yes Red Eye I see what you mean they are exactly the same panels, I never saw those before when i was looking,but then i stay away from chinese sites. As you say they are a lot cheaper ( probably dont have the right spectrums and dont have Bridgelux LEDs like the growNorthern ones. I wouldnt touch those with a bargepole!!! mental casings???????????????) I get the impression that grownorthern is more horticulture than weed based technology. Its really not good enough, not saying what the draw is, its like buying a car when they wont tell you the MPG and the size of the engine! Still at least you can now ask questions like that , before the internet it would be a nightmare.......CAN YOU IMAGINE!!!!