Must read! Lst difficulties

[Builder0101]

Hey AFN folks! It’s been over a decade since I’ve grown last and times have changed to say the least. So it’s time to grow! So I have two plants growing both around 3 weeks from germ. My setup is a 1,000w led 30” above with dimmers, my temp stays around 77 and humidity right about 50. No nutes. I’m growing RQS gorilla auto and Autoseeds dreamberry (trifoliate) both of which are just bellow 3.5 inches currently at day 20. Last night I started lst with no problems, but this is my question, I understand the point behind lst is to provide more light to the under sites, but my plants are so short and bushy that even after tying down I’m not really getting much more light to lower nodes. So is the fact that the top is being held down going to allow for the lower nodes to grow through the leaves even though they aren’t really getting much more light? I’ll include a pic of each (gorilla, gorilla side, dreamberry), post lst. Advice is much appreciated!

Some photos.

 

[WilliamNewbridge]

I'm a fan of daily LST...

Just playing around with how many colas can be grown without negatively impacting yield. Other factors like defoliation and pruning combine to get the best outcome and I think much depends on the strain.

Other consideration for me is environment and my limited space. I'm in a 20"x36" temt. Too many colas and a bushy plant mean she struggles to get sufficient light penetration. Lots of undeveloped stuff in the undergrowth.

Anyhow the goal up till now has been to grow a big plant and see how much I could shape the plant to the tent. Did well but as mentioned there was just too much going on in my small space. Now the thought is fewer colas and maximizing space and light penetration.

She is a Fastbuds West Coast OG and she is just touching both ends of my tent at 3 feet wide and 20 inches deep but she is only about 16-18 inches tall.

 

[Builder0101]

I'm a fan of daily LST...

Just playing around with how many colas can be grown without negatively impacting yield. Other factors like defoliation and pruning combine to get the best outcome and I think much depends on the strain.

Other consideration for me is environment and my limited space. I'm in a 20"x36" temt. Too many colas and a bushy plant mean she struggles to get sufficient light penetration. Lots of undeveloped stuff in the undergrowth.

Same issue. 4x4 tent has room but out of light footprint. these girls would be friggin huge if I could space them out and spread their branches more. Each plant could easily be 3' in diameter. I have 2 plants that turned out to be photos. I need them out of my tent. My only option at this point is to give them to a guy who has a single 600w halide or something. He basically shoves his plants in dirt and waters them. Turns out Larfy nugs.
Been researching defoliation. Cannabis growers ate the only farmers who defoliate. lots of arguments against it. Still researching. Buds dont photosynthesize...
Up for debate.
Leaf on top of leaf (I mean touching) gotta go to reduce pathogen potential. Other than that. Lower foliage to promote air circulation. Other than that I'm on the fence.

 

[Marthajeep]

If that is calcium def you caught it day one. As far as the mag def if it is the purple stem you are looking at it may be the strain. Other than that I dont see it. I have purple stems on one of my strains not sure off hand which one.

I like Epsom salts for mag. Of course ro has no calcium. Cal.mag wont hurt anything. If you are using a living soil you need to feed the soil not the plant. What beneficial microbes are you using? Are you using teas? A cold processed cold water Kelp, worm, molasses, is a good tea for feeding the soil. Neem meal is great for pest management and nitrogen for grow. Alfalfa is always nice. You can topdress with any of those of course. Perhaps you can research them all and see if any fit in your current regimen especially if they fill any voids. Humic and fulvic acid are great. Silica is great. It can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. As I stated I think earlier my new plant is going to get teas for feeding with very little additional amendments.
Do you PH your water? What is your medium other than a layer of living soil. What are the constituents of your living soil?

The fert that arrived today is for veg, it’s roots organics. It has; Feather Meal, Bat Guano, Fish Meal, Non Gmo Soybean Meal, Chicken Manure, Langbeinite, EarthWorm Castings, Volcanic Rock Dust, Non Gmo Alfalfa Meal, Crab Meal, Greensand, Volcanic Ash, Dolomite, Blood Meal, Fish Bone Meal and Nettle Leaf. Also contains non plant food ingredients Humic Acid, Beneficial Bacteria and Beneficial Fungi.

Also the organic calmag I picked up is Blue Planet Nutrients. It has more than just calmag;

Nature’s Living Soil is what I mixed with ffof and perlite with the bottom third as directed (slightly less), so the roots hit a mixture, not straight concentrate. I wanted to do that rather than complete living soil as people have mentioned that ffof is too hot, so I figured just let them have the soil to start until they grow enough for roots to hit further down when more established. Ingredients in that are; Organic Earthworm Castings, High Quality Bat Guano, Blood Meal, Bone Meal, Fish Bone Meal, Alfalfa Meal, Kelp Meal, Dolomite Lime, Azomite, Epsom Salt, Coconut Water Powder , Aloe Vera The Microorganisms: Microorganisms:Glomus Aggregatum, Glomus Etunicatum, Glomus Intraradices,Glomus Mosseae, Pisolithus Tinctorius, Scleroderma Cepa, Scleroderma Citrinum,Trichoderma Harzianum, Trichoderma Koningii, Saccharomyces Cerevisiae,Azotobacter Chroococcum, Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens, Bacillus Azotoformans,Bacillus Coagulans, Bacillus Licheniformis, Bacillus Megaterium, BacillusPumilus, Bacillus Subtilis, Bacillus Thuringiensis, Paenibacillus Durum,Paenibacillus Polymyxa, Pseudomonas Aureofaciens, Pseudomonas Fluorescens.

I’m sure it sounds quite overkill, but everything is being used in moderation. I’m definitely going to add molasses to my water as kind of a “tea”, but don’t want to actually do a full tea as the living soil and light-spread out top dressing should be plenty.

As you can see my soil should be well fed, but if you have any suggestions for adding anything other than molasses to feed, what I’m feeding my soil, I’m all ears. Thanks

 

[Builder0101]

I encourage you to use the product you researched and purchased. it is a good product. I would also not be worried about adding teas to that regimen. A once a week tea that has I plentiful and diverse biology can only be beneficial IMO. It can be as simple as worm castings and molasses. Or worm, neem meal, and molasses for veg. Bat guano for flower. Silica, aloe, humid acid, and fulvic acid are great additives. Mix it up I.E. worm, molasses, neem, aloe, and humic. Then rather than humic fulvic and silica the next week. At that point you are close to switching to a bloom tea. Brew for 24- 36 hours. It does not keep so any leftover you can use on houseplants or outside. If you are nervous about the strength you can dilute 50/50 with water. I always use a good cold water cold processed kelp in all of my teas. You can also use it as a foliar spray. Fulvic is an especially good spray. Neem is a great pest control agent. Aloe is amazing stuff. Feed plants to plants. I hope this helps.

 

[Marthajeep]

I encourage you to use the product you researched and purchased. it is a good product. I would also not be worried about adding teas to that regimen. A once a week tea that has I plentiful and diverse biology can only be beneficial IMO. It can be as simple as worm castings and molasses. Or worm, neem meal, and molasses for veg. Bat guano for flower. Silica, aloe, humid acid, and fulvic acid are great additives. Mix it up I.E. worm, molasses, neem, aloe, and humic. Then rather than humic fulvic and silica the next week. At that point you are close to switching to a bloom tea. Brew for 24- 36 hours. It does not keep so any leftover you can use on houseplants or outside. If you are nervous about the strength you can dilute 50/50 with water. I always use a good cold water cold processed kelp in all of my teas. You can also use it as a foliar spray. Fulvic is an especially good spray. Neem is a great pest control agent. Aloe is amazing stuff. Feed plants to plants. I hope this helps.

Sorry if I’m pulling a newb here, but can you explain, share an article, or give me the short answer (if there is one), as to the difference of top dressing vs using the same ingredients in a bucket with an air stone, or “tea”? I’ve done some research on this, but the more I search the more I find generic info. You seem to really appreciate the tea. Why so fond? I only ask because you have the experience that I don’t. Thanks builder, I appreciate your input.

 

[Builder0101]

Sorry if I’m pulling a newb here, but can you explain, share an article, or give me the short answer (if there is one), as to the difference of top dressing vs using the same ingredients in a bucket with an air stone, or “tea”? I’ve done some research on this, but the more I search the more I find generic info. You seem to really appreciate the tea. Why so fond? I only ask because you have the experience that I don’t. Thanks builder, I appreciate your input.

As I said before. I encourage you to use dry amendments. it is tried and true. The product you are using is made by a reputable company that has invested much in R&D. I would encourage you to check out Mr. Canucks on you tube. He uses Gia Green 444 and 284 almost exclusively. He ads Mycorrizae and an occasional tea. That's it. He is very successful. He runs Autos and Photos. Same recipe for both. I would not call that a living soil. He is feeding the plants not the soil. A true living soil is a No Till. A no till is exactly what it sounds like. In that system the soil is fed with compost. The compost is amended with fungi and bacteria. No Till farmers use teas to bolster the "living soil". The microbial life has many facets. They create a symbiotic relationship with the cannabis. They create chelating enzymes which solulabise macro and micro nutrients, they colonize the root system and protect it from pathogens, and much more. In return the cannabis provides sugars/carbohydrates which feed the microbes. The microbes are attracted to the roots because of this... They help eachother.
In between No Till and Dry Amendments is where I try to exist. I believe a balance can be struck between the two. I use several techniques. And to be honest make it more complicated than it needs to be. I use lots of microbes and enzymes.
I do use dry amendments but not the recommended dosage. Nor as frequently as recommended. Rather I "ammend" my dry ammendments. There are several very good products, for lack of a better term, that can help achieve this. Mycorrhizae, among others colonize the actual roots. I pop seeds with this in the medium. By that I mean a localized dusting in the void I create for the seed. I stick a knife down in the medium and create a deep v. I moisten the walls of the v and sprinkle Myco to dust the walls. Close the v and plant the seed over that spot. Cold water kelp which has been processed using non destructive methods. Kelp is the fastest growing plant on earth. It has been measured to grow 4' per day. Good kelp also has beneficial microbes (look it up please too much to write).
Worm castings are full of wonderful bacteria.
Neem meal is a great source of Nitrogen with a little p and k to boot. Neem is a superb addition to pest control. I eliminated fungus gnats with a cup of Neem meal scratched into my 5 gallon pots while providing a slow release source of nitrogen. Alfalfa is a great source of N and K that will not burn. Humic and Fulvic acids are great chelating enzymes. Silica is great at building thick cell walls. In addition to a stronger plant some pests find the plant (apparently) less appealing. Too tough. Most of these and more are available to deliver as dry amendments. I use them to varying degrees and combinations as teas. Oh. Cant forget aloe. Buy some aloe plants and do some research. Amazing stuff. Brewing teas with a starch (molasses and or honey) feeds the microbes. If the ammendments dry contain 100,000 living organisms brewing them can create 10,000,000 living organisms. I'm just pulling numbers out of the air to make my point. Honey (good pure honey like you get at the farmers market from the local guy with bee hives)
Happens to have beneficial microbes. It is used in hospitals etc as wound dressing. Tea on a fairly regular basis ensures, hopefully, that there is always a microbial system colonizing the rhizosphere. The rhizosphere is where all the action is. Feed the soil. Feed plants to plants. Feed plants to microbes. I encourage you to research all of the items I have listed. Definately Research KNF and No Till Gardening. Before you can begin to employ these techniques you need to have a firm grasp on what each does. How it interacts with the soil, with the plant, with the other microbes... And no you can not do no till in a 12 litre pot. I think the No Till guys and gals will tell you nothing less than 20 gallons. So what about 75-80 litres. I am attempting to have a living soil without committing to no till. I'm even researching how I can introduce worms (actual) to my 5 to 7 gallon pots. I'm sorry I am not going to site any articles. I think it is better for you to do the research. Let your research take you down an organic (no pun intended) path. So much to discover. I am sure you will be educating me very soon. Most importantly have fun. Enjoy your plants. Listen to them. Observe them. Take copious notes daily. Little things may seem inconsequential. It is those little things we forget we did. You can go back and read them and say, oh ya...
Grow for the love of growing and it is it's own reward. If you love it. If you care about your girls you can not fail. You can definately stumble. I do every day. But in the end you will triumph.
I hope this helps. No one can do it for you. Dont add too many moving parts at once. A simple molasses, worm, kelp tea once a week is safe as can be.

 

[Builder0101]

Yes let her put on a 3rd node. Bend her over. Tie her off. Wait a week. Start doing more. It seems intimidating but it is actually intuitive. You will see. She will tell you what to do.

 

[Django_TO]

Yes let her put on a 3rd node. Bend her over. Tie her off. Wait a week. Start doing more. It seems intimidating but it is actually intuitive. You will see. She will tell you what to do.

I really like the "She will tell you what to do". Since i'm on my first grow i'm hoping to be able to listen to the girls and don´t screw up too much.

 

[Geordiejesus]

Yes let her put on a 3rd node. Bend her over. Tie her off. Wait a week. Start doing more. It seems intimidating but it is actually intuitive. You will see. She will tell you what to do.

Thanks for the feedback dude. Am I right to think that she has only two node atm?... I'll give her another week then I will mebbies see if she ready for her training