Lighting IS IT WORTH GETTING A COB LED??

[Black Sail]

I understand what you mentioned and is in line with what I read too. Great to know it really works.

Here is my question. I get mixing 80 and 90CRI for a better spectrum as 90CRI leans more to the red side. Most will agree that the slight inefficiency of the 90CRI is offset by its spectrum. So mixing makes sense as it gives the best of both worlds. Efficiency + redder leaning spectrum.

But aren't you already adding red mono diodes?

I feel that adding CRI90 and also supplementing mono reds might be overkill. I'm gonna try with all CRI80 to get the best efficiency. But will add supplement similar to HLG35 or the RapidLed type. These red bars give out lotsa red already but as with all red, comes at an efficiency cost.

I guess what I'm trying to say is either mix CRIs or supplement with red. Doing both might lose out on efficiency disproportionately. But this is just a theory. You have way more real experience so would love to pick your brain!


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Yeah, you're 100% right. I was experimenting with a lot of different combinations, even had a 50/50 mix of 3500K and 5000K going for a while. It was too much blue though, growth rates slowed down and my nodes were so stacked they were right on top of each other!

Mixing half 3500K 80CRI with half 3000K 80 or 90 CRI is the easiest way to cover your 660nm reds. There's no need to use mono reds to supplement your 660nm, but the Cree XP-E HE Photo Reds get up to 2.3umol/J so if you have them on hand you might as well use them. No matter how low the Kelvin or how high the CRI, full spectrum COBs really don't cover 730nm red any better than a 3000K 90CRI. You might see some tiny gains in 730nm but the efficiency losses stack up way faster. So adding in some 730nm far red monos is pretty much always a good idea. You only need about 10 Watts for a 4' x 4'. Plus you want that far red on a separate channel so you can use it for flower initiation when you're growing photoperiods.

 

[Black Sail]

I just popped a chart for info only. I run Citizen 1212 3500K 90 cri with a couple of royal blue 1212s and 6 -730nm SemiLeds when using the far red. I had no idea you are a vendor and you should note that when suggest your product.

What does your PPFD chart look like at the 16" to 18" inch recommended. What Citizen cob are you running?

Thanks for the suggestion, lol yeah nobody knows who I am yet... that's slowly changing though, and in the meantime I'll try to remember to mention it.

Sounds like a great setup! I've been planning some experiments with royal blue for a long time, it ties in with another idea I had for side-lighting. That shit is important, royal blue regulates stomatal opening and using it heavily in your side lighting should make your girls grow horizontally....

For the PPFD, a single Cannon will give you ~1000 PPFD over a 2.5' x 2.5' and ~800 PPFD over a 3' x 3'. I tested it with Mike's Apogee MQ-200 when I worked at Rapid but I want to use the MQ-500 when I make my official charts. It's a $500 PAR meter so I'll get one as soon as I can The MQ-200 showed ~1100 in the middle, out to ~700 at the sides over a 2.5' x 2.5' area.

The model of the COB I'm using is out there, if you check the posts some clever cats on AFN and IG have figured it out from my specs. I'm trying to keep a lid on it for just a few more weeks until all my test grows are well established and my name is out there a little more. This is a tough industry and I want to get a running start before people start copying my design. Happy growing!

 

[Tyler_Durden88]

I use both cob and panel led. Only downside of cob is more heat. But I use that to my advantage in the winter months to help heat the growspace. And roleadro has great lights I have 7 of their lights for over two years and only had one power source fail and they sent me two power sources and a extra led panel for good measure now I have extra parts just in case. I have nothing bad to say about Roleadro. And at their pricepoint its hard to beat.

 

[Rev. Green Genes]

Yeah, you're 100% right. I was experimenting with a lot of different combinations, even had a 50/50 mix of 3500K and 5000K going for a while. It was too much blue though, growth rates slowed down and my nodes were so stacked they were right on top of each other!

Mixing half 3500K 80CRI with half 3000K 80 or 90 CRI is the easiest way to cover your 660nm reds. There's no need to use mono reds to supplement your 660nm, but the Cree XP-E HE Photo Reds get up to 2.3umol/J so if you have them on hand you might as well use them. No matter how low the Kelvin or how high the CRI, full spectrum COBs really don't cover 730nm red any better than a 3000K 90CRI. You might see some tiny gains in 730nm but the efficiency losses stack up way faster. So adding in some 730nm far red monos is pretty much always a good idea. You only need about 10 Watts for a 4' x 4'. Plus you want that far red on a separate channel so you can use it for flower initiation when you're growing photoperiods.

Mine are 3500K Vero 29, by your calculation I could either get a single center 3000k where a 4x6 had 2 vero's on the outside and one 3000k of some variety in the middle would give me full functionality?

Alternatively, I could use my mars or viparspectra for that. Thats the cheap way out most likely.

 

[Black Sail]

Mine are 3500K Vero 29, by your calculation I could either get a single center 3000k where a 4x6 had 2 vero's on the outside and one 3000k of some variety in the middle would give me full functionality?

Alternatively, I could use my mars or viparspectra for that. Thats the cheap way out most likely.

View attachment 964560

If you're rocking 3500K Vero's for full cycle growth then yes, putting a 3000K 80 or 90 CRI COB in the middle of them is a great idea as far as spectrum. Not sure about the specs on the mars or the vipar though.... I'd need more info to make a suggestion on wattage or coverage area:smoking:

 

[Black Sail]

Mine are 3500K Vero 29, by your calculation I could either get a single center 3000k where a 4x6 had 2 vero's on the outside and one 3000k of some variety in the middle would give me full functionality?

Alternatively, I could use my mars or viparspectra for that. Thats the cheap way out most likely.

View attachment 964560

Haha dude I love the frame you made for those Vero's!

 

[bakEQuatorial]

Yeah, you're 100% right. I was experimenting with a lot of different combinations, even had a 50/50 mix of 3500K and 5000K going for a while. It was too much blue though, growth rates slowed down and my nodes were so stacked they were right on top of each other!

Mixing half 3500K 80CRI with half 3000K 80 or 90 CRI is the easiest way to cover your 660nm reds. There's no need to use mono reds to supplement your 660nm, but the Cree XP-E HE Photo Reds get up to 2.3umol/J so if you have them on hand you might as well use them. No matter how low the Kelvin or how high the CRI, full spectrum COBs really don't cover 730nm red any better than a 3000K 90CRI. You might see some tiny gains in 730nm but the efficiency losses stack up way faster. So adding in some 730nm far red monos is pretty much always a good idea. You only need about 10 Watts for a 4' x 4'. Plus you want that far red on a separate channel so you can use it for flower initiation when you're growing photoperiods.

I have to say I'm loving your experience and knowledge! You have a lot to share with us imo and I'm thankful that we have a vendor who knows his shit, very well!

The reason I am thinking of adding reds:

1. I use QBs and can only feasibly purchase my lights from China/Alibaba due to location. China does not have 90CRI Samsung diodes at the moment. So I can only get 80CRI

2. My boards are long 940mm x 200mm. Adding something like the QB35 from HLG can gimme the red I need and make it separate. I can get this from China soon.
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-35

I am sorry for going off topic on QBs as you sell COBs. But I'm sure you'll offer QBs soon and when you do, i could recommend some good suppliers. Besides, the DIY is very similar with both. Driver, heatsink(or not), light source....all the same.

Ohh...and a warm welcome to AFN!


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[Black Sail]

I have to say I'm loving your experience and knowledge! You have a lot to share with us imo and I'm thankful that we have a vendor who knows his shit, very well!

The reason I am thinking of adding reds:

1. I use QBs and can only feasibly purchase my lights from China/Alibaba due to location. China does not have 90CRI Samsung diodes at the moment. So I can only get 80CRI

2. My boards are long 940mm x 200mm. Adding something like the QB35 from HLG can gimme the red I need and make it separate. I can get this from China soon.
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-35

I am sorry for going off topic on QBs as you sell COBs. But I'm sure you'll offer QBs soon and when you do, i could recommend some good suppliers. Besides, the DIY is very similar with both. Driver, heatsink(or not), light source....all the same.

Ohh...and a warm welcome to AFN!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have to say I'm loving your experience and knowledge! You have a lot to share with us imo and I'm thankful that we have a vendor who knows his shit, very well!

The reason I am thinking of adding reds:

1. I use QBs and can only feasibly purchase my lights from China/Alibaba due to location. China does not have 90CRI Samsung diodes at the moment. So I can only get 80CRI

2. My boards are long 940mm x 200mm. Adding something like the QB35 from HLG can gimme the red I need and make it separate. I can get this from China soon.
https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/collections/all/products/hlg-35

I am sorry for going off topic on QBs as you sell COBs. But I'm sure you'll offer QBs soon and when you do, i could recommend some good suppliers. Besides, the DIY is very similar with both. Driver, heatsink(or not), light source....all the same.

Ohh...and a warm welcome to AFN!


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Thanks! I'm not the best guy to ask about boards but I'm working on it. I've got a few ideas I need to dig into, but yeah there will definitely be a Black Sail strip/board available in the next year or so. I swore I would never release a light that was exactly the same as what's already on the market, unless it was somehow better or cheaper. I only want to create & offer useful, new and original products:smoking:

For your far red supplements check out the growmau5 730nm far red puck! It's half the price of the light you're looking at and it'll cover your 730nm far reds over a 3x3. The HLG strip is pretty cool, but you don't need to supplement 620nm and 660nm reds if you're using 3500K 80CRI. You can run the growmau5 puck all day without a heatsink and it's plug and play. I don't have any financial interest in it, I just think its a better buy. Plus growmau5 and Vitaly are innovators, the more you support guys like them the more you'll get to see cool new shit on the market. It's available through Amazon if that works for your location.

Happy growing my friend!

 

[Black Sail]

I use both cob and panel led. Only downside of cob is more heat. But I use that to my advantage in the winter months to help heat the growspace. And roleadro has great lights I have 7 of their lights for over two years and only had one power source fail and they sent me two power sources and a extra led panel for good measure now I have extra parts just in case. I have nothing bad to say about Roleadro. And at their pricepoint its hard to beat.

The Roleadros are definitely the best light you can get for less than $100. They're charging exactly what they should be and I respect them for that. My only issue: as far as I know the cxa3070 maxes out at around 110 watts, so the max for two would be 220 watts. It's a 36V COB and the Amazon page says the "working current" is 600mA, which would be 21.6 watts each, 21.6 x 2 =43.2 Watts. Calling it a 400W light? I'm not so sure about that.... If I'm missing something, please fill me in. Makes it confusing as fuck for everybody when I'm selling a 240W light that actually pulls 240W. Here at Black Sail we don't fuck around with specs:smoking:

 

[Archaic]

The more I use 3000k, the more I use 3000k. It just seems to hit all of the touch points for the duration of the grow. When I started digging in to learn about auxin response, I started to realize why the red end of the spectrum is where most of the work is done in both vegetative and flowering/fruiting growth.