Would Anyone be interrested in me posting results of Techniques used on auto's

[Epic Genetics]

i defoliated for 20+ years because we believed what you and others believe , i couldnt believe the improvement i seen when i stopped due to someone telling me 10-15 years ago it was not the right thing to be doing , and no i dont have pics for you as we werent into the habbit of taking pics of our crops to show them off 30-35 years ago , hell hardly anyone had a camera back then

imho and from my experiences i truely believe that anyone benifitting from defoliation hasnt got thier environment set up properly , take for example a buddy of mine , he has a single 1000 hps in a room the same size as i have 3 400's , when i go in my room i have a hard time finding a shadow anywhere , light is blasting all around , bouncing from one wall to another and from the floor to the ceiling , i dont get shaded bud the way he does , his few plants directly under his 1000 look great , the rest ,,,,,,,, not so great , i also tripple the yeild he does and he is growing the same clones/plants as me (always my clones/seeds)

anyway , just my experiences with defoliation and 30+ years growing

peace

 

[Skunky Smurf]

i defoliated for 20+ years because we believed what you and others believe , i couldnt believe the improvement i seen when i stopped due to someone telling me 10-15 years ago it was not the right thing to be doing , and no i dont have pics for you as we werent into the habbit of taking pics of our crops to show them off 30-35 years ago , hell hardly anyone had a camera back then

imho and from my experiences i truely believe that anyone benifitting from defoliation hasnt got thier environment set up properly , take for example a buddy of mine , he has a single 1000 hps in a room the same size as i have 3 400's , when i go in my room i have a hard time finding a shadow anywhere , light is blasting all around , bouncing from one wall to another and from the floor to the ceiling , i dont get shaded bud the way he does , his few plants directly under his 1000 look great , the rest ,,,,,,,, not so great , i also tripple the yeild he does and he is growing the same clones/plants as me (always my clones/seeds)

anyway , just my experiences with defoliation and 30+ years growing

peace

i understand the camera thing took me a lonnnnnnnnng time to post pics again after an incident w/ me a santa suite and a large sativa decorated for x-mas years ago.... but while i was an admin on another forum w/ muddy he coinvinced me it was better than it used to be
i went from a member to an admin w/o showing one single pic of a plant so i must have an idea of what i speak from time to time
and honestly i run into this often when discussing experiences i have had many years ago people want right there proof as scientific
and i understand experiences will vary due to the skillset of the grower from time to time
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about age it is pointless as far as credentials go mine are more than capeable of growing a weed??I promise
i used rockwool when it was only in wall insulating i've even tried rolls of carpet and tons of other mediums
look i'm not trying to create an issue just put an end to the blanket myth people have "heard" from somebody

As far as the example of your friend are you telling me that you have 1200 watts to his 1000 watt and it is coming from multiple directions
so you have a higher overall wattage , multiple point of lights angles and you can put them lower due to the heat issues
well of course you would get better overall light and after thirty years i would hope you would yield far better than the other setup
this goes back to specific example
400's are more effecient just more expensive to buy three lights instead of one now this is totally off topic but in my thread so ok
if you didn't yield more of course there would be something wrong
Maybe if i make this easier to visualize it would be easier to understand we are not talking equipment we are talking simply theese techniques
if you go to the beach you hold an umbrella your friend does not you would get a more severe reaction to the more intense sun
if you block your head w/ the umbrella but your feet are exposed to the sun well...don't they get burnt and not your head???
was that because the sun is more intense no one part of you is shadded from the light wre talking about to grow
i also said this wasn't the same across the board like compairing your system to your friends like they are the same???
I would think a man of your experience would atleast compair apples to apples by now if you truely wanted "tested" results
well the PROOF is in the pics so far the natural plant is far behind in size
and from my somewhat limited knowledge of plants i believe generally a larger plant has the better ability to yield more
aside of internode stretch making it appear the plant is larger
like i said before the plant offers the fans up as the first sacrifice to preditors and continues to grow in nature fine and we are not discussing nature here we are talking about artificial nature which is being manufactured by us
and depending on the strain it can be quite difficult getting through the leaf canopy to lower /medium branch sites
i believe this is where alll the confusion really arises from to begin w/
it is considered common practice to cut the lower branches off because they are less productive and popcorny
well if they are then you don't have your situation dialed in appropriately
but i think you may see why i am running this as a post it is hard to find correct doccumented evidence
sorry this is gonna sound rude and it isn't intended to it is to mearly point out the fact that things can get confusing w/ all the things in a growroom

but it is hard to take specifics as advise contradicting pictured multiple results as not the way it is and then in two scentences one spans the gap of 10-15 years being the same as 30-35 years so i don't know how reliable any of the opinions expressed are valid as pictured information

At this point i am confused you continue to not mention things from my post like you haven't read the info and just posted your opinion???
Opinions are great and everyone has one but i am trying to keep this to what actually happens w/ the plant not speculating on what should occur

 

[Skunky Smurf]

Trust me for many years and alot of trial and error people told me what couldn't or shouldn't be done
Where are they all now probably sailing off the edge of that flat world they are still looking for the end of i guess

 

[Skunky Smurf]

I came into this late but isnt LST for getting light to places it doesnt normally reach? that way it gets more light to lower parts but still has the fan leaf for food. I dont believe in taking off any part of the plant that isnt completely dead.

LST is also to make light distribution more even throughout the garden creating a more even and lower canopy so the light may be lowered uniformly to increase lower branch penetration
and the intensity of the light increases to the overall garden if it is lower than taller
but when the plant it horizontal then all the sitesfight for the new supremecy of the main so they all try too grow to be the master cola but no none of this would happen if the sideways plant didn't offer more leaf contact w/ the light by exposing it from underneath the fan leaf

 

[Epic Genetics]

i understand the camera thing took me a lonnnnnnnnng time to post pics again after an incident w/ me a santa suite and a large sativa decorated for x-mas years ago.... but while i was an admin on another forum w/ muddy he coinvinced me it was better than it used to be
i went from a member to an admin w/o showing one single pic of a plant so i must have an idea of what i speak from time to time
and honestly i run into this often when discussing experiences i have had many years ago people want right there proof as scientific
and i understand experiences will vary due to the skillset of the grower from time to time
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about age it is pointless as far as credentials go mine are more than capeable of growing a weed??I promise
i used rockwool when it was only in wall insulating i've even tried rolls of carpet and tons of other mediums
look i'm not trying to create an issue just put an end to the blanket myth people have "heard" from somebody

As far as the example of your friend are you telling me that you have 1200 watts to his 1000 watt and it is coming from multiple directions
so you have a higher overall wattage , multiple point of lights angles and you can put them lower due to the heat issues
well of course you would get better overall light and after thirty years i would hope you would yield far better than the other setup
this goes back to specific example
400's are more effecient just more expensive to buy three lights instead of one now this is totally off topic but in my thread so ok
if you didn't yield more of course there would be something wrong
Maybe if i make this easier to visualize it would be easier to understand we are not talking equipment we are talking simply theese techniques
if you go to the beach you hold an umbrella your friend does not you would get a more severe reaction to the more intense sun
if you block your head w/ the umbrella but your feet are exposed to the sun well...don't they get burnt and not your head???
was that because the sun is more intense no one part of you is shadded from the light wre talking about to grow
i also said this wasn't the same across the board like compairing your system to your friends like they are the same???
I would think a man of your experience would atleast compair apples to apples by now if you truely wanted "tested" results
well the PROOF is in the pics so far the natural plant is far behind in size
and from my somewhat limited knowledge of plants i believe generally a larger plant has the better ability to yield more
aside of internode stretch making it appear the plant is larger
like i said before the plant offers the fans up as the first sacrifice to preditors and continues to grow in nature fine and we are not discussing nature here we are talking about artificial nature which is being manufactured by us
and depending on the strain it can be quite difficult getting through the leaf canopy to lower /medium branch sites
i believe this is where alll the confusion really arises from to begin w/
it is considered common practice to cut the lower branches off because they are less productive and popcorny
well if they are then you don't have your situation dialed in appropriately
but i think you may see why i am running this as a post it is hard to find correct doccumented evidence
sorry this is gonna sound rude and it isn't intended to it is to mearly point out the fact that things can get confusing w/ all the things in a growroom

but it is hard to take specifics as advise contradicting pictured multiple results as not the way it is and then in two scentences one spans the gap of 10-15 years being the same as 30-35 years so i don't know how reliable any of the opinions expressed are valid as pictured information

At this point i am confused you continue to not mention things from my post like you haven't read the info and just posted your opinion???
Opinions are great and everyone has one but i am trying to keep this to what actually happens w/ the plant not speculating on what should occur

the "10-15 years being the same as 30-35 years" you quoted is this ,,,,, 30-35 years is growing experience , the 10-15 is how long ago i stopped defoliating , your comment about not thinking i actually read your posts works both ways as i explained this in my post , it started where i said i actually defoliated for 20 years before someone told me not to anymore

as for my example of my set up and my friends , it wasnt off topic as you claimed , it was one example given by me as to why i believe a persons growing environment could be why defoliation works for them when it doesnt for others like myself

and as for you expecting i would yeild more then him due to my running 1200 watts to his 1000 watts , did you notice where i said i tripple the yeild he does , thats a vast improvement for only an extra 200 watts

anyway , instead of continually making claims (pointing fingers at me) of "speculating" and "opinions not being valad "i wish you had of read that reply of mine that you quoted with an open mind as i truely believe it may have FINALLY pin pointed this debate and why some believe one way and some believe the other

also, about the pics, imo they are nice to see but do nothing or very little to prove anything , they arent 3D and many things can alter the way a picture is taken such as distance , angle , ect ect

your latest reply ,,,,, "Trust me for many years and alot of trial and error people told me what couldn't or shouldn't be done
Where are they all now probably sailing off the edge of that flat world they are still looking for the end of i guess" , realy seems like you are trying to poke me with a stick

i began growing useing defoliation, i continued that way for 20 years , and have now gone around 15 or so without defoliating (other then once in a while to experiment even though my results always come back the same) is that not enough years of trial and error testing for you to respect my experiences and opinions enough to put that stick down ?

peace

EDIT : the beach story of course makes sence , but how much light does the umbrella block ? is it a good one or a cheap thin one ? Leaves only absorb about 15% of the solar energy that hits them, the other 85% passes through-- but they reflect all the green light, which means it looks darker below the leaf to a human than it does to the plant because our eyes are most sensitive to the green spectrum (Shipperke, 03.15.2002).

 

[Skunky Smurf]

My friend lets back this up to others it could be understood as arguing (please imagine my arm around your shoulder) and not discussing
ok that being said
i understand the things you said and how you wrote them while seeming condescending to me and my experiences and techs that you are unfamuliar to but,, on my post i would appreciate a situation where people didn't chime in w/ nothing other than antiquedotal experiences they are everywhere
and as for coming on my post and then hinting at the fact i would also possibly manipulating the photopraphs or angles simply for what gain

I am not trying to bump heads or argue but... I will surely defend myself when apparently my intergity is at stake over what
i don't care one way or the other and have stated this isn't for every situation as compaired to one apparently because they tried to do something similiar to the same tech as one of them posted that they already know the final outcome of everysituation because of experience???
My friend i have plenty of experience i have been actively breeding for around thirty years
i knew how to care for plants before i knew what they were and had a passion for them ever since.
i have thrown away more over the years than some will grow in a life time so i aswell have alittle experience also and never questioned your truthfullness maybe just your practices and comparisons of techniques

But seeing as how at this point you would question my integrity on my thread i would kindly asy you to no longer post under my thread thankyou

 

[Epic Genetics]

it wasnt a dig at your pics , just pics in general , it is nowhere the same as seeing them in real life , i take you for your word , not for your pics , i do apreciate pics though , dont get me wrong

the comment about distance and angle ect ect wasnt a dig at you , just fact , they arent 3D so we truely do not see the plants the way they are , sorry if it offended you , it wasnt ment to and wasnt ment the way you thought , things can be lost mistranslated when not speaking live , sometimes forums cause fights they arent ment to lol

peace

p.s , hopefully i can still post in your thread , i think even with the miscomunication we are getting somewhere TOGETHER :buds:

p.s.s we seem a lot alike , i grew up with this plant , i dont know life without it , i was helping mom water soon as i was able to lift the watering can , and took my first clone (she called em clippings) at 10

 

[Mossy]

Hey budz..don't kick off now please.
I have a load of work to do so all the new forums can go Live on New Years Day....:thumbs:..don't wanna spoil it for everybody..

:smokebuds:

 

[Skunky Smurf]

it wasnt a dig at your pics , just pics in general , it is nowhere the same as seeing them in real life , i take you for your word , not for your pics , i do apreciate pics though , dont get me wrong

the comment about distance and angle ect ect wasnt a dig at you , just fact , they arent 3D so we truely do not see the plants the way they are , sorry if it offended you , it wasnt ment to and wasnt ment the way you thought , things can be lost mistranslated when not speaking live , sometimes forums cause fights they arent ment to lol

peace

p.s , hopefully i can still post in your thread , i think even with the miscomunication we are getting somewhere TOGETHER :buds:

p.s.s we seem a lot alike , i grew up with this plant , i dont know life without it , i was helping mom water soon as i was able to lift the watering can , and took my first clone (she called em clippings) at 10

I agree 100% on all accounts i am very often constrewed as a sarcastic prick (well that is true) but anyway alot gets rinsed as conflict as it is hard to gain our social q's that we rely on in society more than we usually realize from a screen and often i am misunderstood most of the time
i am not a skeptic at heart i just always want to know how something works also and people brush it as skeptical of everything so understood
really no hard feelings after intent was understood
it is also hard to condense the pages of things that you can say in the time it takes to type it out so ideas get washed away alot of times

You and your experience are welcomed here
as a good start do you mind sharing some of the specific downfalls ou saw as i have not really had the time to post general observations i have recorded and the other plants in the mix

 

[Skunky Smurf]

Hey budz..don't kick off now please.
I have a load of work to do so all the new forums can go Live on New Years Day....:thumbs:..don't wanna spoil it for everybody..

:smokebuds:

Thanks mossy for the quick whistle but honestly all things said there is a reason for the whistle
Sounds like alls good sorry this is the first i have chatted w/ you i know you are seriously buzy w/ keeping AFN the great place it is

I am really not for or against i am for proper application of techniques for specific situation of garden limits and love all input

I hoped alot of people would share as indepth as possible a technique or modification to a "standard" tech and when/not to apply it in there experiences