Dutch Passion 4xABBs in a scrog under a GN MS0006 rebel

[dirty budster]

You have convinced me, I'll give the epsom salts another try.

I'm not sure about going hydro since I don't have a lot of space. The tent is inside a pantry only slightly bigger than the tent so there is no space left outside. I'll look into it though.

As for the nutrient dose, I was not quite sure how much to give since they're still pretty small but on the other hand deficient. When I grew them last time under CFL they were light feeders and I stayed with 2/5 almost throughout the whole grow.

 

[Happy Horticulturist]

Yip your more powerful GN0006 with Rebels module is going to make them use nutrients faster than the CFL hence you'll need to up the nutrients. Good luck with the epson salts. All they will do now is stop it from getting worse, it wont' fix what's already gone yellow, but it will stop it spreading and it will make new growth nice and green. Remember to spray the undersides especially, when the plants are not too hot and don't spray your electrics and lights. Spray them every day, twice a day even for the first few days. Every 7 days you should spray them with just clean water.

re: hydroponics and space: With a flood and drain or dripper system the reservoir can go under the pots. So there's no need for a tank outside. You will of course lose some vertical space however. Food and drain is cool because when it floods it's saturates the medium (hydroton usually) giving it a bit of a wash and depositing new nutrients. When it drains the gravity of the water pulling down through the bottom of the pot pulls air down into the pot as it goes. Kinda like a gravity bong. So it's actually very good for aeration. Dripper systems don't have this advantage but if you use a very airy medium, like 50/50 coco/perlite, the dripper system is constantly giving them nutrients which is great because they're less likely to get deficiencies and if they do you can fix it much quicker. Plus in both systems because they are active recirculating hydroponics you can keep an eye on the PH and EC of the reservoir and it will tell you exactly where the plants are at.

Here's a video of a flood and drain system

As you can see there are variations you can use in flood and drain, not all flood and drain systems are the same. As long as you have the basic concept of the pump and pipe which pump water into the flood container and an overflow pipe which sits just below the top level of the flood container which allows the nutrient solution to drain back into the reservoir below (before the flood container overflows and water goes everywhere), then you can make it almost however you want.

When I was doing flood and drain I was doing it inside a wardrobe with either a 250 watt or a 400 watt light and two small / medium mother plants. One was in dirt, one was in soil and the flood and drain one just went massive.

Now if you could find two containers big enough to fit inside your wardrobe one on top of the other and leave you enough space for your lights and growing height, you're good to go. You just need some basic fittings, rubber grommets to hold the fittings and a small basic cheap pump. A PH pen and EC meter and hydroton and you're away

 

[dirty budster]

Day 32

Things are starting to pick up. I noticed quite a bit of new growth. It's been 2 days since the last feeding and I have been giving them a daily foliar feed with Epsom salts (I solved it in near boiling water and I haven't seen any undissolved crystals so thanks for the tip Happy).

I don't think I will do a lot of scrogging this time. I might just spread them out a bit and let them grow up. I can let them grow about 20-25cm above the screen before they get too close to the light. The main stems are about 10 cm above the screen now and I don't expect them to get much taller.

They are starting to look a bit hungry already so I probably could have added more nutes. I'm expecting the next feeding to be in 2-3 days. I will definitely up the nutes then. I'm wondering if I can even go up to 80% strength for one feeding and then back off again.

 

[Grim Reefer]

Be carefull man in my experience with ABB they like it at just about half strength at most. Go up bit by bit at a time dont over do it.

 

[Happy Horticulturist]

Part of the problem here in my opinion is that the feeding isn't regular enough. It's better to feed little and often in my opinion. How much nutes did you feed on your last feeding? I'm glad the Epson salts thing is working out for you and finally they're starting to grow again. Lets make sure they stay that way and take action immediately. Let me know how much you've feed them the last few days and maybe an updated pic.

 

[dirty budster]

Alright, I'll go easy on the nutes. I will just slightly up them to 3/5. I wish I could feed them more often but the pots are drying out so slowly. Before last feed it took 6 days to dry. Since they started growing I think it will be shorter this time, around 4 days. Temperature is in the 26C/79F range and humidity is 40-50%, which should be ok I think.

Last feeding, 3 days ago, I gave them 2/5 (2ml/l) of veg nutes (NPK 3-2-3) and a full dose of cal-mag. The feeding before that was 6 days earlier and I gave them 1/4 veg nutes and 1/2 dose cal-mag.

Here is a picture from today:

 

[Grim Reefer]

I agree with happy Hort, It seems like your waiting to long for the pots to dry out and the girls are in need of a feed thats why they are being so heavy on the cal/mg its because they didnt get enough of it the first time. 6 days is a long time for the pots to dry out. I water at about 500ml for seedlings and it only takes 3 days at most to completely dry up, but then again that is Hps so i guess its slightly different with leds. If your nutes are chemical, i dont recommend you go much higher with your dosage, i know with the Last Two Auto BB's I grew, they never liked a full strength feeding, even when they were in full flower. Work your way up to half and keep it there but thats just my opinion, do what you feel is best. Dont know why dude but im not seeing your pictures at the moment, i was up untill now.
With cal/mg your probably want to work it this way.... week 3 - half strength, week 4 full strength, in flower double it.

 

[Happy Horticulturist]

Briain could it be because you're using HPS and they're drinking water faster, drying up faster, getting fed more often, sucking up nutes more that they required a lower dosage. Where as DB's plants aren't drinking as fast, not getting up as much nutes, so maybe need a higher dosage than your plants did?

I think if they're looking underfed, keep upping the feed every watering until they stop looking under fed. I wouldn't worry personally about not going over half strength of anything like that, I'd just take it based on what your plants in your environment are saying to you. I think as long as you're upping the nutes bit by bit every week (or several days, doesn't have to be a week specifically) so you can see what's happening you're good. If they are dark green then perhaps back off just a little bit, if they starting losing the dark green, then up it a bit. If they get burnt tips then back off a bit.

Definitely next time I'd look into adding a crap load more perlite to the mixture so the soil drys out quicker so you can feed more often and maybe putting and airstone in the bottom of the pot even. That or going hydro.

Also I'm the same as Briain I didn't see your last photo at all. I know the site is acting up so that could be it. I've been told they're going to upgrade to the lastest Bulletin Board software sometime soon and I really hope they do.

 

[Grim Reefer]

It might be man but im seeing pretty much the same thing with other Growers that are using Leds, most wont go over half ( if they are checmical) and if they do its only now and again but rare enough. Thats why i give my advice i am aware of hps being different and thats probably why my soil drys alot faster but im always studying the forum especially about cal/mg, so thats just my two cents. But as im saying try it out yourself and see what happens, and sorry for confusing you DirtyBudster.

 

[dirty budster]

Briain could it be because you're using HPS and they're drinking water faster, drying up faster, getting fed more often, sucking up nutes more that they required a lower dosage. Where as DB's plants aren't drinking as fast, not getting up as much nutes, so maybe need a higher dosage than your plants did?

I think if they're looking underfed, keep upping the feed every watering until they stop looking under fed. I wouldn't worry personally about not going over half strength of anything like that, I'd just take it based on what your plants in your environment are saying to you. I think as long as you're upping the nutes bit by bit every week (or several days, doesn't have to be a week specifically) so you can see what's happening you're good. If they are dark green then perhaps back off just a little bit, if they starting losing the dark green, then up it a bit. If they get burnt tips then back off a bit.

Definitely next time I'd look into adding a crap load more perlite to the mixture so the soil drys out quicker so you can feed more often and maybe putting and airstone in the bottom of the pot even. That or going hydro.

Also I'm the same as Briain I didn't see your last photo at all. I know the site is acting up so that could be it. I've been told they're going to upgrade to the lastest Bulletin Board software sometime soon and I really hope they do.

I will see if I can get a hold of some perlite for the next grow. I think part of the reason they dry out so slowly is also that they were stunted early and they're still pretty small so they're not drinking a lot. Last grow with CFL I was watering every 3 days and I thought that was acceptable.

It might be man but im seeing pretty much the same thing with other Growers that are using Leds, most wont go over half ( if they are checmical) and if they do its only now and again but rare enough. Thats why i give my advice i am aware of hps being different and thats probably why my soil drys alot faster but im always studying the forum especially about cal/mg, so thats just my two cents. But as im saying try it out yourself and see what happens, and sorry for confusing you DirtyBudster.

Don't worry about it Briain, I don't mind a bit of discussion, it's not an exact science after all It's a shame you can't see the pictures anymore, I'm not sure what I can do about that as they're still visible to me.

I gave them another feeding yesterday, after 4 days without, I upped the nutes to 3/5 and increased the cal-mag to about 1.3 times the full dose as I'm still seeing Mg def on some of the newer leaves. Hopefully it's not too much. I'm really starting to think that the roots are poorly developed as after last feeding I saw quite a bit of growth for 2 days and then it slowed down again. Now 1 day after the watering I'm starting to see some growth again and the plants are perking up. It's weird.