Lighting What should be on a grow light review?

The only thing that matters to me, or should matter to most is the most important part of the light. The actual diode, or cob and it’s efficiency. Most of the above requests are easily manipulated numbers. Par in a graph, sphere, tent, mirrored room. The type of par meter used can easily cause higher numbers, there are also correction factors all meters require you to factor in. If it’s not the readings will register higher. Lenses and reflectors can cause higher par in a smaller area. Reasons lasers are so bright. Efficiency multiplied by wattage gives you the total amount of light emitted. There isnt an easy way to compare lights besides wattage, efficiency and spectrum.


Like vehicles, gas mileage is important. Efficiency is a very similar spec. If it gets 10 miles per gallon, people need to know. If it puts out 20% light per watt people should know. The problem I see is most don’t know how to calculate efficiency.

Hope this helps, if not it can be removed.
 
Ok, just saw the banner and want to put my :2cents: in. I'm late so forgive any duplicates....

This is all LED/COB because that is all I have run. Also, some are ideas for the template and some is information to manufacturers or things reviewers might look for. And in no particular order because I am figh as huck.
  • Spectrums: I think we should agree on a common way of measuring them, even if it hertz us.
  • Functional Square Area
  • Effective distances from canopy, where are the sweet spots? (for our favorite plant of course.)
  • COB or MCOB
  • Lenses? Type?
  • Heat/controls. Temp at canopy
  • Actual draw as well as watts total, each clearly defined
  • Something like what wattage the lights are driven at (i.e. 100w running at 60% capacity.)
  • Expected productive lifespan
  • Modular parts (ease of maintenance and repair)
  • Side by side? i.e. new HID beside ModelX- same setup, strain, all that stuff.
Some manufacturers: One thing I am tired of seeing is "1000W equivalent", "model 500" or other foggy marketing tactics.

All manufacturers: examples of S/M/L applications
Info re other crops- a few people here grow other herbs and veggies

jeez, I promised only 2 cents worth....<blush> like I said. Figh as Huck.

 
Wow!!
Tons of good input. I did not see this mentioned. I want to see a review that has a completed grow at least. The more time with a unit the better; specs are great, love specs and they do help a lot but as folks are saying they don't tell the whole story. I want to see the light grow something. I want to see it grow our favorite plant!
 
Wow!!
Tons of good input. I did not see this mentioned. I want to see a review that has a completed grow at least. The more time with a unit the better; specs are great, love specs and they do help a lot but as folks are saying they don't tell the whole story. I want to see the light grow something. I want to see it grow our favorite plant!
You no we have done this already right?
 
What information do you think grow light makers should include on their product descriptions for grow lights?

What is useful? What charts are useful to accompany the information?

Devil's advocate, what information can be skewed? What can be manipulated? How can that be verified?

PPF?
PPFD?
PAR?
WATTS?
Efficiency/Efficacy?
Spectrum?


What makes you NOT want to buy a grow light? What makes you go "ohh, more of THIS crap, no thanks?"

Wanna know what burns my ass? Other than a three foot tall flame?
It's walking into a hydro store, or opening an online webpage, and seeing watts equivalent. WTF is watts equivalent? A grow store squirt tried to argue with me that LED's are so much more efficient that I can replace a bazillion watt HID with a 5 watt LED. I told him to grow up and go back to school before I became violent :)
When I started indoor growing about 18 years ago, the only option available was HID. You used metal halide bulbs for veg and high pressure sodium for bloom. And there were a few well established parameters for comparison shopping. Side comment, I felt fortunate to have purchased Greg Green's "The Cannabis Grow Bible"; it actually rated HID bulbs of various manufacturers by a few parameters that were mostly understandable for laymen (and red-eyed stoners whose eyes were bleeding on their shirt):
Watts told me how much it would cost to run the light, and how big the electrical circuit needed to be.
Lumens told me, in simple terms most could understand, how "much" light was being put out; i.e. some were more efficient than others.
PAR watts - this was going borderline to the lighting engineers, but still I could understand that was a measure of usable light as seen by the plant.
CCT was the color spectrum of the light, in degrees Kelvin. You needed to remember that 2900K was warm for bloom and 5500K was daytime for veg. About as technical, but still manageable, as your typical grower needed to get.
Now since then LED's have come along and granted, seem to be an improvement. But there's so much f%$#I#@ bullshit with LED's, how's a non-lighting engineer supposed to make heads or tales out of it???
The starting argument was that LED's are so much better than HID because LED's can be tailored to provide the specific light spectrum that's most usable by the plant. Sounds good, huh? There were even some rather impressive color rendering charts showing what the plant liked the most. But the plant never told me that - just the guy trying to sell me a new lighting technology. And how did the LED manufacturers apply this magic sauce of how to tailor a light spectrum to fit a light? They put red and blue LED's in their products. That's really scientific. Then some LED manufacturers started using only white LED's - the argument being that a white light is a full spectrum and is most efficient. Somebody's lying. Or everyone is telling the truth?????
Then they said this is a 700 watt LED. It used a 5 watt LED. And sure enough, if you counted all the LED's there were 140 of them. Only when you plugged it into a Kill-A-Watt it measured 325 watts.
Then there were the claims that LED's are cooler (that's true, they are more efficient too), but they didn't tell you how much cooler, i.e. how much heat would this light generate? Where's the BTU rating? Tell me something I can use.

What I'm trying to say is, the majority of growers can't interpret what it means for the lens angle of an LED or the spectrum of the LED's in nanometers. I shouldn't have to give a shit. There should be a measurable equivalent to the "old" ways of measuring light. LED's did not change what light is. It didn't change the color spectrum that plants need. It didn't change heat generated (yes, LED's do still put out heat). I should be able to apply the same standards to LED lighting as I used to do to HID. The technical specifications absolutely need to be there so the smart people can tell us how this light performs in comparison to the other light I might be thinking of buying.
These parameters are important to how a light is made and what it will deliver for us. But the average layman will not know how to interpret the technical fine print. So please, let's have our lighting engineers and scientists dumb this down for us to a level we can all understand. Tell me why a Cree is better than an Epistar; if I believe you then I can make that a search criteria. But if Cree is really better, why is Epistar still in business? (Price point, I know). But let's get back to basics rather than trying to make all of us lighting engineers. And if you are a lighting engineer, I love you, Man (or more if you're a Woman ): ), and I need all the help you can give me. Just don't tell me how to build the light, make me smart enough to compare one and make the manufacturers adhere to a common set of standards. Like watts, lumens, PAR watts, CCT/CRI/or whatever parameter ends up measuring how effective their light is at growing weed.

Oh... one other thing... if the life expectancy of an LED is 50,000 hours, why do they fail at 2,000 hours? Or 200? Smells like someone stepped in the bullshit.

OK, I'm gonna shut up now, but I feel better
:deadhorse:
 
Wanna know what burns my ass? Other than a three foot tall flame?
It's walking into a hydro store, or opening an online webpage, and seeing watts equivalent. WTF is watts equivalent? A grow store squirt tried to argue with me that LED's are so much more efficient that I can replace a bazillion watt HID with a 5 watt LED. I told him to grow up and go back to school before I became violent :)
When I started indoor growing about 18 years ago, the only option available was HID. You used metal halide bulbs for veg and high pressure sodium for bloom. And there were a few well established parameters for comparison shopping. Side comment, I felt fortunate to have purchased Greg Green's "The Cannabis Grow Bible"; it actually rated HID bulbs of various manufacturers by a few parameters that were mostly understandable for laymen (and red-eyed stoners whose eyes were bleeding on their shirt):
Watts told me how much it would cost to run the light, and how big the electrical circuit needed to be.
Lumens told me, in simple terms most could understand, how "much" light was being put out; i.e. some were more efficient than others.
PAR watts - this was going borderline to the lighting engineers, but still I could understand that was a measure of usable light as seen by the plant.
CCT was the color spectrum of the light, in degrees Kelvin. You needed to remember that 2900K was warm for bloom and 5500K was daytime for veg. About as technical, but still manageable, as your typical grower needed to get.
Now since then LED's have come along and granted, seem to be an improvement. But there's so much f%$#I#@ bullshit with LED's, how's a non-lighting engineer supposed to make heads or tales out of it???
The starting argument was that LED's are so much better than HID because LED's can be tailored to provide the specific light spectrum that's most usable by the plant. Sounds good, huh? There were even some rather impressive color rendering charts showing what the plant liked the most. But the plant never told me that - just the guy trying to sell me a new lighting technology. And how did the LED manufacturers apply this magic sauce of how to tailor a light spectrum to fit a light? They put red and blue LED's in their products. That's really scientific. Then some LED manufacturers started using only white LED's - the argument being that a white light is a full spectrum and is most efficient. Somebody's lying. Or everyone is telling the truth?????
Then they said this is a 700 watt LED. It used a 5 watt LED. And sure enough, if you counted all the LED's there were 140 of them. Only when you plugged it into a Kill-A-Watt it measured 325 watts.
Then there were the claims that LED's are cooler (that's true, they are more efficient too), but they didn't tell you how much cooler, i.e. how much heat would this light generate? Where's the BTU rating? Tell me something I can use.

What I'm trying to say is, the majority of growers can't interpret what it means for the lens angle of an LED or the spectrum of the LED's in nanometers. I shouldn't have to give a shit. There should be a measurable equivalent to the "old" ways of measuring light. LED's did not change what light is. It didn't change the color spectrum that plants need. It didn't change heat generated (yes, LED's do still put out heat). I should be able to apply the same standards to LED lighting as I used to do to HID. The technical specifications absolutely need to be there so the smart people can tell us how this light performs in comparison to the other light I might be thinking of buying.
These parameters are important to how a light is made and what it will deliver for us. But the average layman will not know how to interpret the technical fine print. So please, let's have our lighting engineers and scientists dumb this down for us to a level we can all understand. Tell me why a Cree is better than an Epistar; if I believe you then I can make that a search criteria. But if Cree is really better, why is Epistar still in business? (Price point, I know). But let's get back to basics rather than trying to make all of us lighting engineers. And if you are a lighting engineer, I love you, Man (or more if you're a Woman ): ), and I need all the help you can give me. Just don't tell me how to build the light, make me smart enough to compare one and make the manufacturers adhere to a common set of standards. Like watts, lumens, PAR watts, CCT/CRI/or whatever parameter ends up measuring how effective their light is at growing weed.

Oh... one other thing... if the life expectancy of an LED is 50,000 hours, why do they fail at 2,000 hours? Or 200? Smells like someone stepped in the bullshit.

OK, I'm gonna shut up now, but I feel better
:deadhorse:

Great info!

So could you summarize that in a simple list of what you think should be on there? :crying:
 
You no we have done this already right?
I know, I know... I was thinking I had some great wisdom or something to pass on, you know. All that came out was that nonsense! Weird. I was thinking along the lines of what @Olde School Player was saying but, I grrr, need to get buzzed... Can't verbalize, argh!
 
I know, I know... I was thinking I had some great wisdom or something to pass on, you know. All that came out was that nonsense! Weird. I was thinking along the lines of what @Olde School Player was saying but, I grrr, need to get buzzed... Can't verbalize, argh!
:crying:I figured you new after I checked your starting date so I should have deleted it but forgot no problem brother.:cheers:
 
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