Grow Mediums Kindsoil introduction thread

[pop22]

I grow mainly organic, but the "Earth Juice Cyrstals" thing is misleading. Acid is Acid and no mater how you package it, organic or not, the end results are the same.

I think most gardeners need to have a better under standing of what an acid or alkaline substance is. Here is a short excerpt from Wikipedia on acid as we are concerned with it:

" An Arrhenius acid is a substance that, when added to water, increases the concentration of H+ ions in the water.[2][3] Note that chemists often write H+(aq) and refer to thehydrogen ion when describing acid-base reactions but the free hydrogen nucleus, a proton, does not exist alone in water, it exists as the hydronium ion, H3O+. Thus, an Arrhenius acid can also be described as a substance that increases the concentration of hydronium ions when added to water. Examples include molecular substances such as HCl and acetic acid."


I use whatever i have available, lemon juice, standard ph down some left over GH PH Down ( refuse to buy any GH products since their take over by Monsanto ).

And what is in GH brand PH Down??

food grade Phosphoric acid.......... EJ ph down is nothing more than a gimmick IMO.

realistically in those odd PH ranges like very alkaline id suggest just obtaining a different water source if possible but thats not always an option. so in those cases we recommend PH adjusting the water with earth juice crystals (not liquid acids like the guy did above) to at least get the water PH to neutral or slightly acidic. Fortunately most growers have water PH levels that range from 6.5-7.0 which is fine.

 

[pop22]

Even filtered, my well water killed my cannabis. PH was 7 to 7.4 on average. I used a three stage whole house filter. didn't help. So its RO and cal/mag for me. I do also buy bottled water to reduce the water waste of RO. I can get it 5 gallons for a dollar! Fill your own jug from a water treatment company. Some days, there's a line to fill your jug!

So I'll continue to use cal/mag, but at a reduced level for the kind soil, say 50 ppms just to make it easier to ph.

well i hate to get on boards and put my personal options let me be clear on that. Everyones experiences and opinions very a lot and what works best for me may not for someone else.. So that being said my PERSONAL OPION on that is this:
Ro water is what i would suggest to anyone who runs synthetics or chemical grow lines of any kind. When running a soil program i wouldn't recommend it. Anyone who has ever had RO water come out at say 8.0 PH and tried to PH adjust RO water without adding anything back into that water, you know that not only do the PH meters generally not read properly the PH can jump full points with very little adjusting. Hanna makes 300+$ Oppm meters that are designed to properly read water PH levels in 0ppm water and very few people know that.
If you run a hard water or basic carbon filtered water with chemical lines and have a ppm level of say 200 afterwards and your not equating that into your feeding then you can have issues from simple overfeeding to excess build up occurring because more is being put into the soils than directed. So having 0ppm water is important when running feeds that way.

Im anti RO water..unless theres a need for it like with chemical lines. its a waste of time and money if you ask me. You waste something like 5 gallons of water to make a gallon of RO water. If you can do a basic filter and compensate your PPM levels properly the need for RO really isn't there. you can even buy hardwater feed systems now that basically compensate for all that for you.. to an extent.. general hydro i know makes one.

a simple pre and carbon filter to pull out sediments, irons, chlorine/chloramine is really all thats needed. There clearly are negative things that need to be filtered but there are things in basic water your plants benefit from, so stripping it of everything to use with a soil grow would really be useless and un-benefical.

it all comes to how your growing and what your using feed wise IMOP

 

[pop22]

I just ordered another 4 pot system that I plan to run organic. I'll test the idea with one running Kind Soil. This will be separate from this thread but I'll post about here on occasion also.

Ive been asked this a lot, heres the issues with wicking or bottom feeders, your bottoms stay way to moist generally. I've never ran it but if its possible to switch it to a top feed, i don't see a issue but with bottom feeding a hot soil your going to keep the bases too moist to get proper rooting IMOP. but again i haven't ran it that way and just knowing if it would work would be something i would appreciate knowing because your not the first person thats asked that.

 

[Waira]

Ah!-- thanks for sharing that Kindsoil, that's the data that matta'! ...Holy poop tea, off the graph on P-K; I'm not that familiar with the testing protocol, why no info about N content? Not measurable per se, because of the variable forms (including organic) of N in soils? Ditto for Ca,.... MSU testing limitations aside,... I've not heard as much about the take-home vermins issues in those soils!--Perfect, right?! ...ass-hats,... KindSoil, never fear to lay down some solid science here! ...wise folks know, not everything is black and white, and there are so many layers of complexity and variables in each specific case, it's hard to make generalizations w/o having exceptions or some twist to the issue, mostly unknown by the folks who set about disputing things, thinking they have a handle on it, but have if fact misinterpreted and reach erroneous conclusions... Cumulative affects are often one of those things, and how dynamic soil life/chemistry is!

>> :smoking: Pop22-- stuff like that can make you start to bite the patio furniture, ay? It sure would puzzle me if you came to the Infirmary with this! - low 7's pH is hardly indicative of heavy mineral content, you'd be in the 8's, right? Just curious, what is the ppm of you water? .... I get what you say about the pH adjusting formulations; I think in the case of EJ crystals, it's a mild form of acid, citric, vs. the nitric or phosphoric often used in other formulations- which in higher conc., are fierce shit, but in pH adjusting applications, are made very weak,... It's what they do to the 'crobes, and what the 'crobes do with them, that may be behind what makes them "harsher" on the whole scene down there.... Far as I know, food grade is a purity thing in that case,... and the biggest bogus labelings, are of course, "organic" and "natural", terms which are basically N/A to such things, including Ca-Mg... something like carbonates are derived from minerals, not from technically defined organic sources-- it just doesn't apply! Maybe in the EJ, the citric acid is derived and purified from "natural" source, not whipped up in a beaker-? ... In the case of GH/GO, the CaliMagic might be fully synthesized in a lab, but carbonate is carbonate in the end,...with the GO CaMg+, I think the organic labeling is referring to the fermented sugar base the mineral carbonates are compounded into, which certainly can be defined officially as organic.... (I know, alas, GO/GH eaten by the Devil Co.! )

 

[Anthropolis]

I like the knowledge bombs! I was aware that standard pH meters were unable to properly calculate pH in absolutely pure h20, due to the ion differences, thus making it nearly impossible to accurately read thus adjust. Didn't know Hanna made a unit just for this! Steep price though, but it could be a justifiable expense on a pro level, or perhaps were doing hydro with RO/Distilled.

 

[pop22]

somewhat less expensive and maybe a fair competitor to that meter is the Extech ExStik PH100.
specs:
pH 0.00 to 14.00pH
Temperature 23 to 194°F (-5 to 90°C)
Resolution 0.01pH, 0.1°
Accuracy ±0.01pH, ±1.8°F/±1°C

I like the knowledge bombs! I was aware that standard pH meters were unable to properly calculate pH in absolutely pure h20, due to the ion differences, thus making it nearly impossible to accurately read thus adjust. Didn't know Hanna made a unit just for this! Steep price though, but it could be a justifiable expense on a pro level, or perhaps were doing hydro with RO/Distilled.

 

[pop22]

I'm excited not only to do this test, but to see what new things we learn from each other. Already we have good, productive dialog!

About auto pots, I think the biggest issue will be the density of the Kind Soil. I'm thinking that blending it with an equal part volume wise of coco might be the solution. Bottom watering is gaining popularity because of its simplicity and we need to find a way to make it work.
When I worked for HP doing field service, we were told to NEVER tell a customer I can't, it can't be fixed, or no, everything has a solution, and someone knows what it is or how to find it. I took it to heart, it fit my work ethic.
Now, Cannabis gardening has become a passion, and gardening in general! I want to know all I can, BUT, I want facts and growing is rife with myths. I think we all want to grow the best cannabis we can, as efficiently as we can, as efficiency also denotes lower costs in the long run. We will never do our best, till we shake off the myths with science. If you and I can't find scientific data, or do the science that's missing, we can be a voice to push for research!

ok, no more soapbox, and I blame this damn Blueberry Domina I've been smoking..........

 

[Kindsoil]

I spent 4 months trying to figure out what was wrong with my grows. I finally got an inkling it may be my water. So I started using bottled water and Bingo! Healthy plants! But the reason it took so long to figure out? My water works fine for my garden veggies and flowers! It only kills cannabis! Still don't know why, even had my water tested and nothing was too out of wack. So I use RO water exclusively for canna. I ph all my water to about 6.8. Never had a problem with ph since

Hmm... thats quite odd.. I do know that generally when your running organics .. TRUE organics like amended soil .. and you use stuff like RO water to feed generally the PH levels are way to out of whack to feed straight and when you try to adjust theres just more issues that occur. Theres only so much your soils can "buffer" when your water PH isn't in the neutral to slightly acidic range. All soils will always buffer acidic waters easier than they do alkaline water. You say your garden veggies are fine and canna isn't ... are your garden veggies in the exact same medium as your garden? i assume not.. your garden may have higher organic matter in it or maybe your garden soils have more clay or something that aids in buffering PH better but they are also generally exposed to a lot of rain which you don't realize it but it aids in creating a slight acidity to your ground sometimes also. All that generally can make your tap water which may carry to high of a PH for cannabis in a pot with potted soils..work properly on plants outside in the ground.

 

[Kindsoil]

I'm excited not only to do this test, but to see what new things we learn from each other. Already we have good, productive dialog!

About auto pots, I think the biggest issue will be the density of the Kind Soil. I'm thinking that blending it with an equal part volume wise of coco might be the solution. Bottom watering is gaining popularity because of its simplicity and we need to find a way to make it work.
When I worked for HP doing field service, we were told to NEVER tell a customer I can't, it can't be fixed, or no, everything has a solution, and someone knows what it is or how to find it. I took it to heart, it fit my work ethic.
Now, Cannabis gardening has become a passion, and gardening in general! I want to know all I can, BUT, I want facts and growing is rife with myths. I think we all want to grow the best cannabis we can, as efficiently as we can, as efficiency also denotes lower costs in the long run. We will never do our best, till we shake off the myths with science. If you and I can't find scientific data, or do the science that's missing, we can be a voice to push for research!

ok, no more soapbox, and I blame this damn Blueberry Domina I've been smoking..........

Id like to see the results, your right the moisture of the hot soil is the worry.. its getting that base to properly dry which will be slightly difficult since every water comes base up. but changing the actual density of the media could adjust the moister capacity enough to dry properly.

 

[pop22]

Veggies in the exact same soil! now you see why I was baffled so long! My soil is Isabelle Black Soil, coco coir, compost, lime, epsom salts, worm castings. Same mix I still use with never a problem unless I use even filtered tap water. I've tested the soil ph many times always 6.50 -7.00. all plants are in containers, I can't plant in the ground.

Hmm... thats quite odd.. I do know that generally when your running organics .. TRUE organics like amended soil .. and you use stuff like RO water to feed generally the PH levels are way to out of whack to feed straight and when you try to adjust theres just more issues that occur. Theres only so much your soils can "buffer" when your water PH isn't in the neutral to slightly acidic range. All soils will always buffer acidic waters easier than they do alkaline water. You say your garden veggies are fine and canna isn't ... are your garden veggies in the exact same medium as your garden? i assume not.. your garden may have higher organic matter in it or maybe your garden soils have more clay or something that aids in buffering PH better but they are also generally exposed to a lot of rain which you don't realize it but it aids in creating a slight acidity to your ground sometimes also. All that generally can make your tap water which may carry to high of a PH for cannabis in a pot with potted soils..work properly on plants outside in the ground.