im glad you said that because thats actually what happens; the deeper you go into your soil beds the more acidic it becomes..generally i think its the top 4-7" of soil will read much higher than the bottom levels. Your right the media staying moist at lower depths is one reason that creates that.. with chemicals its where the metals, salts & acids (H+ ions) basically get flushed to and build up in mass amounts, and unless constantly flushed they will always continue to build up..clearly much more than the tops. Which dry basically daily/bi-daily as popped to some bottoms that never dry. Im always lost on why they tell people to water when they can stick a finger i and feel the top inch or two is dry.. I always tell people pick the pot up if you feel weight to it .. WAIT .. and don't water.. until you can feel the pot is light and needs water. Theres a point of TOO DRY clearly too but too wet is way worse for your grows.
and again yes a general good flush will reset it... all our soils have adjusters like lime or something that aid in reverting the natural soil ph back to specific level when the media drys back out.
 
:smoking: KS, I noticed the stank was lessened a great deal the next day on open bags! :thumbsup:

So really quick cheaper soil probes are the worst products out there.. they are very inaccurate not designed for our substrates and generally you can stick it in 7-8 different places and get 7-8 different readings. if your adding a 1/4 tsp to even a 1/8 TSP like you re-did it to ... (of citric acid to 1.3 gallons) your possibly way over using it. I use 1/4 tsp citric acid per 15 gallons of water to take the water from 7.2-7.3 down to 6.6.
... Whoa, wait a sec KS, firstly, I'm not using a soil pH probe to test liquids! That A8 unit, used right, will not give that bad of readings,...I'm sure you know it works on the same principle as the cheap skinny types, but it's way bigger (more surface area on testing tip) and better built,... I did test in 2-3 different places, (which is okay now, because there are no roots in there), and I'm careful about depth to make sure I hit the KS vs. base soil,... Let me preface something here: Lab equipment, testing water, chemicals/chemistry, etc. --these are not total mystery's to me, as I have a Masters in Aquaculture, so have a little faith in me please! :biggrin: -shoving a liquid only type digital pH meter into soil is NOT something I'd do, though a few noobs have done this from what I've seen at the Infirmary-:doh:... (I like that BL soil pH meter though, going to look it up and see how $$ it is!) ....The beauty of a long probe is that you can test in-pot, at any point duringthe grow, any depth, when a slurry test is impossible,... Again, our water is 200ppm /7.6 pH right now, fairly hard... I'm thinking yours is softer (what's the EC/ppm of yours?), hence the acid quantity difference, though it is a big one! But I know what I put in, and what it did to pH... A little sure does go a long way! ... Also, my HM digital pH meter is freshly calibrated, and like I said, I've tested it against the liquid drops pH test kit,-- if you have normal color vision, there's little to mistake about the readings, which I know are not very exact, but are within a couple tenths at worst,... As mentioned, I tested soil moistened with pH'ed and unpH'ed water, before planting, and the pH readings on two were plenty clear, only caveat is that they weren't let be for a day to allow the buffers to fully react,... but a drop of that magnitude from the reg. water vs pH'ed 6.6 even initially was great enough that I didn't feel comfortable using the adjusted water for moistening that day,... and the readings the next day, confirmed this further,... I'll test agin today,... I was puzzled by the KS readings as well, and I don't totally eliminate the possibility that the A8 probe is reading wrong, for whatever reason-? But I can't imagine how or why, having used it to good effect for 2 years now,.. I burned a couple Foxfarms soil rep's before, by testing their shit soil right there in the store, in-bag even--- low 5's! :nono: Tested other brands too, just to show, it's not the probe,...


our soil carries PH buffers to keep the PH range in the area it needs to be. All soils become acidic over time but your looking at such a short grow time that theres no possible way your soil has dropped that much on its own, let alone gone to something as low as 5.0 without something causing it to drop that low.... however what can and will happen is when any acids are being over used or built up over time the soils can become more and more acidic due to H+ concentration.. again IF THAT METERS CORRECT your problem would stem more from that but honestly id put money on the meter being off because its not designed to read the coir/pete substrates..
---- KS, the transplants were fresh that day, as were the readings,.. there is no "grow time" in them, obviously no built up, all of which I understand about such things over time,... Honestly, I've never heard that the A8 unit is not a valid test equipment product for use in lighter soils-- Can you expand on this please? Given how it works, why would it be an issue? ..... Using RO/DI water in testing is also understood by me, as any buffering minerals will skew results, and using clean containers, etc., free of any residues that will also skew readings,... I know you're trying to look for sources of measurement error here, and I'm trying to avoid them as best I can... I've been as explicit as possible about how I went about things, to show if there's any issues with the methodology and equipment,....
 
:smoking: KS, I noticed the stank was lessened a great deal the next day on open bags! :thumbsup:


... Whoa, wait a sec KS, firstly, I'm not using a soil pH probe to test liquids! That A8 unit, used right, will not give that bad of readings,...I'm sure you know it works on the same principle as the cheap skinny types, but it's way bigger (more surface area on testing tip) and better built,... I did test in 2-3 different places, (which is okay now, because there are no roots in there), and I'm careful about depth to make sure I hit the KS vs. base soil,... Let me preface something here: Lab equipment, testing water, chemicals/chemistry, etc. --these are not total mystery's to me, as I have a Masters in Aquaculture, so have a little faith in me please! :biggrin: -shoving a liquid only type digital pH meter into soil is NOT something I'd do, though a few noobs have done this from what I've seen at the Infirmary-:doh:... (I like that BL soil pH meter though, going to look it up and see how $$ it is!) ....The beauty of a long probe is that you can test in-pot, at any point duringthe grow, any depth, when a slurry test is impossible,... Again, our water is 200ppm /7.6 pH right now, fairly hard... I'm thinking yours is softer (what's the EC/ppm of yours?), hence the acid quantity difference, though it is a big one! But I know what I put in, and what it did to pH... A little sure does go a long way! ... Also, my HM digital pH meter is freshly calibrated, and like I said, I've tested it against the liquid drops pH test kit,-- if you have normal color vision, there's little to mistake about the readings, which I know are not very exact, but are within a couple tenths at worst,... As mentioned, I tested soil moistened with pH'ed and unpH'ed water, before planting, and the pH readings on two were plenty clear, only caveat is that they weren't let be for a day to allow the buffers to fully react,... but a drop of that magnitude from the reg. water vs pH'ed 6.6 even initially was great enough that I didn't feel comfortable using the adjusted water for moistening that day,... and the readings the next day, confirmed this further,... I'll test agin today,... I was puzzled by the KS readings as well, and I don't totally eliminate the possibility that the A8 probe is reading wrong, for whatever reason-? But I can't imagine how or why, having used it to good effect for 2 years now,.. I burned a couple Foxfarms soil rep's before, by testing their shit soil right there in the store, in-bag even--- low 5's! :nono: Tested other brands too, just to show, it's not the probe,...


---- KS, the transplants were fresh that day, as were the readings,.. there is no "grow time" in them, obviously no built up, all of which I understand about such things over time,... Honestly, I've never heard that the A8 unit is not a valid test equipment product for use in lighter soils-- Can you expand on this please? Given how it works, why would it be an issue? ..... Using RO/DI water in testing is also understood by me, as any buffering minerals will skew results, and using clean containers, etc., free of any residues that will also skew readings,... I know you're trying to look for sources of measurement error here, and I'm trying to avoid them as best I can... I've been as explicit as possible about how I went about things, to show if there's any issues with the methodology and equipment,....
i think your lost in the post i posted... at no point did i say to use a Ph meter for water to read your soil Ph.. or say your using a soil probe to test liquids. i know the exact meter your referring to. as i stated before its not made for coir and pete readings its a soil meter made more for denser soils like clay type soils.. or even more dense potting mixes..
you might want to re-read the post. or maybe I'm getting lost in what your trying to say.. if i am I'm sorry.
 
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I'm assuming there is a H+ build up occurring IF YOUR METERS reading right. But let me be really clear on how in accurate those meters are, especially direct test. just pushing that meter through layers of soil can totally screw up the readings.
....sorry man, that's how it read,... :shrug:..in my head, I think of the A8 as a probe, not a meter,... Roger that on the A8 not being designed for certain types of soil,... I just wonder why, technically speaking... Can you tell us exactly how you test the soil layers later on, when the slurry test isn't anoption anymore?
 
Again @Waira Im not discounting the meter reading but i would suggest doing something like sending a sample into an actual lab have it tested save that same soil in a sample for you and when you get the test back you can see how your meter reads compared to a lab test. You mentioned the soil is fresh all our soil starts at 6.8-6.7 range so that as time goes on the PH can drop and still remain in safe ranges.

We also pay a lab to test our left over soil consistently to make sure the levels aren't dropping to extreme levels every test we have performed on the soil after our grows are in the 6.3+- range generally at end flower. Although as you mentioned that can very due to build up etc..

you mentioned the soil wasn't even used am i correct on that? for our soil to be at 5.0 before use is literally impossible and makes me think even more theres a issue with how your meters actually reading. MSU agriculture tests our soils once a month. We pick multiple containers and generally send in 4-5 separate samples every month and pay them to make sure our soil PH is always stable with our mix. so for the soil to be 100% unused and tested at 5.0 is just more of a push to me to show the meters not reading properly.

I can grab a bag right now slice it open and show the ph is in our designed range.
 
the real thing thats making me 100% sure its not reading properly is just you mentioned the soil was brand new and used and we specifically start with high PH levels so that the soil never falls into really dangerous levels like 5.0.
 
nope, no reuse, I've never tried you soils before,.... yeah, I'm dubious about how the KS tested at 5.0 after planting, no pH'ed water use,... I tested it yesterday, right out of the bag, moistened with RO water, and the probe said 6.4- :thumbsup: --I get what you're saying about the A8, it's hard to be sure, when it seems fine with certain readings,..... for example: I started two little auto strain pots yesterday, and tested both soils initially, and then the layers in pot this morn'; base soil was 6.8, KS 6.4... within error margins as yesterdays reading,... No worries from me about the KS mate, I trust you! I just wanted you to see the raw data that matta',... if things are wonky, you will have insight as to why very likely! ** edit-- I forgot to mention, the autoflower pots base soil is from a new bag, which tested higher than usual for this brand,..
...I'll retest client pots today, and let you know what shows,... :pass: Thanks KS!
 
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