth promoting substances. More importantly, Zinc is applied to these solutions to aid surface adsorption by increasing the EC - producing a potential cationic gradient and chelation at the stomata during transpiration. I tend to foliar feed during light out with conc no greater than 0.1-2% avoiding saturation of the flowers and spraying toward the fan leaves..
- Without a sufficient potential gradient, surface adsorptions of solutions applied as trans-foliar agents are limited, leading to 'pooling' and eventual stagnation. Pooling may also be caused by the inhibition of stomartal opening under improper conditions (ie. pH flux, improper humidity, temperature and water deprivation at the rhizoshere (root mass))... Adsorption should be rapid and apparent by the sequential loss of tonic from the leaf surface within 10-15 mins. This process is not assisted by evaporation. Leaf tonic-residues are an indicator of improper trans-adsorption whereby the tonic failed to diffuse into the stomatal opening and evaporation has lead to the formation of salts and residual deposits.
Addition of free or 'unbound' zinc does indeed provide conditions that are infavorable to the proliferation of fungus. The algae extracts used in foliar applications are crude and not bio-active and contain mostly growth promoting substances. More importantly, Zinc is applied to these solutions to aid surface adsorption by increasing the EC - producing a potential cationic gradient and chelation at the stomata during transpiration. I tend to foliar feed during light out with conc no greater than 0.1-2% avoiding saturation of the flowers and spraying toward the fan leaves..
- Without a sufficient potential gradient, surface adsorptions of solutions applied as trans-foliar agents are limited, leading to 'pooling' and eventual stagnation. Pooling may also be caused by the inhibition of stomartal opening under improper conditions (ie. pH flux, improper humidity, temperature and water deprivation at the rhizoshere (root mass))... Adsorption should be rapid and apparent by the sequential loss of tonic from the leaf surface within 10-15 mins. This process is not assisted by evaporation. Leaf tonic-residues are an indicator of improper trans-adsorption whereby the tonic failed to diffuse into the stomatal opening and evaporation has lead to the formation of salts and residual deposits.
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Great answer. Thank you. I'm a friend of foliar feeding, but was afraid to continue during flowering. I've checked through this thread again and wasn't able to find your source of zinc, and I really want to find it. Is it already added to the algae/seaweed, or are you adding it. My seaweed is just pure Ascophyllum nodosum.
T
Trifid
Guest
If your source of Asco is dessicated and in powdered form you'll have an abundant source of 'bound' zinc since Asco has a bio-magnification factor in the order of 10^3 if extracted from natural resources. Since these are already complexed with a variety of organic compounds of interest you can boost the EC with 'free' zinc supplementation. I'm using lab-grade (Aldrich) reagents here but i'm sure health-food stores are selling a worthwhile equivalent although try to avoid sources that contain caking agents since these will saponificate your auxins (aluminosilicate assisted esterification of organic acids) . Are you monitoring the EC of your solutions? Glad to be of assistance 
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Yes, I have just pure, powdered Asco. That's good news.
I was also eyeing those fizzy vitamin and what-not tabs for additional sources of mg and things... but decided against it because of the other gunk in them.
I use Distilled Water with EWC, Seaweed, Alfalfa, Horn, Bone and (steamed)Blood Meal, Chicken and Seabird Guanos, and Molasses to make my Tea's and have never checked my EC. All 15 - 18 ltr of these Tea's have had a very agreeable 6.2 - 6.6 pH after aerating. I guess I'm pampered.
Thanks for the info my friend!!
:smokebuds:
I was also eyeing those fizzy vitamin and what-not tabs for additional sources of mg and things... but decided against it because of the other gunk in them.
I use Distilled Water with EWC, Seaweed, Alfalfa, Horn, Bone and (steamed)Blood Meal, Chicken and Seabird Guanos, and Molasses to make my Tea's and have never checked my EC. All 15 - 18 ltr of these Tea's have had a very agreeable 6.2 - 6.6 pH after aerating. I guess I'm pampered.
Thanks for the info my friend!!
:smokebuds:
T
Trifid
Guest
but decided against it because of the other gunk in them....
Good call with not using them, these shelf-life and gastro-pass additives can really freak the plants out
Your tea is a sustainable nutritional source for sure. What concentrations are you using? The Alfalfa is awesome are you harvesting/processing this yourself? Your pH is near perfect for soil. Are you using any inoculant cultures to facilitate N/P availability and selective uptake? Apart from the obvious advantages to using bio-cultures ('lab in the soil') as providing a source of readily synthesized growth promoting compounds, they also serve as a very resilient pH buffer to the growing media. If you have any more questions please feel free to ask
Good call with not using them, these shelf-life and gastro-pass additives can really freak the plants out
Your tea is a sustainable nutritional source for sure. What concentrations are you using? The Alfalfa is awesome are you harvesting/processing this yourself? Your pH is near perfect for soil. Are you using any inoculant cultures to facilitate N/P availability and selective uptake? Apart from the obvious advantages to using bio-cultures ('lab in the soil') as providing a source of readily synthesized growth promoting compounds, they also serve as a very resilient pH buffer to the growing media. If you have any more questions please feel free to ask
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D
drjkl
Guest
You got me reading up on mycorhizzal fungi and yeast. I like the organic grow, regular detailed updates, variety of stains and lots of pics of great looking plants. What i'm trying to say is thanks for a great journal and +1 rep. The only way I see to improve this thread is group the pics together by strain and label them.
I like the Alfalfa too. It's pure Alfalfa Pellets, bought on-line, that are held together with some sugary agent. There's not much of the sugar stuff though since they break down pretty easily. I use a mortar and pestle to powder it up. The only inoculants I use are the ones that the tea's produce or that the soil produces or the combination of both. So I guess, yeah, I am adding inoculant cultures.
That's part of my KISS method- not getting too exact about it. A typical feeding would be something like this till she starts flowering:
1 ltr dist water
2 - 2.5 ml Molasses
1 fat tsp Alfalfa
1 fat tsp Kelp
1/2 tsp Seabird Guano
A lot of the mixing is down to what smells best that day and of course, what the plant is saying.
I let it aerate for at least 12 hrs and feed.
Every third feeding or so, the "leftovers" get sifted out and worked into the soil before feeding. Sometimes I'll add some fresh Horn and Bone and Blood before feeding as well.
During flowering, same as above, but Chicken Guano instead of Seabird.
Towards the end of my last grow I got some Bio Bizz Fish Mix and Bio Bloom. I'm going to try to work them into my next project which will be visible on AFN very, very soon.
That's part of my KISS method- not getting too exact about it. A typical feeding would be something like this till she starts flowering:
1 ltr dist water
2 - 2.5 ml Molasses
1 fat tsp Alfalfa
1 fat tsp Kelp
1/2 tsp Seabird Guano
A lot of the mixing is down to what smells best that day and of course, what the plant is saying.
I let it aerate for at least 12 hrs and feed.
Every third feeding or so, the "leftovers" get sifted out and worked into the soil before feeding. Sometimes I'll add some fresh Horn and Bone and Blood before feeding as well.
During flowering, same as above, but Chicken Guano instead of Seabird.
Towards the end of my last grow I got some Bio Bizz Fish Mix and Bio Bloom. I'm going to try to work them into my next project which will be visible on AFN very, very soon.
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T
Trifid
Guest
drjkl - Glad your enjoying the project here and thanks for your input. That's a very useful idea i hadn't thought of.. It will take some time but i'll get round it as soon as i can. I could even refer to them when documenting. Thank you for the +rep and poping by to check out my thread it's very much appreciated. In the nxt couple of weeks, I will produce a series of reports detailing the bio-chemical aspects/advantages of soil inoculation and techniques for producing, harvesting and processing algae and yeast cultures from simple ingredients. If you're doing some reading here's a link to a thread i thought might be of some interest to you..
http://www.autoflower.org/f26/effec...-132%3B-virtanen-synn%D6ve-v-hausen-4575.html
http://www.autoflower.org/f26/effec...-132%3B-virtanen-synn%D6ve-v-hausen-4575.html
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T
Trifid
Guest
Awesome Noods, I'm sure you have plenty biological-activity there for sure.. especially with that seabird guano Your tea will introduce various micro-organisms into the growing medium. Sustaining various colonies in the media at any one time can cause them to compete until a dominant species remains but this occurs within the natural setting all the time without any significant loss of activity. It may be more economical for you to produce your Alfalfa yourself - since the crude product from extraction is far more prolific than what is available commercially. The trouble most people have with using bio-fertilizers in organic farming is that much of what you are applying you must produce yourself since the shelf life of biologically-active substances is limited and thus their commercialization as 'products' is nonviable. I have a question you may be able to help me with - At what stage do you begin to cut out top-layer applications of guano? I'm thinking of providing applications of fresh mulch up until the final three weeks of development - just as the plants are reaching maturity. What are your experiences with regards to organic P/K supplementation during the final stages of flowering and the taste/quality of the final product?
Your tea will introduce various micro-organisms into the growing medium. Sustaining various colonies in the media at any one time can cause them to compete until a dominant species remains but this occurs within the natural setting all the time without any significant loss of activity. It may be more economical for you to produce your Alfalfa yourself - since the crude product from extraction is far more prolific than what is available commercially. The trouble most people have with using bio-fertilizers in organic farming is that much of what you are applying you must produce yourself since the shelf life of biologically-active substances is limited and thus their commercialization as 'products' is nonviable. I have a question you may be able to help me with - At what stage do you begin to cut out top-layer applications of guano? I'm thinking of providing applications of fresh mulch up until the final three weeks of development - just as the plants are reaching maturity. What are your experiences with regards to organic P/K supplementation during the final stages of flowering and the taste/quality of the final product?Similar threads
