Lighting UNDER CANOPY LIGHTS

[WildBill]

Well, I got the Craft Farmer Under canopy lights in this afternoon. Although it seems that the dimmer cable is in another shipment.

If the lights perform as well as the lights seem to be constructed, this is going to be interesting!
I could definitely see how they got the IP66 designation! They are definitely built extremely sturdy. Definitely a commercial light! Hopefully the electronics are as well-built as the exterior.
The lights were shipped from Morr Inc In California
MORR Inc. is a one-stop-shop wholesale agricultural supplies distributor based out of California offering commercial hydroponics supplies, nursery and greenhouse supplies, gardening supplies, commercial drip irrigation systems, …

MORR Inc. - Wholesale Agricultural Grow Supplies, Grow Equipment, Greenhouse and Hydroponics Supply Store

MORR Inc. is a one-stop-shop wholesale agricultural supplies distributor based out of California offering commercial hydroponics supplies, nursery and greenhouse supplies, gardening supplies, commercial drip irrigation systems, and more AG equipment.

morr.com

Say @Son of Hobbes Do you know anything about the company?

 

[Son of Hobbes]

Well, I got the Craft Farmer Under canopy lights in this afternoon. Although it seems that the dimmer cable is in another shipment.

If the lights perform as well as the lights seem to be constructed, this is going to be interesting!
I could definitely see how they got the IP66 designation! They are definitely built extremely sturdy. Definitely a commercial light! Hopefully the electronics are as well-built as the exterior.
The lights were shipped from Morr Inc In California
MORR Inc. is a one-stop-shop wholesale agricultural supplies distributor based out of California offering commercial hydroponics supplies, nursery and greenhouse supplies, gardening supplies, commercial drip irrigation systems, …

MORR Inc. - Wholesale Agricultural Grow Supplies, Grow Equipment, Greenhouse and Hydroponics Supply Store

MORR Inc. is a one-stop-shop wholesale agricultural supplies distributor based out of California offering commercial hydroponics supplies, nursery and greenhouse supplies, gardening supplies, commercial drip irrigation systems, and more AG equipment.

morr.com

Say @Son of Hobbes Do you know anything about the company?

Nope, but I plan on learning... MORR about them?! Ho ho ho!

 

[Lil Dab]

@WildBill you might be interested in this I'm watching it now and thought of this thread




Edit: they started talking under canopy light but it was brief never mind

 

[WildBill]

@WildBill you might be interested in this I'm watching it now and thought of this thread




Edit: they started talking under canopy light but it was brief never mind

Yeah, man, thanks! I watched it the other day

 

[WildBill]

They go a little more in depth in this episode!

​

 

[WildBill]

Here's some interesting information

Comparing the Best Under Canopy LED Grow Lights: Pricing, Features & S

Compare the best under canopy LED grow lights—pricing, specs, and features from top brands like GroPros, Grower’s Choice, FloraFlex, and Craft Farmer.

growershouse.com

 

[Sandor]

Hm... call me a cynic or whatever you like but this whole thing screams scam to me, trying to capitalize on the resurgence of the whole field due to 420AF's grows' popularity.

Not under-net/canopy lighting as such, I can see that being useful to a degree and use it myself.

No, I mean in terms of efficiency. First of all, what the HELL are those prices?! I can get "real" equivalent above-canopy lamps for a fraction of some of those, with at least 3-5x more influence on overall performance/yield per watt than what's being sold as "special under canopy lighting" now. Holy freaking short.

Second, why the big ass ultra high wattage ultra high heat bars? Is that really the only option vs. just angling the lights like 420AF does/did?! I don't think so.

Thirdly, this reminds me of my "crappy" old Mars Hydro 240/90W lights. Back then all the "good" LED grow lamps used 2W, 3W, even 5W LEDs (that's PER LED CHIP, often at lower than rated wattage) and EVERYBODY was going on about how you absolutely had to use those huge, crazy things, because otherwise light penetration would not be enough, growth would be stunted, plants would die, what have you.

These days nobody makes or even uses them anymore (except for me of course because I'm a cheap bastard and still have them), instead everybody uses ultra simple white-PCB-with-some-standard-low-power-LEDs-soldered-on approach, even dimmable and thus with even lower wattage, that was obvious from the very beginning. You use less power, can move the lamps closer, and Bob's your uncle. Whether as a big central light or the bar style, same thing.

These things here look just like the equivalent of those old "has to be this way, trust me bro" LEDs to me. Ultra high power, ultra high heat, ultra high price approach to sell through, before switching over to the sustainable and affordable technology everybody knows makes more sense, but doesn't fill up company bank accounts as fast, especially not once the hype train has rolled on.

All you need to do is keep your plants shorter and more compact - save half the energy instead of pumping it into the plant from below with less than ideal efficiency, from an extremely overpriced "specialty lamp".

And from there, the obvious solution here seems to me to be small, mobile low wattage panels or, maybe better yet, bendable light bars, positioned right under (a few cm), next to or even within the canopy. Just need the right LEDs soldered on to get the right lighting. I'm trying the cheap crappy YOLO version of this, 2x 20W or so from Amazon, I'll report my findings. But it seems clear to me that this is the better solution for small-space homegrowers, who don't have essentially infinite cheap energy, space, cooling etc.

Now, for huge plantations with dozens, hundreds, thousands of plants of course things can and will be different, and those things can start make sense. But for homegrowers? I'd stick with 420AF's angling approach, especially if you have the lamps lying around anyway, or possibly the low wattage mini-lightbars, IF they work, which I'll know more about in 2 months or so

And hey, maybe I'm completely wrong, that's fine, I'm here to learn - I just feel like I've been there, done that, and am having a déjà-vu.


Just found this bit from Antonio, which seems to confirm my thoughts, so I can sleep well tonight:

... these bottom lights are only 20watts per piece but really help. I would go as much as using 3-4 of them in a 100x100 or 1.20x1.20 (4 X 4). ...

But for this you don't need 150-200 watts as a bottom/interlight. I think 60 to 100 watts in bar form will be more than enough.

 

[WildBill]

Hm... call me a cynic or whatever you like but this whole thing screams scam to me, trying to capitalize on the resurgence of the whole field due to 420AF's grows' popularity.

Not under-net/canopy lighting as such, I can see that being useful to a degree and use it myself.

No, I mean in terms of efficiency. First of all, what the HELL are those prices?! I can get "real" equivalent above-canopy lamps for a fraction of some of those, with at least 3-5x more influence on overall performance/yield per watt than what's being sold as "special under canopy lighting" now. Holy freaking short.

Second, why the big ass ultra high wattage ultra high heat bars? Is that really the only option vs. just angling the lights like 420AF does/did?! I don't think so.

Thirdly, this reminds me of my "crappy" old Mars Hydro 240/90W lights. Back then all the "good" LED grow lamps used 2W, 3W, even 5W LEDs (that's PER LED CHIP, often at lower than rated wattage) and EVERYBODY was going on about how you absolutely had to use those huge, crazy things, because otherwise light penetration would not be enough, growth would be stunted, plants would die, what have you.

These days nobody makes or even uses them anymore (except for me of course because I'm a cheap bastard and still have them), instead everybody uses ultra simple white-PCB-with-some-standard-low-power-LEDs-soldered-on approach, even dimmable and thus with even lower wattage, that was obvious from the very beginning. You use less power, can move the lamps closer, and Bob's your uncle. Whether as a big central light or the bar style, same thing.

These things here look just like the equivalent of those old "has to be this way, trust me bro" LEDs to me. Ultra high power, ultra high heat, ultra high price approach to sell through, before switching over to the sustainable and affordable technology everybody knows makes more sense, but doesn't fill up company bank accounts as fast, especially not once the hype train has rolled on.

All you need to do is keep your plants shorter and more compact - save half the energy instead of pumping it into the plant from below with less than ideal efficiency, from an extremely overpriced "specialty lamp".

And from there, the obvious solution here seems to me to be small, mobile low wattage panels or, maybe better yet, bendable light bars, positioned right under (a few cm), next to or even within the canopy. Just need the right LEDs soldered on to get the right lighting. I'm trying the cheap crappy YOLO version of this, 2x 20W or so from Amazon, I'll report my findings. But it seems clear to me that this is the better solution for small-space homegrowers, who don't have essentially infinite cheap energy, space, cooling etc.

Now, for huge plantations with dozens, hundreds, thousands of plants of course things can and will be different, and those things can start make sense. But for homegrowers? I'd stick with 420AF's angling approach, especially if you have the lamps lying around anyway, or possibly the low wattage mini-lightbars, IF they work, which I'll know more about in 2 months or so

And hey, maybe I'm completely wrong, that's fine, I'm here to learn - I just feel like I've been there, done that, and am having a déjà-vu.


Just found this bit from Antonio, which seems to confirm my thoughts, so I can sleep well tonight:

I kind of agree with you on the gimmicky aspect. And that's what actually sent me down this rabbit hole.

A while scrolling through IG in the library, I kept getting an advertisement of these lights coming out of that sphere they used to test the lights to get the light distribution data off of them. It was a quite obvious Chinese product and looked cheesy AF!

So I started to investigate under Canopy Lighting. I looked at a lot of crap. I think there are several very good lights out there and a couple of commercial grade setups.

Just as with your main light, The light spectrum is just as important with your under canopy lighting.

Yeah, I think the pricing is a bit inflated. Price really wasn't part of my decision making. Spectrum and construction were my two qualifying parameters.

That's why I chose the Craft Farmer two light setup for my 4x4 tent. The construction of these lights is a very strong standout! The main body is made from very thick extruded aluminum. It has a clear glass top. And has a very good IP rating. And it has the industry leading warranty at seven years.

Spectrum wise, It is very heavily orientated toward the red side. Bugsby has said that the red is very photosynthetic and helps develop flowering. And that's what we want to encourage with undercanopy lighting.

I will have to change some of my growing and training procedures. Picking winners and losers when deciding what branches to cut may be not quite so easy now.

My main intent with this under canopy lighting Is many fold. As always, I want to grow the best canna possible in the space that I have. This will help with the quality and as a side, in my mind, the quantity. I'll always take a quantity increase with a quality increase!
It's learning a new technique on growing cannabis! Everything that I do will be documented in my main grow threads and specifically in this thread. All the info and results will be posted and growers can make their own decisions to see if it fits within their growing ideology. And that's why I invite all @Cultivators that are utilizing under canopy lighting to share their findings here!

 

[WildBill]

Thanks for the slaps Auntie!

 

[Antonio_DutchPassion]

Hm... call me a cynic or whatever you like but this whole thing screams scam to me, trying to capitalize on the resurgence of the whole field due to 420AF's grows' popularity.

Not under-net/canopy lighting as such, I can see that being useful to a degree and use it myself.

No, I mean in terms of efficiency. First of all, what the HELL are those prices?! I can get "real" equivalent above-canopy lamps for a fraction of some of those, with at least 3-5x more influence on overall performance/yield per watt than what's being sold as "special under canopy lighting" now. Holy freaking short.

Second, why the big ass ultra high wattage ultra high heat bars? Is that really the only option vs. just angling the lights like 420AF does/did?! I don't think so.

Thirdly, this reminds me of my "crappy" old Mars Hydro 240/90W lights. Back then all the "good" LED grow lamps used 2W, 3W, even 5W LEDs (that's PER LED CHIP, often at lower than rated wattage) and EVERYBODY was going on about how you absolutely had to use those huge, crazy things, because otherwise light penetration would not be enough, growth would be stunted, plants would die, what have you.

These days nobody makes or even uses them anymore (except for me of course because I'm a cheap bastard and still have them), instead everybody uses ultra simple white-PCB-with-some-standard-low-power-LEDs-soldered-on approach, even dimmable and thus with even lower wattage, that was obvious from the very beginning. You use less power, can move the lamps closer, and Bob's your uncle. Whether as a big central light or the bar style, same thing.

These things here look just like the equivalent of those old "has to be this way, trust me bro" LEDs to me. Ultra high power, ultra high heat, ultra high price approach to sell through, before switching over to the sustainable and affordable technology everybody knows makes more sense, but doesn't fill up company bank accounts as fast, especially not once the hype train has rolled on.

All you need to do is keep your plants shorter and more compact - save half the energy instead of pumping it into the plant from below with less than ideal efficiency, from an extremely overpriced "specialty lamp".

And from there, the obvious solution here seems to me to be small, mobile low wattage panels or, maybe better yet, bendable light bars, positioned right under (a few cm), next to or even within the canopy. Just need the right LEDs soldered on to get the right lighting. I'm trying the cheap crappy YOLO version of this, 2x 20W or so from Amazon, I'll report my findings. But it seems clear to me that this is the better solution for small-space homegrowers, who don't have essentially infinite cheap energy, space, cooling etc.

Now, for huge plantations with dozens, hundreds, thousands of plants of course things can and will be different, and those things can start make sense. But for homegrowers? I'd stick with 420AF's angling approach, especially if you have the lamps lying around anyway, or possibly the low wattage mini-lightbars, IF they work, which I'll know more about in 2 months or so

And hey, maybe I'm completely wrong, that's fine, I'm here to learn - I just feel like I've been there, done that, and am having a déjà-vu.


Just found this bit from Antonio, which seems to confirm my thoughts, so I can sleep well tonight:

Yeah man, you hit the nail right on the head mate

As with almost everything in this industry the past decades, there are a lot of hype trains driving around and everyone trying to make a buck. When it comes to LED's I helped setting up a LED-review & LED-distributor as a subsidiary for Dutch Passion about 7 years ago and our main goal was to cut out all the bullshit and promises some manufacturers made and convince all the old-school HPS growers LED was already just as good (even better imo) and the future for growing..

You can't imagine how many talks I had trying to convince people, even when I brought photo material grown by LED vs. grown by HPS. For me back then it was already a done deal, surely I knew I was never going back to HPS again. Don't get me wrong, you can still grow very decent bud with it and I do see some occasions where actually it might be more beneficial to use them or in combination with LED. But still.. the technologyy has come a long way and anyone still claiming HPS is better needs to start learning to grow with LED ;-)

So many brands, products, who and what can you trust? Regarding the canopy lights, ofc depending on what you want to achieve, either go the @420autoflower route and use some smaller wattage panels at the bottom of the tent shining up, go the Flex-bar route or the interlight.

I've done multiple tests with flex bars and interlights the past 10 years and in the end they all increased overall weight, bottom bud quality (bag appeal and potency) but best of all, which seems to be forgotten sometimes, is the increase in overall plant health. Since we grow indoors and usually only have one light fixed at the top, the bottom parts of the plants are lacking light and therefore dropping leaves, this happens because we don't have a movable object like the sun that provides light to all parts of the plant during the day.

I would say the Flex-bar route is most suited for SCROG growers, where you can place the the bar LED's a few cm under the net, shining up. The interlight is most suited for natural or SOG growers, especially when you have ones shining 2 sides & up and down. They both really help to keep your bottom canopy in shape, have more photosynthesis and less maintenance (almost no brown/dead leaves anymore).