Grow Mediums Kindsoil Official Test Team Grow Battle

[Waira]

:scope: So, some thoughts and observations on pH'ing, citric acid, etc,.... I saw some citric acid at the grocery store - -- pure food grade, little bit SiO2 anti-caking agent... water at the clients is 7.6, 200ppm, dechlorinated with an in-(hose)line carbon filter,... I have watering pitchers that are about 1.3 gal, to which I added about 1/4tsp (no tiny measure spoon at the time, but my eye is good for this),... it dropped the pH to appx. 6.0-, using a good dropper type test kit; dumped it, and redid test with about 1/8tsp, and that got it to 6.6--perfect! Fairly stable overnight, only rose 0.2,... Using an Accurate 8 meter, well cleaned and let set for 2-3 min., the base soil tested at about 6.6, the RO water moistened KS 6.4+,... using the pH'ed water to moisten up test batches of both soils dropped them into low 5's! So, I didn't use pH'ed water after this,... tested today, base soils were around 6.5, but the KS in all pots was still in low 5's --- (gotta love that long probe, to dip deep into the KS zone!) ... @Kindsoil, what do you make of this? I sure hope it corrects soon, or there's going to be potential problems! Fixing pH in bi-layered soil is a non-sequitur IMO,.....save, flushing the hell out of it?! About the last thing I want to have to do,...fingers crossed it corrects soon!

>>> Sniper, I agree, a bigger test for the genetics, but how they reacted with the soil during extended darkness, with the roots through leaves in static mode, just marinating in it, with no apparent issues for the roots is an encouraging thing... as evidenced by how well the girls have rebooted bloom again!

 

[Waira]

Howdy KS- ...got your email,...

The Accurate 8 probe

--- seems to be a simple but reasonably good direct pH testing unit, accurate to +/-0.2,... I haven't put it to the ultimate test by checking it against a professional grade meter, but when used properly, I believe it to be good enough for the general testing purposes it was designed for, unlike the cheapie skinny probe meters found at garden centers which are useless... the A8 is much more robustly built, and better engineered... I think the larger surface area of the bi-metal tip is a big part of this... That said, proper soil moistness, some time in the soil, and a clean probe tip are very important to get good readings! I've compared them side by side before, and the A8 always shows better resolution/accuracy,.. this includes playing with soil samples that I've added small amounts of pH adjusters to (hydrated lime, vinegar), just to see how they responded... Cheap units are nearly oblivious to anything but dramatic inputs,...
The liquid pH test kit I've checked against a good quality HM pH meter, and it's fine, so I have confidence in using it as a general tester as well,...

 

[Pops]

Kind Soil Update
Week 8 Day 57
3 Bear

Week 8 Day 56
Grape Crinkle

Looks like winter
Week 8 Day 56
Skywalker

Looking Good
At the beginning of this I use 1.6 lbs of KS next time I will use 2 lbs, with 2 weeks + to go looks like I will run out of KS nuts before the end. Girl are taking nuts out of the leaves now.
I can work with that.
The 3 Bear has the best looking leaves nice and dark green.
The 2 GC, Skywalker are liter in color but the leave are still green.

Pops

 

[Kindsoil]

I'm finally in final pots! All 7gal currently, as mentioned before,... damn shame about the crappy bad luck start costing me the time and not being to use the 10's,... ... bit it was determined that the shortness of veg time before bloom triggers made them a waste of $$ soil! So, at least there's a couple extra in there now, or will be... 1 Acapulco Gold is still too small yet, and a 3rd has uncertain fate,... the Green Angel that was transplanted has officially stunted way out, so she's out,... but I'm very interested in this custom higher CBD strain, so I may drop another and be content with a small girlie in a 5gal or something,... I decided to try both the FairyBreaths in a 7gal, since those are likely going to be smaller and faster plants, maybe even auto, F2's have been a mix,...

holy crap, this soil reeeeeks! Not an insult mind you, the richness is clearly expressed is all- - I expected sea gulls and vultures to start circling above me while planting though...
So, the pot were set up like this: for aeration/drainage, a shallow layer of perlite at the base; then since the goodies tend to percolate downward, I put in about 1.5" of base soil on top of the perlite, to keep the bottom from being too hot (a theory), then the KS; to give some grow-in space to the new roots, I scooped out enough KS directly below the transplant bottoms to give about a couple inches of reg. soil beneath them before hitting the rich stuff, and beveled the rest a bit up the sides,...then base soil filled in around the same sized seedling cup to make a perfect shaped pocket to drop'm into- ...Snipped free of their pots, easy release,...no trauma, no drama!

>> group shot , on their roller trolly's-- View attachment 602968

>> Skywalker x White Widow- View attachment 602961

>> dual FairyBreaths-- View attachment 602962

>> first Acapulco Gold, recovered well from all the bs! View attachment 602963

>> first Flavor Grape, ditto...View attachment 602964

>> Blue Velvet-- View attachment 602965


>> Kalishnapple x Sweet Tooth- View attachment 602966

>> 2nd FG-View attachment 602967

lol yeah i know the initial smell is a issue its generally gone after a day or two it just gets built up in the bag cause the air exchange isn't as high as being in a pot where it breaths better.

 

[Kindsoil]

:scope: So, some thoughts and observations on pH'ing, citric acid, etc,.... I saw some citric acid at the grocery store - View attachment 603340 -- pure food grade, little bit SiO2 anti-caking agent... water at the clients is 7.6, 200ppm, dechlorinated with an in-(hose)line carbon filter,... I have watering pitchers that are about 1.3 gal, to which I added about 1/4tsp no tiny measure spoon at the time, but my eye is good for this),... it dropped the pH to appx. 6.0-, using a good dropper type test kit; dumped it, and redid test with about 1/8tsp, and that got it to 6.6--perfect! Fairly stable overnight, only rose 0.2,... Using an Accurate 8 meter, well cleaned and let set for 2-3 min., the base soil tested at about 6.6, the RO water moistened KS 6.4+,... using the pH'ed water to moisten up test batches of both soils dropped them into low 5's! So, I didn't use pH'ed water after this,... tested today, base soils were around 6.5, but the KS in all pots was still in low 5's --- (gotta love that long probe, to dip deep into the KS zone!) ... @Kindsoil, what do you make of this? I sure hope it corrects soon, or there's going to be potential problems! Fixing pH in bi-layered soil is a non-sequitur IMO,.....save, flushing the hell out of it?! About the last thing I want to have to do,...fingers crossed it corrects soon!

>>> Sniper, I agree, a bigger test for the genetics, but how they reacted with the soil during extended darkness, with the roots through leaves in static mode, just marinating in it, with no apparent issues for the roots is an encouraging thing... as evidenced by how well the girls have rebooted bloom again!

So really quick cheaper soil probes are the worst products out there.. they are very inaccurate not designed for our substrates and generally you can stick it in 7-8 different places and get 7-8 different readings. if your adding a 1/4 tsp to even a 1/8 TSP like you re-did it to ... (of citric acid to 1.3 gallons) your possibly way over using it. I use 1/4 tsp citric acid per 15 gallons of water to take the water from 7.2-7.3 down to 6.6.

I'm assuming there is a H+ build up occurring IF YOUR METERS reading right. But let me be really clear on how in accurate those meters are, especially direct test. just pushing that meter through layers of soil can totally screw up the readings. You should be doing something like a soil slurry for testing and either using a real high quality soil meter or at the very worst liquid tests. even liquid tests can be off.

our soil carries PH buffers to keep the PH range in the area it needs to be. All soils become acidic over time but your looking at such a short grow time that theres no possible way your soil has dropped that much on its own, let alone gone to something as low as 5.0 without something causing it to drop that low.... however what can and will happen is when any acids are being over used or built up over time the soils can become more and more acidic due to H+ concentration.. again IF THAT METERS CORRECT your problem would stem more from that but honestly id put money on the meter being off because its not designed to read the coir/pete substrates... Below is my actual soil ph meter.. it can be directly inserted but i personally do slushes with De-ionized water. I am going to go get a bottle of water really quick today and post a buch of soil tests.. a lot of them we have actual lab tests to show some control so you can see the meter is correct and i will post the results here on the forum... also in the below pics i made a quick step by step just to show you the amount we use of crystals to water and how the ph drops in 15 gallons.. which should show you that 1/8 tsp per 1.3 gallons is way overkill and could be creating the acidic soil readings.

heres the water PH photos: photo one shows the water PH meter stable at 7.0 ... photo 2 is the water PH of the 15 gallons before PH adjusting .... photo 3 is the amount of citric acid crystals being added to 15 gallons (1/4 tsp) photo 4 is me shaking the thing up and photo 5 is the final PH 6.6 after the crystals adjust.

 

[Kindsoil]

the other thing is if you do do your ph and choose to do a soil slurry you need to do it with de-ionized water. any salts or or minerals that can dissolve into negative / positive ions will cause a mis reading..

heres a cole palmer article on lab testing soils with proper soil meters.
Scoop up soil into a clean, dry plastic jar or plastic bag. Remove stones and crush any clumps of soil for better results. Gather two to three representative samples of each soil sample to confirm results. No sample preparation or preservative required.


Laboratory Testing—Method A

• 
  1. Weigh 20 g of soil sample into a 100 mL beaker.

• 
  2. Add 20 mL of deionized (DI) water and place on a stirrer to mix for 30 minutes.

• 
  3. Cover and let stand for an hour.

• 
  4. For the most accurate measurements, allow the buffers and the soil sample both to come to room temperature. (A difference in temperature will add error to your measurement.)

• 
  5. We recommend a 2-point calibration with a pH 7 and a pH 10 buffer solution. The electrode slope should be between 92 and 102%.

• 
  6. Rinse electrode and ATC with DI water and blot dry. Place probes in soil sample and measure pH and record measurement.

Alternative Testing—Method B

• 
  1. Place soil sample about ¾ full in sample jar and add distilled water to cover soil.

• 
  2. Cap jar and shake the soil vigorously a few times.

• 
  3. Let mixture stand 10 minutes to dissolve the salts in the soil.

• 
  4. Calibrate the pH tester with a pH 7 and a pH 10 buffer solution.

• 
  5. Remove the cap and place the pH tester into the wet soil slurry.

• 
  6. Measure pH and record measurement.

Results

A minor (< ±0.5 pH) difference between results of the same soil sample indicates good technique and high confidence in results.

 

[Kindsoil]

the type of meter your talking about using (accurate 8) is more for ground soil like outdoor clay or denser/heavier soils for your gardens, lawns fruit patches. Even then they aren't exact and can very due to soil temps, moisture levels, recent excessive rains.. etc.. something like the blue labs are designed for soils, grow media and substrates like coir and pete which is our soil base.

 

[Kindsoil]

So really quick cheap soil probes are the worst products out there.. they are very inaccurate and generally you can stick it in 7-8 different places and get 7-8 different readings. if your adding a 1/4 tsp to even a 1/8 TSP like you re did it to ... (of citric acid to 1.3 gallons your way over using it. I use 1/4 tsp per 15 gallons of water to take the water from 7.2-7.3 down to 6.6 I'm assuming there is a H+ build up occurring IF YOUR METERS reading right. But let me be really clear on how in accurate cheap meters are, especially direct test. just pushing that meter through layers of soil can totally screw up the readings. You should be doing something like a soil slurry for testing and either using a real high quality soil meter or at the very worst liquid tests. even liquid tests can be off. But our soil carries PH buffers to keep the PH range in the area it needs to be. All soils become acidic over time but your looking at such a short grow time that theres no possible way your soil has dropped that much let alone gone to something as low as 5.0.... however what can and will happen is when any acids are being over used or built up over time the soils can become more and more acidic due to H+ concentration.. again IF THAT METERS CORRECT your problem would stem more from that but honestly id put money on the meter being off.. Below is my actual soil ph meter.. it can be directly inserted but i personally do slashes with De-ionized water. I am going to go get a bottle of water really quick today and post a buch of soil tests.. a lot we have actual lab tests to show control so you can see the meter is correct and i will post the results here on the forum... also in the below pics i made a quick step by step just to show you the amount we use of crystals to water and how the ph drops in 15 gallons.. which should show you that 1/4 tsp per 1.3 gallons is way overkill and could be creating the acidic soil readings. View attachment 603886View attachment 603887




heres the water PH photos: photo one shows the water PH meter stable at 7.0 ... photo 2 is the water PH of the 15 gallons before PH adjusting .... photo 3 is the amount of citric acid crystals being added to 15 gallons (1/4 tsp) photo 4 is me shaking the thing up and photo 5 is the final PH 6.6 after the crystals adjust.

View attachment 603889
View attachment 603890
View attachment 603891
View attachment 603895

View attachment 603904

i just want to say one thing about this post and any new growers viewing it, that was the end of my reference solution thats why i stuck my meter into the bottle... do not do that with your meters unless its the end of the bottle.. always take the solution out and put it into a shot glass or something so you don't contaminate the reference solution.

 

[Kindsoil]

@Waira i am not in any way discounting the readings I'm just trying to show there could be a few more things at play. But let me get some deionized water today and i will get back on here this evening with some tests to show the results of different grow stages and our soil ph.

 

[Anthropolis]

All great knowledge again from KindSoil!

Waira that troubled Skywalker Kush of mine from a few months ago had developed that weird pH stratification, with normal ~6.3 on the top 2/3 and a scary ~4.8 on the bottom 1/3. (that wasn't KindSoil, and I was using General Organics nutes)

I think we concluded that two things were happening: the bottom wasn't drying (one of the effects of buildup on the bottoms of the older fabric pots), and nute water was settling down there and as some nutes were uptaken the pH was dropping. A mega flush and watering in with dolomite lime sorta saved it.

But we shouldn't have to do that fix with the correct KindSoil setup, and would probably hurt more than help right?