La Buena Hierba The Theory of AF Origins.

[La Buena Hierba]

I copy this begin quote from SGS (ICC) from the ICMAG forum (hope its oke)
it will be a nice start of The Theory of AF Origins.
we can give and share ower theory's and findings
(again if its not oke please remove it!)

The Theory of AF Origins.
by SGS

Auto-Flowering Trait Origins.

The Auto-Flowering (AF) trait has been around longer then we can really pin down. It is present in a lot of so called NON-AF strains today, just in different forms then what we see in True Auto-Flowering Strains ( Flowering without a reduced photo period or extreme stress) like LowRyder#1 and it's hybrids. The AF traits I refer to in these NON AF strains are seen in situations of severe stress such as extreme root bounding, nutrient problems, and extended VEG time without pruning or transplanting, etc.... causing them to flower, even in long photo periods, 18+ hours of light each day. So how is the flowering trigger produced even when the plants are in a state of long photo period as most experts say the hormones that effect flowering are controlled by light?

This raises the question, Is Auto-Flowering a Natural Mutation present in most or All Cannabis strains just in various forms?

This question has raised more questions and has led me to research the origin of the type of Auto-Flowering traits we see today in True AF and NON-AF strains.

The best known True Auto-Flowering strain was found growing naturally in Russia, ( Ruderalis ). Why is it that the only known example of Natural True Auto-Flowering ( Flowering without a reduced photo period or extreme stress ), was found in one of the coldest locations with a very short growing season? Why are other NON AF strains found in usually very warm climates still show various AF traits when subject to extreme stress?

These questions have only led to one answer,
The Auto-Flowering Trait was a mutation during the evolution of early Cannabis...

Most experts believe that the Hindu Kush mountain region was the Birth Place Origin of all Cannabis plants and they have been spread throughout the world by humans and other natural forces. I believe that the Auto-Flowering Trait was a mutation brought about by some extreme climate change during early Cannabis evolution, more then likely from what it seems an Early Ice Age. This climate change varied by location and could have varied in the amount of mutation in cannabis plants. This mutation would have allowed the plant to successfully survive even in the shortest growing seasons. This is also reinforced with the Ruderalis plant found growing wild in such a location that would have had the same kind of climate conditions or cooler during this time as Russia does today. Man or some other force must have taken a sample of the most extreme AF mutation back with him to Russia where it continued to stabilize the AF trait to the point it became permanently dominant within its own population. As the world warmed back up Cannabis plants left in the warmer climates would have found this new Auto-Flowering mutation unnecessary with such long growing seasons and would have reverted back to the original NON-AF trait over the next 1000s of years, but the AF mutation would have stayed recessive within the genetic pool. This is reinforced by the fact that the True Auto-Flowering Trait is recessive when crossed into known NON AF strains that only show slight AF traits when subjected to extreme stress etc.., and require many generations of True AF breeding selection to become AF dominant.

It is clear that there is more at work here then just a single hormone that controls flowering in all cannabis plants, there seems to be many. More elaborate scientific research with DNA mapping of the cannabis genome needs to be done, and with the legal status of our sacred plant makes this very difficult.

Please Add your thoughts on this theory as I have spent a long time on it and think it is the best known example of Where Auto-Flowering came from and why these plants Auto-Flower. Of course there are other traits and exceptions to this theory, i will address them soon. Such as how extreme cold conditions can actually slow down the true Auto-Flowering trigger,, but I have an explanation for that as well.

I hope you enjoy this topic as it will be one to discus for sometime.

I will be editing here and there over the next few days to ensure the information is written correctly.

Peace,
SGS.

now my theory's but please post your owh finding and theory's

LBH

Here some quote's from Nevil from mr nice guy forum
he talking on the autoflowering/ruderalis work in the old day's

my first question for neville
while none are noted in the catalouges ,im very curious as too what haze hybrids have you created using the haze female B?
The subject of Haze keeps coming up.
I got mine from Sam the Skunkman in the 80's. I bought a couple of thousand of old stock late 60s/ 70. The first batch that I planted produced one plant, a female. It was the slowest to flower I'd ever come across and flowered for longer. I got 3 different crops of seed of it and it had still not finished. It was huge and filled a quarter of the room, it had wispy buds and when you smoked it, other people complained about the smell. It didn't have much resin and after 9 months flowering, with no end in sight, I chopped it. It seem the most impractical plant I'd ever grown. I didn't keep a cutting.
One of the males I crossed it with was Ruderalis x NL1 X NL1. I was testing a 25% Ruderalis male on the most difficult plant I'd come across to see what it would do. I used all the seed I had to find the earliest male for the next generation. I grew the females out and because it was so resinous, I made hash out of it. To this day it was the best hash I've ever smoked, and I've been privileged to have smoked the best.
I truly regret not having made a cutting of that plant. I didn't make that mistake with the 6 that followed.
I'm feeling a bit sad now, I think that I'll go and have a smoke.
I'll tell you the rest later.
N.

Originally Posted by Nevil
Hi LBH
to get back to your question.

When I first started using Ruderalis, I was trying to eradicate everything from the wild plant except the early flowering gene. NL1 was the opposite of Ruderalis, so I crossed it with that and then put the earliest son back to the mother. The earliest son from that was put to a Haze and I grew the offspring outdoors in Holland. I started flowering early, but didn't finish in the short Dutch Autumn. Still, I had some outdoor Haze bud in Holland.
I also crossed the R.1x1 to NL5 about 8 times, always using males that flowered at the 4th internode. It peaked after 5 back-crosses and didn't get better after that.
I never did NL5r X NL5r like I was planning to, ended up in jail instead.
It's up to you now mate, there is a good selection of Haze type available to cross it to.
N.

Ruderalis.Shady LadyxNL1 X NL1. I wanted to see how the Ruderalis gene would cope with the most difficult plant in the world. I just threw a handful of these seeds in a large pot with rockwool and chopped the males. They were ripe before the mother. I hung them on the line and more or less forgot about them. After I smoked the mother, I went looking for them and decided to make hash out of it. It had been dry for a while and it was brittle. It had plenty of resin which started coming off the buds as I moved them. It was the best damn hash that I've ever smoked

My theory of AF/Lowryder's
i think someone had worked on the Ruderalis.Shady LadyxNL1 beans from Nevil(ore other of his ruder crosses) and found some autoflowering and worked furter on it and the legend of the
mexican ruder/autoflower AKA Loweryder whas born



just a theory /felling from me
but afther Nevil whas gone in seedbisnus the lowryder show up?

.....................

The loweryder theory that its a dwarf Finola (auto hemp )

In the 90s, there were huge fields of industrial hemp growing in Canada and one of the main cultivars was Finola from Finland. During inspections of these fields they kept finding a small number of dwarf plants that had slightly more THC than was allowed by law. Lowryder was developed from these Finola dwarves, the initial cross being Finola crossed to a micro pheno of Closet Queen (NL2). They then worked it from there.


no i dont beleef this story

oke from who comes this info and why goo too a fields of industrial hemp and test dwarf plants that had slightly more THC
?
why not cross a big Finola they autoflowering too
and i think slightly more thc make no difriends ath that point
no i dont beleef this storry.
make no sense too me too test litle dwarf plant from fields of industrial hemp on thc and breeders of industrial hemp dont want too must thc in there hemp(thats why the thc test) and they dont whant dwarf plants.

and cannabis growers dont goo test thc from dwarf plants in hemp filds too breed with ? (again the breed for les thc)
i will goo for the bigger ones and select and test no no for me make no sense does it for you ?
will it not make more sense if they use Nevil's work ?
(he' selected on the shortes introws and lowryder can be potency if grow corect who know what the breeders dith with his geneticts a strain can be mest up in a genaration )

it does seem very odd that JointDoctor used the same genetic (Ruderalis.Shady Lady x NL )make up in his LowRyder as was already in Nevile's early work. It just seems very coincidental that both strains would contain the same base parent Ruderalis x NL .


........................



i LBH had some autoflowering without ruder in it?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=133495

pic from date 6/20/09
?Autoflowering ? original citral x Dubbel Fun (Dubbel fun is early dr weed x original citral )
? i have got 2 of them that showing this flowering ?

is not mix with Autoflowering strains
its a original citral cloon crosst back too a Dubbel Fun (Dubbel fun is early dr weed male x original citral cloon
i got the seeds from wernard bruining

Genetics for this cintrel strain come from the Hindu Kush mountain region near the village district of Chitral.
Citral produces a mellow herbal taste, very good yield and hard buds.
For larger yeilds, grow relatively tall before changing the photo period.
The aroma from the buds is fresh, almost like fabric softener.
The buzz is an interesting cerebral experience despite its indica heritage.



?


Sorry for the bad english

peace LBH

 

[JM]

well thanks for sharing this wonderful piece of insight with us... I find it very interesting... of course it leaves more questions.. lol good science always does..

J

 

[ENCOUNTERZERO]

I think this might turn into one of them hot seat topics theres gonna be alot of different theory's kinda like the origins of train wreck.

 

[Northern Grower]

This is a great thread i will come chime in when i get the info i want to post.

But i agree i don't think AF came from finola. When you read about the trial they did with it in canada here. They talk about a plat that is a meter tall that gets taler the farther north you plant it. You would see alot bigger autos than what orig LR was.

You also find out that the farel finola crop they had in quebec produced 3 gererations of seed from one growing season.

I see very little "oudoors" bred into LR#1. Or any kind of good outdoor resistance. So i have a hard time seeing that LR came from finola stock. Which was bred outdoors. In canada. The canadian stock of it anyways. Can't say what happened in finland.
When you consider the shitty mold resistance of it, it makes the argument the rudi used to make LR might have indeed came from mexico where they have a more desert climate.


I agree with the statement it all started in the kush mountains. I think our common ancestor perhaps might be the afghanica. From karifistan provence to be exact.
I will get together the info i have and come back to post it up. But locals there talk about a wide leaveed plant that grows close to the ground, which flowers before all the other hash producers. This variety is cultivated for charas purposes (hash) And is said to be HIGH in THC.. I only wish we could go there. I'd allready be on my way.

I wonder if it would even be AF or what the deal with it is.

is not mix with Autoflowering strains
its a original citral cloon crosst back too a Dubbel Fun (Dubbel fun is early dr weed male x original citral cloon
i got the seeds from wernard bruining

Genetics for this cintrel strain come from the Hindu Kush mountain region near the village district of Chitral.
Citral produces a mellow herbal taste, very good yield and hard buds.
For larger yeilds, grow relatively tall before changing the photo period.
The aroma from the buds is fresh, almost like fabric softener.
The buzz is an interesting cerebral experience despite its indica heritage.

Exactly, and what about auto affie. There were autos in the F1 generation, if my info is correct. So there HAD to be some kind of genetic marker in there for it to come out that early. Or some thing in the genetics made it easyer for it to come out once crossed to a AF dom parent.

So there had to be an ancestor in the afghan reagion, SOME TIME.. Or in the cut it got crossed to a rudi some place. The genes tell the story if you can read'em!

 

[Mossy]

http://www.seedsman.com/en/origins-of-lowryder/

Guys..can I add the one from Seedsman....
I was looking for info on NL#5 and NL#2 a while back and stopped to read this and nearly FAINTED...

If you read right to the bottom of the page...
Blink..and you will miss it...
someone you know gets a mention.....

In the "Origins of LowRyder"..

AF History...

PRIDE IN MY HEART. I LOVE MY AF's .

 

[La Buena Hierba]

hahhahha

 

[Mossy]

TBM....
I notice you are developing a distinctly Evil streak....not in keeping with your usual karma....hmmmm...

can you give me a Bud Check..
just to make sure you are smoking the right gear..:head:

Or..maybe you suddenly have a teenager living with you..
I know that Honed my evilness..
(Well..that is what I blame it on..genetics huh..)

I've seen posts of his around other sites but must not know what he's talking about cause he's always getting banned.

eh Moi....?.........never.....
much.......cough...cough......splutter........

I don't know..you lot round here...
unforgiving...
You get yourself Banned once....and you never live it down...

There's a mention of some other dude Mossy but who knows who that guy is?

Seen him around..Tosser...I IS the Colour Wizard....

LBH..don't You snigger..you are just encouraging him...:thumbs:

 

[Mossy]

All in good fun!
Wouldn't knock ya if I didn't like. Like to give all my mates a hard time!

I Love it m8..it is Exactly like being @ home...
we Rib each other...something rotten..

I tend to keep it to a minimum on thread..because I don't think a lot of US-ers understand it...
and they think we are arguing...meaning it.

But..to me..it is part of the Pleasure of growing..winding up me m8's..and being wound up back...
and the Ultimate..ultimate..pleasure..is to take your M8's genetics...
and Outgrow them with them......
sooooooooooo schweeeeeeeeeeeeet...........:ama:

I'm SAD..aren't I....

Needless to say I was climbing the walls!

Ha ha ha......smoke more dope...it Helps....

Anyway..think of this missing poster...

Missing...
teenager and dog......
Reward for the return of the Dog....:thumbs:

 

[La Buena Hierba]

dog's dog's notower dog thread pic again lol http://autoflower.net/forums/showth...-topic)-ore-you-other-animals?p=1486#post1486

(oke mossy sorry beter clean up the thread for new readers lol)

 

[ENCOUNTERZERO]

http://cannabismjseeds.com/ruderalis-cannabis-seeds.html
says its from russia. The first line says that the ruderalis is worthless unless you making a auto strain least thats what i get from the first line there. the way they worded that they sound so pissed off that it is even used to make autos. I think they lost site of the whole stealth of them and the speed at which you can harvest there perfect for small time growers not drug lords. people just get to damn greedy. Who the hell destroys a whole line cause it started to auto thats like throwing money out the damn window. we should send a letter out to all breeders that are throwing them out we will take them off there hands lol.