Grow Mediums ChilLED Tech 400 light with Auto Pots and 6 auto ladies

[Mañ'O'Green]

This 5.8 for hydro has been bugging me for weeks. But every where I looked every single place said 5.8 for hydro. and Mine is the purest type of hydro too. What bugs me is that 5.8 is under the limit for Magnesium, Calcium and Iron. Today, I'm just trusting what I know and that is my phenomenal grows in the 90's used 6.3. Today I'm back at 6.3. And best of all, I've got an open root system so I can tell by the roots if there's a problem. I'm not expecting a problem.

I will now go off down a rabbit hole as I do a thorough search to see if I can find any science at all as to why hydroponic needs .5 lower pH than soil. Show me the money.

I have been growing hydro for years. Regardless to your research I can verify the range for hydro in cannabis is 5.5 to 6.5. If you get outside of this range you will have troubles. As a practical application I run 5.6 to 6.2 This gives me a little leeway top and bottom. I also Make my PH roam around in the range. This allows the PH to pass through the best uptake zones for all of the nutrients over a couple of days.

The reason for different PH for soil vs Hydro has to do with the osmotic pressure and the ionic root uptake. It is very complex chemistry. I read it once years ago. A lot of it just shot over my head but by the end of the scholarly article I just accepted it as good science.

 

[pop22]

I understand that plants convert ATP into Hydrogen ions and exchange them for N. So on the surface low PH ( below say 6.0 ) would mean that the plant would have a lowered ability to exchange H+ as there is a fairly high level already. Osmosis only balances solutions via the movement of water through the membrane. Osmosis doesn't not move ionic nutrients, those all pass though other portals in the roots. PH changes quickly in conventional pots because of the depletion of water through evaporation and transpiration. PH I believe goes down as water is depleted. PH testing of runoff is suspect and likely only usable as information if you see a major PH discrepancy, say going in at 6.5 and coming out at 5.0. I believe this is another advantage of auto pots especially with soil, a more consistent PH level in the rootzone.

I'm sure there is much more to it but Occum's Razor seems to point to possible errors or misconceptions in this area. Guess a further look into this will be added to my reading agenda.......lol!

I have been growing hydro for years. Regardless to your research I can verify the range for hydro in cannabis is 5.5 to 6.5. If you get outside of this range you will have troubles. As a practical application I run 5.6 to 6.2 This gives me a little leeway top and bottom. I also Make my PH roam around in the range. This allows the PH to pass through the best uptake zones for all of the nutrients over a couple of days.

The reason for different PH for soil vs Hydro has to do with the osmotic pressure and the ionic root uptake. It is very complex chemistry. I read it once years ago. A lot of it just shot over my head but by the end of the scholarly article I just accepted it as good science.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I understand that plants convert ATP into Hydrogen ions and exchange them for N. So on the surface low PH ( below say 6.0 ) would mean that the plant would have a lowered ability to exchange H+ as there is a fairly high level already. Osmosis only balances solutions via the movement of water through the membrane. Osmosis doesn't not move ionic nutrients, those all pass though other portals in the roots. PH changes quickly in conventional pots because of the depletion of water through evaporation and transpiration. PH I believe goes down as water is depleted. PH testing of runoff is suspect and likely only usable as information if you see a major PH discrepancy, say going in at 6.5 and coming out at 5.0. I believe this is another advantage of auto pots especially with soil, a more consistent PH level in the rootzone.

I'm sure there is much more to it but Occum's Razor seems to point to possible errors or misconceptions in this area. Guess a further look into this will be added to my reading agenda.......lol!

Like I said the scientific explanation was long winded and assumed a chemistry PHd. The takeaway was that there is a valid reason for the difference in Hydro PH vs Soil PH. They even went into the microbes that are breaking down the nutrients for absorption in the soil. It was years ago (1980?) and I do not have a clue what/where the article might be.

The real proof for me is what has happened to my plants when the PH is out of range. No PHd needed to see a sick plant.

 

[The Iconoclast]

I have been growing hydro for years. Regardless to your research I can verify the range for hydro in cannabis is 5.5 to 6.5. If you get outside of this range you will have troubles. As a practical application I run 5.6 to 6.2 This gives me a little leeway top and bottom. I also Make my PH roam around in the range. This allows the PH to pass through the best uptake zones for all of the nutrients over a couple of days.

The reason for different PH for soil vs Hydro has to do with the osmotic pressure and the ionic root uptake. It is very complex chemistry. I read it once years ago. A lot of it just shot over my head but by the end of the scholarly article I just accepted it as good science.

Thanks for that, I don't get much roaming because I'm only growing one plant with a 25 litre reservoir in hydro using GH, so they do stay pretty constant, but I am going to start topping up with only rainwater which should do two things. 1. Because it doesn't put any ppm into my solution I can monitor the actual plant uptake of nutrients, and 2. It is naturally acidic. Yeah the wandering pH makes sense because that's sort of what happens in nature. The if the soil gets a bit too alkaline and some nutrients get locked up a bit, then the rain comes and unlocks them.

 

[The Iconoclast]

@manogreen, I might add that unfortunately we always seem to have to cross check scholarly stuff too, unless it rock hard science like particle physics. As an example I still see people being told that calcium in milk is good for strong bones. Not many people seem to dispute that, until I bought a heavy duty university produced volume that pointed out that milk actually reduces your bone mass.

WTF? Apparently what you need to do is not add calcium to your bones but to stop your bones losing calcium. The pH value of the blood is one of those homeostatic mechanisms like blood sugar, that are so deadly if they wander out of their ideal range that the body has two antagonistic mechanisms that push against each other. One of the mechanisms to counter a low blood pH is for the body to leach magnesium and calcium salts which are stored in bones. Milk has an acidic effect on blood. Citrus fruits have an alkaline effect on blood, which is also counter intuitive. I'm not even saying this is correct but there you go.

Here's another great example. I wanted to understand the tides and I studied a whole bunch of scholarly articles but it turns out that they were all wrong!

 

[MysterioN]

@manogreen, I might add that unfortunately we always seem to have to cross check scholarly stuff too, unless it rock hard science like particle physics. As an example I still see people being told that calcium in milk is good for strong bones. Not many people seem to dispute that, until I bought a heavy duty university produced volume that pointed out that milk actually reduces your bone mass.

WTF? Apparently what you need to do is not add calcium to your bones but to stop your bones losing calcium. The pH value of the blood is one of those homeostatic mechanisms like blood sugar, that are so deadly if they wander out of their ideal range that the body has two antagonistic mechanisms that push against each other. One of the mechanisms to counter a low blood pH is for the body to leach magnesium and calcium salts which are stored in bones. Milk has an acidic effect on blood. Citrus fruits have an alkaline effect on blood, which is also counter intuitive. I'm not even saying this is correct but there you go.

Here's another great example. I wanted to understand the tides and I studied a whole bunch of scholarly articles but it turns out that they were all wrong!

Great info man!

@Mañ'O'Green also....

I have a question regarding RO water since we are on the topic of PH. Is it an issue to drink it with a PH of 5.9? Normal body PH is 7.4 and it’s pretty quick to adjust to incoming fluids...... just curious if I should add a calcite/alkaline filter to my system and raise the ph closer to 7.4?

I know it doesn’t do a whole lot for minerals because of the low contact time in the filter, I get most of that from food/vitamin anyways, but the PH increase would be there.

Thoughts?

I don’t want higher then 7.4 though, don’t need my body producing acid to counter alkaline water lol!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Thanks for that, I don't get much roaming because I'm only growing one plant with a 25 litre reservoir in hydro using GH, so they do stay pretty constant, but I am going to start topping up with only rainwater which should do two things. 1. Because it doesn't put any ppm into my solution I can monitor the actual plant uptake of nutrients, and 2. It is naturally acidic. Yeah the wandering pH makes sense because that's sort of what happens in nature. The if the soil gets a bit too alkaline and some nutrients get locked up a bit, then the rain comes and unlocks them.

Unless you live in the countryside with really clean air do not use rainwater. If you live in or near a city chances are your rain water will have contaminants we do not want to ingest in our meds.

People all over the world drink water at all sorts of PH.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Great info man!

@Mañ'O'Green also....

I have a question regarding RO water since we are on the topic of PH. Is it an issue to drink it with a PH of 5.9? Normal body PH is 7.4 and it’s pretty quick to adjust to incoming fluids...... just curious if I should add a calcite/alkaline filter to my system and raise the ph closer to 7.4?

I know it doesn’t do a whole lot for minerals because of the low contact time in the filter, I get most of that from food/vitamin anyways, but the PH increase would be there.

Thoughts?

I don’t want higher then 7.4 though, don’t need my body producing acid to counter alkaline water lol!

I am not a doctor but your stomach acid is already 1.5 to 3.5 PH and we take antacids that are ~10 PH and food that is everywhere in between. Perhaps over long exposure there could be some effect but basically we have evolved to handle that.

I just realized you are drinking the same water you are giving your plant. A lot of wells run ~6 PH and municipalities run 6.5 to 8.5.

 

[MysterioN]

I am not a doctor but your stomach acid is already 1.5 to 3.5 PH and we take antacids that are ~10 PH and food that is everywhere in between. Perhaps over long exposure there could be some effect but basically we have evolved to handle that.

I just realized you are drinking the same water you are giving your plant. A lot of wells run ~6 PH and municipalities run 6.5 to 8.5.

Same water! You bet.

My incoming water is at 6.8PH (180ppm) and after RO it goes to 5.8PH (12ppm)

They use fluoride and chlorine in the water though so that’s why I have an RO system.... along with filtering out other contaminants.

I was just wondering if a PH closer to 7.4 is better for the body vs routinely drinking water at 5.8. I’ll have to do some research! I know some guys have said that a calcite/alkaline filter does raise the ph 1.0- 2 .0

 

[The Iconoclast]

Something that is counter intuitive is that to raise or lower the pH of your blood you need to understand that this is one of those absolutely vital homeostatic body mechanisms. So like an oven thermometer that senses the temperature you set it at and when it reaches that temp it switches off and when it senses it has dropped below it switches on. This is good enough for some body processes that are not that critical. There are other body homeostatic balance mechanisms that are so critical that they have one mechanism to push it up, and a separate mechanism to push it down. These antagonistic mechanisms are used for things like blood sugar and blood acidity and body temperature. Blood pH is one of these mechanisms that are too critical to allow you to fuck with it. You cannot influence your body pH directly by swallowing pH up or pH down.

Now you must understand that there are acid foods and alkaline foods, but that is not what affects the pH of your blood, what you want are foods that have an acid or alkaline forming effect on the body. For example, citrus fruits are acid, but the effect they have on the body is to make the blood more alkaline. Dairy produce is often an alkaline food but the effect it produces on the body is acid forming.

The way that your body controls for too low pH of the blood is to leach alkaline salts of calcium and magnesium out of your bones. So milk not only does not give you strong bones, it makes your bones weaker, contrary to the propaganda of the dairy industry. So if you want to avoid an acid condition of the blood then do not eat acid forming food. For example Almonds are acid forming, Walnuts are acid forming.