Indoor Growing Scrog

How do you flush in your style with the drip feed and reservoir and do you start the flush like based on thrichrome colour ?
 
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Bravo 420! The Maestro! Wow again. I'm a retired nurseryman and ready to follow your methods with Big Mamas, Flora Caps, net, and hand fertigate with two Jack's as mains. On my NY legal 3 whoppers (I hope). Previously I've used AM Leonard fabric bags with Bugbee peat/vermiculite media, yucca wet, hand flood and drain, and let sit for a safe 20 minutes in runoff for bottom wicking. I added wollastonite as a media silica supplement as Bugbee did. Cannot say if that helped or not but now will be supercropping with pro pliers and rockwool, so no wollastonite although could let protruding bottom roots touch some. Do you use any silica additives or think they really offer anything?
Hello @yerunclebudsy!
Happy to know you’ll be taking the leap. :thumbsup:
With your experience as a nurseryman I’m sure it’ll be a walk in the park for you. All the info for the 420 method is in this thread and there’s plenty of people around here to help.
I run General Hydroponics Armour SI (silica) from around day 21 up until a few weeks before harvest.

This is so close to what I envision mine being except mine is a 4x8 and going to have 8 plants, so how hard is it get to the rear plants, and where can I get netting with 3 inch squares
I’m already having a problem reaching the middle of the canopy in my 5x5’.
One of the main reasons I like scrogging in small single tents that unzip from all 3 sides, makes canopy maintenance and schwazzing so much easier when you can get around and above your plants. I just posted a $49 32x32” tent last week that I bought a few months ago and it unzips from all 4 sides. The was price was right and it works so well that I might have to get another one! :mrgreen:
Amazon sells a few different brands of 3.5 inch netting for about $6-8 if you’re still having a hard time finding some. I was using Home Depot 4” metal fencing to SCROG my autos in my 5x5’ a couple years ago and it held down my plants really flat but the plants are pretty much locked into the grid after they start flowering and impossible to take out whole. You basically have to cut the branches away from the grid and makes it practically impossible to get good preharvest pics. :nono:


Sounds right, genetics depending
:yeahthat:
Genetics is a big factor!
So scrogging 5-7 days after seeing your first pistils isn’t set in stone and can fluctuate depending on what you’re growing. Some cultivars have a longer preflower time so you can actually SCROG 10-12 days after you see your first pistils and some less. ILGM cultivars seem to have a longer preflower time so it’s ok to SCROG out 10-12 days after seeing pistils. It’s best to be in tune (intimate) with your plants and gauge how far along in flower you are to determine how much stretch you have left and when you should SCROG.

Looking proper as always Sensei! Some breeders i havent heard of before thats awesome! And the genetics look lively too! Cant wait to see how they turn out! High praise as always!

Thank you Brother! 👊
Crystal Caverns and South Side Genetics are small scale breeders that have a bunch of frosty Mephisto crosses in their line.
How do you flush in your style with the drip feed and reservoir and do you start the flush like based on thrichrome colour ?
I never noticed any difference when I use to flush my plants and now I’m way to busy to even think about it.
If I did want to flush I use a $12.00 aquarium pump hooked up to a 6 foot length of 1/2” irrigation tubing that I have dedicated for pump outs only. After I drain my reservoirs I fill them back up with R/O water with a PPM of 12 and manually run my timer for a hour or two and then repeat the process with fresh R/O until I get my flushed ppm down to 50. With my outdoor autos I just use a garden hose to flush.
 
Love these before-and-after shots — always impressive! Nice and clean setup btw. Looks like the last tent is about to explode. :eyebrows:
Do you actually change the feed reservoir from time to time?
I’m wondering if there could be an imbalance of nutrients over a longer period. Some nutrients might accumulate… not sure.
I change my reservoir water once every couple weeks when I’m having a hard time bringing down the EC from salt build up, but every evening when I top off my reservoirs with fresh nutes I double check my numbers and make adjustments if needed to keep everything in check.

gotta admit 420, I love the simplicity of your equipment designs and the practicality, and of course your dedication, I am certain to be following your method in my next grows, BUT I have a hell of a lot of weed to use up before I start again. I am following and learning for future use.

Many thanks for your postings and information.
Thanks @Corum59! :thumbsup:
You really don’t need fancy top dollar equipment to grow nice plants.

Hurry up and smoke all your weed Bro and get back to scrogging. Lol!

Oh man that's pure gold! thank you for that info 420, I appreciate that a lot :bighug: ! And WOW that tree trunk on that ILGM Gushers!!🤯
Yeah Bro… she’s got a far trunk on her.
That why I cut all my Flora Flex caps in half. Lol! :rolleyes1:
 
I’m already having a problem reaching the middle of the canopy in my 5x5’.
One of the main reasons I like scrogging in small single tents that unzip from all 3 sides, makes canopy maintenance and schwazzing so much easier when you can get around and above your plants. I just posted a $49 32x32” tent last week that I bought a few months ago and it unzips from all 4 sides. The was price was right and it works so well that I might have to get another one! :mrgreen:
Amazon sells a few different brands of 3.5 inch netting for about $6-8 if you’re still having a hard time finding some. I was using Home Depot 4” metal fencing to SCROG my autos in my 5x5’ a couple years ago and it held down my plants really flat but the plants are pretty much locked into the grid after they start flowering and impossible to take out whole. You basically have to cut the branches away from the grid and makes it practically impossible to get good preharvest pics. :nono:
( I just bought a 4' x 2' x 5' tall tent that unzips on front, one side, and back. Amazon: CoolGrows Grow Tent, 4x2 Feet Mylar Hydroponic Grow Tent, $66. I put the tent in the middle of the room, but am in the process of building a base for it, on casters. The rolling base will raise the tent about 8" from the floor, too. )
 
I'm just passing this along, borrowed from a Reddit post. Dr. Bruce Bugbee is one of the few scientists studying cannabis. Lot's of video interviews with him on YouTube. ( By the way, his latest recommendation for pH is 6.5, and, they are getting positive results starting cannabis warm, and ending it cool. Just like mother nature that way. )

"According to dr bruce bugbee answering this question on a reddit ama:

"In my experience, flushing only helps if the plants were overfertilized to start with. We thus do not flush in our studies. A recent study by RX Green technologies (Flushing Trial) found that users preferred cannabis that was not flushed (zero days of flushing).

My colleague Jim Faust at Clemson is studying flushing. He found a decreased yield and a small increase in cannabinoid concentration with increasing flushing (called leaching in horticulture terminology). This is likely due to what we call "yield dilution". Higher flower mass dilutes the concentration of cannabinoids."

Gw pharma, dr Ethan Russo found that depletion of nutrients in the flower endphase increases terpenes and possibly overall resin production due to starvation and drought stress. Terpenes and resin are protection mechanisms to safeguard the plant from the environment and pest or pathogens. Along their studies they found french lavender has the highest market value due to its intense fragrance. This fragrances is developed because the plants grow in highly depleted soil, where the roots have to dig deeper for nutrients than otherwise, if i remember correctly. When applying this principle to cannabis they were able to increase terpene and resin content. As far as i remember they didn't flush but created their grow medium to deplete nutrients naturally towards the end of flower and lwt them get really dry the last days for the plant to produce a thicker protective layer of resin keeping it from drying out. Sadly it was at a live talk by Ethan Russo, i attended and i forgot how the study was called he was referring to.

To sum it up, if you have too much nutrients in the soil, yes, flushing can increase quality.

If your plants are grown on a low nutruent regimen flushing has no effects and may rather be counterproductive keeping the plant wet excessively where dryness would increse resin load."
 
I change my reservoir water once every couple weeks when I’m having a hard time bringing down the EC from salt build up, but every evening when I top off my reservoirs with fresh nutes I double check my numbers and make adjustments if needed to keep everything in check.


Thanks @Corum59! :thumbsup:
You really don’t need fancy top dollar equipment to grow nice plants.

Hurry up and smoke all your weed Bro and get back to scrogging. Lol!


Yeah Bro… she’s got a far trunk on her.
That why I cut all my Flora Flex caps in half. Lol! :rolleyes1:

My EC is also building up at the reservoir
in 6th week of flower

I start with 1.7 EC maybe and when the water is gone to the girls 70% my reservoir EC shows 3.5 to 4. So I just dropped more water in the reservoir.
So the EC meter shows me maybe only salts as a number?

I thought it might be nutrition lock out but is it really the salts? Can they even get nutrition lock out in Drip feed with coco and hydro?

Ive been having problems with the small size of the buds they havent been growing since 5th week.

Still my d soil meter shows more than 1500ppm of P and K when the the EC is like over 3

What else does the salt do, lock out nutrition intake?

I have a trouble understanding the situation.
 
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My EC is also building up at the reservoir
in 6th week of flower

I start with 1.7 EC maybe and when the water is gone to the girls 70% my reservoir EC shows 3.5 to 4. So I just dropped more water in the reservoir.
So the EC meter shows me maybe only salts as a number?

I thought it might be nutrition lock out but is it really the salts? Can they even get nutrition lock out in Drip feed with coco and hydro?

Ive been having problems with the small size of the buds they havent been growing since 5th week.

Still my d soil meter shows more than 1500ppm of P and K when the the EC is like over 3

What else does the salt do, lock out nutrition intake?

I have a trouble understanding the situation.

EC=tds(total dissolved solids) when the elements are not dissolved they are salts. What the plant doesn't eat get's left in the media and then when it drys back that turns to back into salts. Having a good amount of runoff daily or weekly flushes help with this. If your over feeding that can lead to a build in the pot over time which causes the imbalance and the lockout and yes totally possible in coco/hydro:pass:
 
EC=tds(total dissolved solids) when the elements are not dissolved they are salts. What the plant doesn't eat get's left in the media and then when it drys back that turns to back into salts. Having a good amount of runoff daily or weekly flushes help with this. If your over feeding that can lead to a build in the pot over time which causes the imbalance and the lockout and yes totally possible in coco/hydro:pass:
This is my soil data from d soil meter

last feed 15min drip feed was like 45min ago from this data.

It does not show extra N P or K so can it be that there is extra salts from leftovers still and the meter does not show it and that cloggs up the nutritiens uptake?

Either way im flushing today but just trying to understand the process that I can learn from this and do it right the next time?

My flowering started at the end of November.

Not much size growht has happened in the last 1.5 weeks.

My ec is rising in the reservoir from 1.7 to 3-4 when 70% of water is used.

in the start of flower my ec had been more than 2 for a few weeks where the extra nutritiens might have been put in the soil.

some of the buds are ok sized but none wrist sized and some are smaller but nothing like 420method should produce maximally. Those all big fat buds....
 

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So I asked AI your original question to see if I was explaining it right and if it could explain it better this is what AI said


It sounds like you're facing a combination of issues, but let's break them down step by step to get a clearer picture of what's happening.

EC Build-Up and Salts​

The EC (electrical conductivity) meter measures the total concentration of salts (nutrients) in your solution. When you're seeing your EC rise from 1.7 to 3.5–4 as your reservoir gets used up, it suggests that the plants are taking up water but not the nutrients in proportion, which causes the salt concentration to increase. This is quite common, especially in systems like hydroponics or coco with drip feed, as the plants take up more water than they do nutrients.

As for the EC meter reading mainly "salts," it's important to remember that it doesn’t differentiate between good and bad salts. High EC doesn't necessarily mean it's only salts the plants need; it can also reflect an excess of certain nutrients that may cause issues.

Nutrient Lockout​

While high EC can indeed contribute to nutrient lockout, it doesn't always happen in the way you might think. Nutrient lockout occurs when certain elements (like calcium, magnesium, or potassium) are present in excess or are out of balance, preventing plants from absorbing other essential nutrients. However, a straight-up EC of 3.5–4 isn't necessarily a direct cause of lockout, but it's definitely high, and could indicate that your nutrient mix is out of balance or that the plants are overwhelmed by salts.

Problems with Bud Size and Growth​

If the buds have stopped growing since week 5, it's possible that nutrient uptake has been impaired. Too much salt in the root zone can hinder the plant's ability to take in necessary elements like phosphorus, potassium, or calcium, all of which are vital for flower development. Here's a breakdown of potential issues:

  1. High EC (Salt Build-Up): When the EC is high in your reservoir, it means that salts are accumulating. High salt concentrations can cause osmotic pressure changes that make it harder for roots to take up water and nutrients, even if they're present. This can stunt growth, particularly in later flowering stages when the plant requires more phosphorus and potassium to develop buds.
  2. Nutrient Imbalance: Since your soil meter shows high levels of phosphorus (P) and potassium (K), it might indicate that the plants are getting more of these elements than they can absorb. A build-up of excess nutrients can cause toxicity or lockout of other critical nutrients like nitrogen or calcium, leading to poor growth.
  3. pH Imbalance: If you're not adjusting your pH regularly, it could be affecting nutrient uptake as well. In coco, the pH should typically range between 5.8 to 6.2, as this is the optimal range for nutrient absorption. A pH outside of this range could make certain nutrients less available to the plant, further contributing to nutrient deficiencies.

Potential Causes and Solutions:​

  1. Flush the System: A good practice when EC gets too high is to flush the system with plain water (pH-balanced) to reset the environment. This will help reduce excess salts in the substrate and lower EC. After flushing, you can feed with a lower EC solution to gradually bring the plants back to an optimal range.
  2. Adjust Nutrient Ratios: Ensure that your nutrient mix is balanced for the flowering stage. High phosphorus and potassium can be good, but if you're in the 6th week of flower, the plants still need enough nitrogen, calcium, and magnesium. Too much K and P can inhibit calcium uptake, which may lead to deficiencies.
  3. Monitor pH and EC Regularly: Continue checking both EC and pH regularly. For coco, your EC should generally stay between 1.2 and 2.2 during the early and mid-flowering stages. At the end of flowering, you can push the EC higher, but excessive EC can stress the plants.
  4. Watering Strategy: If you're seeing a high EC build-up, consider watering the plants more frequently but with a smaller volume of nutrient solution each time. This can help prevent salt build-up in the substrate. You might also want to top up the reservoir with just water, to help balance the salt concentration.
  5. Check for Root Issues: Over time, high salt concentration can lead to root damage or poor root function. Make sure your roots are healthy—look for any signs of root rot or discoloration. If roots are affected, a root-zone cleaner or a light hydrogen peroxide solution can help.

Understanding the Salt Effect​

Excessive salts in the root zone can indeed create a kind of "nutrient lockout" by altering the osmotic balance and preventing water from being properly absorbed by the roots. However, lockout also tends to occur when there's a mismatch between nutrient ratios, where the plant cannot efficiently use the available nutrients due to competition for uptake.

In your case, the main problem seems to be an accumulation of salts, especially with high EC in the reservoir, which might be inhibiting nutrient uptake. When this happens, the plants stop growing and start showing symptoms of nutrient deficiencies, even though there's a lot of phosphorus and potassium available in the medium.

Final Thoughts​

It looks like your EC might be too high, and this is likely contributing to the reduced bud size and overall slow growth. By flushing the system to lower the salt concentration and adjusting the nutrient mix, you should be able to get your plants back on track.

If you have any more specific details, like the pH levels or if you’ve noticed other symptoms on the plants (e.g., leaf color change, yellowing, or curling), that could help further refine the advice.
 
So I asked AI your original question to see if I was explaining it right and if it could explain it better this is what AI said


It sounds like you're facing a combination of issues, but let's break them down step by step to get a clearer picture of what's happening.

EC Build-Up and Salts​

The EC (electrical conductivity) meter measures the total concentration of salts (nutrients) in your solution. When you're seeing your EC rise from 1.7 to 3.5–4 as your reservoir gets used up, it suggests that the plants are taking up water but not the nutrients in proportion, which causes the salt concentration to increase. This is quite common, especially in systems like hydroponics or coco with drip feed, as the plants take up more water than they do nutrients.

As for the EC meter reading mainly "salts," it's important to remember that it doesn’t differentiate between good and bad salts. High EC doesn't necessarily mean it's only salts the plants need; it can also reflect an excess of certain nutrients that may cause issues.

Nutrient Lockout​

While high EC can indeed contribute to nutrient lockout, it doesn't always happen in the way you might think. Nutrient lockout occurs when certain elements (like calcium, magnesium, or potassium) are present in excess or are out of balance, preventing plants from absorbing other essential nutrients. However, a straight-up EC of 3.5–4 isn't necessarily a direct cause of lockout, but it's definitely high, and could indicate that your nutrient mix is out of balance or that the plants are overwhelmed by salts.

Problems with Bud Size and Growth​

If the buds have stopped growing since week 5, it's possible that nutrient uptake has been impaired. Too much salt in the root zone can hinder the plant's ability to take in necessary elements like phosphorus, potassium, or calcium, all of which are vital for flower development. Here's a breakdown of potential issues:

  1. High EC (Salt Build-Up): When the EC is high in your reservoir, it means that salts are accumulating. High salt concentrations can cause osmotic pressure changes that make it harder for roots to take up water and nutrients, even if they're present. This can stunt growth, particularly in later flowering stages when the plant requires more phosphorus and potassium to develop buds.
  2. Nutrient Imbalance: Since your soil meter shows high levels of phosphorus (P) and potassium (K), it might indicate that the plants are getting more of these elements than they can absorb. A build-up of excess nutrients can cause toxicity or lockout of other critical nutrients like nitrogen or calcium, leading to poor growth.
  3. pH Imbalance: If you're not adjusting your pH regularly, it could be affecting nutrient uptake as well. In coco, the pH should typically range between 5.8 to 6.2, as this is the optimal range for nutrient absorption. A pH outside of this range could make certain nutrients less available to the plant, further contributing to nutrient deficiencies.

Potential Causes and Solutions:​

  1. Flush the System: A good practice when EC gets too high is to flush the system with plain water (pH-balanced) to reset the environment. This will help reduce excess salts in the substrate and lower EC. After flushing, you can feed with a lower EC solution to gradually bring the plants back to an optimal range.
  2. Adjust Nutrient Ratios: Ensure that your nutrient mix is balanced for the flowering stage. High phosphorus and potassium can be good, but if you're in the 6th week of flower, the plants still need enough nitrogen, calcium, and magnesium. Too much K and P can inhibit calcium uptake, which may lead to deficiencies.
  3. Monitor pH and EC Regularly: Continue checking both EC and pH regularly. For coco, your EC should generally stay between 1.2 and 2.2 during the early and mid-flowering stages. At the end of flowering, you can push the EC higher, but excessive EC can stress the plants.
  4. Watering Strategy: If you're seeing a high EC build-up, consider watering the plants more frequently but with a smaller volume of nutrient solution each time. This can help prevent salt build-up in the substrate. You might also want to top up the reservoir with just water, to help balance the salt concentration.
  5. Check for Root Issues: Over time, high salt concentration can lead to root damage or poor root function. Make sure your roots are healthy—look for any signs of root rot or discoloration. If roots are affected, a root-zone cleaner or a light hydrogen peroxide solution can help.

Understanding the Salt Effect​

Excessive salts in the root zone can indeed create a kind of "nutrient lockout" by altering the osmotic balance and preventing water from being properly absorbed by the roots. However, lockout also tends to occur when there's a mismatch between nutrient ratios, where the plant cannot efficiently use the available nutrients due to competition for uptake.

In your case, the main problem seems to be an accumulation of salts, especially with high EC in the reservoir, which might be inhibiting nutrient uptake. When this happens, the plants stop growing and start showing symptoms of nutrient deficiencies, even though there's a lot of phosphorus and potassium available in the medium.

Final Thoughts​

It looks like your EC might be too high, and this is likely contributing to the reduced bud size and overall slow growth. By flushing the system to lower the salt concentration and adjusting the nutrient mix, you should be able to get your plants back on track.

If you have any more specific details, like the pH levels or if you’ve noticed other symptoms on the plants (e.g., leaf color change, yellowing, or curling), that could help further refine the advice.
is there a proper way to check the roots at this time of grow?
 
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