Indoor Which nutrients??

[TshirtNinja]

That's not right. The pH requirements are different, but it's no less important in soil than in hydro. Cannabis can't grow in pH 4 in soil or hydro. I know you know there's a range that they thrive and it's different in soil vs hydro, but please don't say it's not as important in soil to check it. That'll give new comers the wrong message and spread nonsense.

with normal tap water and not using a whole bottle of nutrients your ph swing in soil isnt enough to warrant ph'ing unless your just anal and trying to dial in the best possible grow. the difference in yield will be minimal. i tried both ways and didn't see much of a difference. if its on a large scale its worth doing IMO, and from experience its around 2% difference yield. im not suggesting anyone just do this until you check your starting water ph at least one time.

 

[mydanksstank]

I'm a ph hater. But I do check, just not always. I am a slave to nothing but a water bucket.

cdc i seriously just spit a whole mouthfull of soda all over my labtop i couldnt help laughing my ass off when i first saw that.toatly wasnt expecting anyone to just be outright about things. cracks me up haha. im all for just checking to make sure its in that magical range.. as far as having it dead balls accurate ..i never do...although i never have 6 ounce plants either. so its amater of how much time you have to sit there and fiddlefuck around with your set up along with what exactly your trying to grow for yano.. for me i just do it casue i love everything about it.. no need for me to be scientific and perfect. and im sure its like that alot..one day ill get super seirous but for now im still learnign so thats the least of my worries

 

[BigBuddha]

with normal tap water

Woah there. When you say normal tapwater.. that's a pretty broad stroke. Different region's tapwater can vary wildly and in some places is totally unsuitable for growing cannabis from the tap. Certain parts of Spain, for example.. the growers there have to use an RO system.

It's pretty risky to say that all tapwater is the same and therefore needs no adjustment, because any newbies reading this may throw caution to the wind and spend months and hundreds of pounds in different nutes and mediums trying to figure out that their tapwater was the problem all along.

If a grower is feeding at a ph of 5.5 all the time and the soil starts to drop that low.. how is the plant ever going to get to the phosphorous, magnesium and calcium that it needs when they're all locked-out at those ph ranges? It's scientifically impossible.

 

[mydanksstank]

miss information = death to cannibus.

 

[AndyBotwin]

Yep, with my first indoor grow I followed the "it's a weed, just water it and don't worry about anything else" school of thought. Mainly because I'm lazy and I wanted to believe that it was that easy. I had a crap soil meter that was stuck on 7, so I was blissfully unaware of what was actually happening in the medium. By the time I had fed veg nutes for a couple of weeks, my soil pH had gone down below 5 and my plants got totally ravaged by lockout. I don't doubt that some people can get by without ever worrying about pH, but that doesn't apply to everyone. After I treat my tap water to remove the chloramines, it's at around 7.5. When I add a normal feeding of nutes, it drops down close to 5. I guess I don't have the magic water that I keep reading about. And I can tell you from first hand experience that watering and feeding with solution that's so far off from the ideal range absolutely can ruin your grow. Maybe it won't for everyone, but it can.

Woah there. When you say normal tapwater.. that's a pretty broad stroke. Different region's tapwater can vary wildly and in some places is totally unsuitable for growing cannabis from the tap. Certain parts of Spain, for example.. the growers there have to use an RO system.

It's pretty risky to say that all tapwater is the same and therefore needs no adjustment, because any newbies reading this may throw caution to the wind and spend months and hundreds of pounds in different nutes and mediums trying to figure out that their tapwater was the problem all along.

If a grower is feeding at a ph of 5.5 all the time and the soil starts to drop that low.. how is the plant ever going to get to the phosphorous, magnesium and calcium that it needs when they're all locked-out at those ph ranges? It's scientifically impossible.

 

[BigBuddha]

Yep, with my first indoor grow I followed the "it's a weed, just water it and don't worry about anything else" school of thought. Mainly because I'm lazy and I wanted to believe that it was that easy. I had a crap soil meter that was stuck on 7, so I was blissfully unaware of what was actually happening in the medium. By the time I had fed veg nutes for a couple of weeks, my soil pH had gone down below 5 and my plants got totally ravaged by lockout. I don't doubt that some people can get by without ever worrying about pH, but that doesn't apply to everyone. After I treat my tap water to remove the chloramines, it's at around 7.5. When I add a normal feeding of nutes, it drops down close to 5. I guess I don't have the magic water that I keep reading about. And I can tell you from first hand experience that watering and feeding with solution that's so far off from the ideal range absolutely can ruin your grow. Maybe it won't for everyone, but it can.

I don't know about you, but the ec of my tapwater is over 0.9 and ph 8.2 after dechlorination (7.8 beforehand), so I have a really shitty time with deficiencies caused by not being able to add enough feed and still stay under 1.6ec, OR.. I have to live with excess calcium locking out mag. IF I use just nutes, I'm ok.. the moment I go anywhere near anything that has calcium in it I get mag lockouts, so if I use seaweed in anything it has to be very light.

I can use plain tapwater fine if I grow in batmix, round pots and small autos because I never need to add nutes until the last coupla weeks. The medium sorts out the ph.

HOWEVER.. if I aerate that water it rises to over 8.2ph.. and that little bit extra throws out the medium's ability to buffer and I get mag lockouts. Again.

All of this is down to my shitty tapwater.

 

[TshirtNinja]

Woah there. When you say normal tapwater.. that's a pretty broad stroke. Different region's tapwater can vary wildly and in some places is totally unsuitable for growing cannabis from the tap. Certain parts of Spain, for example.. the growers there have to use an RO system.

It's pretty risky to say that all tapwater is the same and therefore needs no adjustment, because any newbies reading this may throw caution to the wind and spend months and hundreds of pounds in different nutes and mediums trying to figure out that their tapwater was the problem all along.

If a grower is feeding at a ph of 5.5 all the time and the soil starts to drop that low.. how is the plant ever going to get to the phosphorous, magnesium and calcium that it needs when they're all locked-out at those ph ranges? It's scientifically impossible.

this is why i said normal tap water..... thats why i said to check it once first..... i specifically said to CHECK IT. but once you do and find out you have NORMAL TAP WATER (ph 7.3-6.7) then your going to be ok. i never said Hey everyone just throw whatever in your soil. you put words in my mouth. also soil with the proper bacteria can self adjust pretty well most of the time. to those using soiless medium and hydro you NEED to ph every time. but honestly a soil mix that isnt just garbage can tolerate the ph difference and buffer it to the plant. i would never suggest to just put 5ph water or 9ph water on your plants but again if your tap water is NORMAL then you dont have an issue. and andy idk what nutes you use but that ph drop doesnt sound good at all. some hot nutes you got there fella

 

[AndyBotwin]

I don't know about you, but the ec of my tapwater is over 0.9 and ph 8.2 after dechlorination (7.8 beforehand), so I have a really shitty time with deficiencies caused by not being able to add enough feed and still stay under 1.6ec, OR.. I have to live with excess calcium locking out mag. IF I use just nutes, I'm ok.. the moment I go anywhere near anything that has calcium in it I get mag lockouts, so if I use seaweed in anything it has to be very light.

Damn, that sucks. I don't have an EC meter, but the PPM of my tap water is around 130-160 which sounds way better than yours. So I guess you do a lot of foliar feeding with epsom salts to get around the mag lockouts?

 

[Cave Dirt Cody]

"All ph themselves in 5.8 to 6.1 in tap water"

Whats the PH of your tap water on its own ?

My tap water came in at 90 ppm and 6.6 ph. I have seen 110 and 125 ppm, but the ph is always with in a point. I am lucky to live in a place where good water is plentiful.

 

[BigBuddha]

this is why i said normal tap water..... thats why i said to check it once first..... i specifically said to CHECK IT. but once you do and find out you have NORMAL TAP WATER (ph 7.3-6.7) then your going to be ok. i never said Hey everyone just throw whatever in your soil. you put words in my mouth. also soil with the proper bacteria can self adjust pretty well most of the time. to those using soiless medium and hydro you NEED to ph every time. but honestly a soil mix that isnt just garbage can tolerate the ph difference and buffer it to the plant. i would never suggest to just put 5ph water or 9ph water on your plants but again if your tap water is NORMAL then you dont have an issue. and andy idk what nutes you use but that ph drop doesnt sound good at all. some hot nutes you got there fella

Oh.. erm.. if I'm putting words in your mouth it wasn't intentional so I apologise for that.


However, if you say things like this:

with normal tap water and not using a whole bottle of nutrients your ph swing in soil isnt enough to warrant ph'ing unless your just anal and trying to dial in the best possible grow.

.. whic is just not the case for all grows..

And:

if your tap water is NORMAL then you dont have an issue

.. which can be demonstrated with a huge amount of science to be not entirely true statements for every grower.. then it seems fair to challenge them.

If you remove any nuances in my post that gave the impression that I was using hyperbole to reflect what you said, then what's left is me saying that you're still wrong to use such a broad brush to talk about ph and soil grows. Even if the tapwater is good - and as you've just pointed out to Andy - not all nutes are good without adjustment.

You also hadn't qualified your statement - at that time - that one would need to have a good quality soil mix as well. So, at the time you made your post and I responded to it, those elements weren't present in your statement.

And considering the VAST choice in soil micxes and nutrients.. how can anyone realistically say that if the water is good then no ph adjustment is necessary?

Well.. the answer is that they can't really, because the variation in water supplies, nutrients, soil mixes and even environmental factors like air-quality all affect the ph in the soil. Having good tapwater isn't enough on its own to address all those issues that affect soil ph, and since it's the ph in the soil - not the feed - that really matters.. proper ph adjustment in soil grows is absolutely essential for some people.


Not trying to pick a fight fella.. but the science, and logic, on this one doesn't lie.