Tent metdown!

[Yeatster]

Hey dude

Promix is mostly an inert medium, sort of like Coco. But, it has some differences that make it kind of difficult to grow in for the uninitiated. Promix is usually charged with some nutrients just enough to get you through this seedling faze. It also is buffered with usually Dolomite lime. So you really shouldn't have to add any of your own.

I think you described perfectly the problem you're having, they're stopping their growth. You need to be feeding them significantly more. A nice balanced cannabis specific nutrient mix starting out following say half of the schedules recommend recommended dose. Usually, people that use promix will pH than nutrient mix to about 6.3 or 6.4. With you putting in that added lime I'm not really sure if that would hold true but I might try that first. From this point forward you should be feeding every time you water and getting some decent run off.

Hey jingo, thanks for chipping in also. I have been growing with promix for over a year now with decent results and no problems, relating to promix.

The dolomite lime was increased to help with the need of so much CalMg. A- Train says he uses 4 tbls. per gallon of promix so I was kinda running with that idea.

I normally start feeding with AN micro, grow, bloom, voodoo juice, and b 52, by the 2nd week. With these particular HBSS, I had to wait till this morning because the little amount of water I gave them took 5 days to dry. They just seem to quit drinking by day 10.

This wouldn't seem so crazy to me if the exact same thing hadn't happened a few weeks ago.

I ordered some more promix. This time through Amazon. Will be here Mon. I may transplant these and say a novena.

 

[Waira]

:smoking: hey Yeats!
...so, why did you add so much dolomite to the Promix? It has two lime sources in it already, and this peat based medium wants to run a bit low in pH than true soil does...( oh, right A-Train's tinkering,.. I have to catch up with him on that, we did talk a bit about it; but your grow parameters and nutes aren't his, nor are the issues you're having vs what prompted him to do this.. I'm dubious about the dolomite addition, but A-Train is a fine-ass grower, so his tinkering is his call... it may not translate over to yours though, is the point! .... And of course, a bad batch of mix is a possibility... I'd test the crap out of that bag, starting with a pH reading, and a run-off ppm measurement... mix up a blank pot, 1/2 gal or so is fine
...SC plant aside, (same mix and amendment?), none of this is environmental that I can say,... only common link is the medium; have you taken pH readings? You see with all this dolomite, it might be forcing the pH higher than it should be as mentioned by Jingo,..BUT dolomite is slow acting, and won't raise your pH above 7.0 or so,... however, if it's too much all together, maybe there's a competitive ion uptake issue (something akin to toxicity) interfering with nute uptake,.. speaking of which, what are you nutes and dosage, if you've started yet? Promix is very weak with nutes, so feeding should start within a week,... And what the water source? ...Those lower leaves look like P defc. to me,...

you were in with that SC before, right? That's looking FUBAR I'm afraid,... did I say K defc.? K tox looks similar ironically, but there's no other signs of overfert'ing,.. Again the pH reading is key Yeats, I'm half blind without it,... a more remote possibility is this is simply a wonky pheno', and the nute issues made things worse,... such poor bud set is more of a sign of P defc. than K defc.,...

 

[Yeatster]

:smoking: hey Yeats!
...so, why did you add so much dolomite to the Promix? It has two lime sources in it already, and this peat based medium wants to run a bit low in pH than true soil does...( oh, right A-Train's tinkering,.. I have to catch up with him on that, we did talk a bit about it; but your grow parameters and nutes aren't his, nor are the issues you're having vs what prompted him to do this.. I'm dubious about the dolomite addition, but A-Train is a fine-ass grower, so his tinkering is his call... it may not translate over to yours though, is the point! .... And of course, a bad batch of mix is a possibility... I'd test the crap out of that bag, starting with a pH reading, and a run-off ppm measurement... mix up a blank pot, 1/2 gal or so is fine
...SC plant aside, (same mix and amendment?), none of this is environmental that I can say,... only common link is the medium; have you taken pH readings? You see with all this dolomite, it might be forcing the pH higher than it should be as mentioned by Jingo,..BUT dolomite is slow acting, and won't raise your pH above 7.0 or so,... however, if it's too much all together, maybe there's a competitive ion uptake issue (something akin to toxicity) interfering with nute uptake,.. speaking of which, what are you nutes and dosage, if you've started yet? Promix is very weak with nutes, so feeding should start within a week,... And what the water source? ...Those lower leaves look like P defc. to me,...

you were in with that SC before, right? That's looking FUBAR I'm afraid,... did I say K defc.? K tox looks similar ironically, but there's no other signs of overfert'ing,.. Again the pH reading is key Yeats, I'm half blind without it,... a more remote possibility is this is simply a wonky pheno', and the nute issues made things worse,... such poor bud set is more of a sign of P defc. than K defc.,...

Thanks for responding Waira.
The line was added because of the CalMg issued past grows. I am using A- Trains Advanced Nute schedule from 2015, as a baseline. Promix was also his medium. I tried to follow his lead, in the beginning.

I ordered another batch of promix. Different source. Maybe I won't add so much lime this time.

The SC is in the old batch, with 1 tbls lime, per gallon. I thought it was overfert then thought P def. Unfortunately neither straight water, or feeding helped.
This is 1 week ago

Normal feed for her is 2ml per Liter AN M,G,B...Overdrive...GO CalMg...Bud Candy...1ml/L B- 52
Water source is tap. Soft water. PH in the low 7's.
This is her first visit to the ER.


For the seedlings, I normally start feeding by day 10 @ .5ml M,G,B...2ml/L voodoo juice...B- 52...1/2 ml/L Calmg+
Because they stopped drinking, I was later than usual in feeding. I had to wait for medium to dry on it's own.

I'm going to break down and buy a PH soil meter.

Thanks again everyone

 

[Heavily Medicated]

I have to chime in on this one, until very recently I have grown with AN nutes in ProMix exclusively. I use aluminum sulfate at 2 tsp per 3 gallons of 75/25 ProMix/Perlite to adjust the medium pH. This gives my mix an initial pH of right at 6.8. I adjust my AN nutes pH to 6.3. After flooding, the medium pH will drop to the 6.3 and slowly rise as the medium dries, bringing the pH back up to the 6.8 by the next feeding time. This I learned from @Muddy quite some time ago and has worked flawlessly for me for years. You need to probe your medium and get an accurate medium pH reading. My bet is with all that lime your pH is the cause of all this. With lime being slow to adjust medium pH, your girls grow nicely for about two weeks, then the pH goes wacky and growth freezes. Also, I know some people feed small amounts very frequently in opposed to flood to waste, but by two weeks old I have floodeded my pot at least once so the roots will expand out into the outer edges of the pot. As for a nute schedule etc, I think it is best to develop your own because different enironmental conditons dictate different growing techniques and plant needs. If you follow the nute table provided by AN for the Hobbyist Package, then cut everything in half, you will get spectacular results, providing you create the right environment. Alot of growers lead you to believe that they have developed some type of "magical" nute schedule that gives space age results. Fact is, most growers can grow just as big and nasty plants as these magic nute schedule grows just by getting their environment dialed in and using plain old basic nute regiment. Once you get those nutes dialed into your environmental requirements, you can replicate huge grows time after time.

 

[jingo]

Hmmm I used aluminum sulfate to get an emediate lowering of pH for my out door blueberries. Along with peat and elemental sulfur for the long haul. But, I only did it after checking with a university extension office to see if blueberries can uptake the aluminum, they can't.

Not enough research on cannabis to say it is safe. I monitor the Washington and Colorado official cannabis pesticide and fertilizer lists and have never seen it approved for use on cannabis.

I world hesitate to use aluminum salts out of fear that some small aluminum ion might somehow impart it's energy on a molecule that crosses the blood brain barrier like THC.

 

[Heavily Medicated]

Hmmm I used aluminum sulfate to get an emediate lowering of pH for my out door blueberries. Along with peat and elemental sulfur for the long haul. But, I only did it after checking with a university extension office to see if blueberries can uptake the aluminum, they can't.

Not enough research on cannabis to say it is safe. I monitor the Washington and Colorado official cannabis pesticide and fertilizer lists and have never seen it approved for use on cannabis.

I world hesitate to use aluminum salts out of fear that some small aluminum ion might somehow impart it's energy on a molecule that crosses the blood brain barrier like THC.

Good to note. I guess, because there is so little bonifide University research concerning the propagation of cannabis, that I just go by if it is OK for food I am growing in my garden, it's good enough for my weed. But, then again, your point may bring up a good reason for my insanity. LOL I guess maybe when you get my age you just kind of don't give a shit about a lot of that kind of thing anymore.

 

[Muddy]

I have to chime in on this one, until very recently I have grown with AN nutes in ProMix exclusively. I use aluminum sulfate at 2 tsp per 3 gallons of 75/25 ProMix/Perlite to adjust the medium pH. This gives my mix an initial pH of right at 6.8. I adjust my AN nutes pH to 6.3. After flooding, the medium pH will drop to the 6.3 and slowly rise as the medium dries, bringing the pH back up to the 6.8 by the next feeding time. This I learned from @Muddy quite some time ago and has worked flawlessly for me for years. You need to probe your medium and get an accurate medium pH reading. My bet is with all that lime your pH is the cause of all this. With lime being slow to adjust medium pH, your girls grow nicely for about two weeks, then the pH goes wacky and growth freezes. Also, I know some people feed small amounts very frequently in opposed to flood to waste, but by two weeks old I have floodeded my pot at least once so the roots will expand out into the outer edges of the pot. As for a nute schedule etc, I think it is best to develop your own because different enironmental conditons dictate different growing techniques and plant needs. If you follow the nute table provided by AN for the Hobbyist Package, then cut everything in half, you will get spectacular results, providing you create the right environment. Alot of growers lead you to believe that they have developed some type of "magical" nute schedule that gives space age results. Fact is, most growers can grow just as big and nasty plants as these magic nute schedule grows just by getting their environment dialed in and using plain old basic nute regiment. Once you get those nutes dialed into your environmental requirements, you can replicate huge grows time after time.

lol, thanks for posting the AS ratio. I had forgotten what it was and was about to go looking. I can't get Pro Mix around here without going 40 miles, so have been using an organic mix from Lowes. I'll be going that way soon and want to pick up a bale of HP on the way. Nice to know that method is still working and people are using it.

 

[Yeatster]

I have to chime in on this one, until very recently I have grown with AN nutes in ProMix exclusively. I use aluminum sulfate at 2 tsp per 3 gallons of 75/25 ProMix/Perlite to adjust the medium pH. This gives my mix an initial pH of right at 6.8. I adjust my AN nutes pH to 6.3. After flooding, the medium pH will drop to the 6.3 and slowly rise as the medium dries, bringing the pH back up to the 6.8 by the next feeding time. This I learned from @Muddy quite some time ago and has worked flawlessly for me for years. You need to probe your medium and get an accurate medium pH reading. My bet is with all that lime your pH is the cause of all this. With lime being slow to adjust medium pH, your girls grow nicely for about two weeks, then the pH goes wacky and growth freezes. Also, I know some people feed small amounts very frequently in opposed to flood to waste, but by two weeks old I have floodeded my pot at least once so the roots will expand out into the outer edges of the pot. As for a nute schedule etc, I think it is best to develop your own because different enironmental conditons dictate different growing techniques and plant needs. If you follow the nute table provided by AN for the Hobbyist Package, then cut everything in half, you will get spectacular results, providing you create the right environment. Alot of growers lead you to believe that they have developed some type of "magical" nute schedule that gives space age results. Fact is, most growers can grow just as big and nasty plants as these magic nute schedule grows just by getting their environment dialed in and using plain old basic nute regiment. Once you get those nutes dialed into your environmental requirements, you can replicate huge grows time after time.

I guess I missed this notification HM. So, you think the lime could react that quickly?
I have new Promix coming tomorrow so I will transplant these babies, with less lime. I also plan on pH'ing from now on. The soil meter....well, I may have to ride it out for a bit. The boss vetoed that purchase. I'll have to sneak it in, soon.

None of the seedlings have nudged, aside from losing color.

The Sour Crack, I upped my Bloom and Overdrive to 2.5ml/L. A bit soon to say for sure but I think she may be turning around.

 

[Waira]

Yeats, she looks a lot better-?? Where are all the damaged leaves I saw in the previous pic? If she was stalled, it's over now ... Also, maybe this pheno' is different from the usual short super chunky girl SC typically shows,...
..what's you water source again? ..being mindful of ALL the Ca inputs here,... I'm thinking along the same line HM is; frankly, I'm shocked A-T hasn't had more issues, but I've not looked lately, so IDK,... again, it's not reliable to try and mirror another grower's MO usually!... For him, he felt it was the lights causing most of his issues,... What are you using, and the distance to tops? I do see some edge/teeth curling, indicative of light/heat/transpiration stress,... easily could be behind the K symptoms as well,.. but too much Ca/Mg, as cations, can cause competitive uptake issues with other cations like K, and some of the micronute metals,... in any case, the SC looks to be back on track now,... Seedlings still stalled out? And did you test the Promix out of bag yet? process of elimination my friend,..!

Muddy A site for sore eyes! You know Promix as well as anybody out there,... and all I get is conflicting info about Al and cannabis-

 

[Yeatster]

@Waira the last pic is stated as being "1 week ago".
She doesn't look better, as I expected. I had to wait another day to increase P&K.
I gave her 1ml per Liter of Micro, B- 52. 2ml/L Grow, Bloom. 2 1/2 ml/L Overdrive.


As of this morning

I failed to mention, the leaf stems are weak.

The seedlings are holding on...no growth. I plan on transplanting when new Promix comes tomorrow.

I just want to say, I am not trying to mirror A- Train. I started growing in Jan. last year. I did some research. I saw A- Train growing great plants and being very helpful to new growers. I followed a schedule of his, knowing I wasn't going to grow the same. I liked the idea of pH perfect and I liked the idea of controlling feed with soiless. Using his schedule as a baseline has worked out great for me. I was chatting in my grow journal with A- Train and BigSmo. It seems they were having issues with cobs needing excessive Cal. I mentioned adding more dolomite lime...A-Train said he uses 4tbls per gallon, so I upped mine to 3tbls.

I'm not sure which direction I will be going next but I am in an urgent situation right now, where I need to keep producing like I have been. Despite the problems you're seeing, I am confident all will be a learning curve. There are countless people following TaNg schedules. Do they all expect to grow like TaNg? I hope not.

Oh yeah, the water source is city water. Soft water. I recall showing you the specs before Waira and you gave it the OK.

Thanks peeps.