Ruderalis. an unsolved puzzle

[Proph]

W

ok thanks for that insight, really. I think I will keep those for my personnal use, history and preservation it's hard to realize that I went through so much trouble for absolutly nothing ‍♂ Thanks again chief!

Whooaaa.. Don't get me wrong bro! It's was not for nothing! I would hate for you to think that! It's just that landrace seeds (auto and photo period) have been making they're rounds globally for decades! It may have been difficult for you to get, but that doesn't mean they are worthless, lol. Just like with most things collectable, you just have to find the right buyers that will pay top dollar. You still have some rare seeds. All landrace seeds are rare as they are only found in their homeland until smuggled out, lol. Once you start growing a few, you will see the difference and why hybrids are more often chosen than landraces in general. Play around! See what you think! Maybe you stumble upon a breakthru!

 

[CanadianStorm]

W

Whooaaa.. Don't get me wrong bro! It's was not for nothing! I would hate for you to think that! It's just that landrace seeds (auto and photo period) have been making they're rounds globally for decades! It may have been difficult for you to get, but that doesn't mean they are worthless, lol. Just like with most things collectable, you just have to find the right buyers that will pay top dollar. You still have some rare seeds. All landrace seeds are rare as they are only found in their homeland until smuggled out, lol. Once you start growing a few, you will see the difference and why hybrids are more often chosen than landraces in general. Play around! See what you think! Maybe you stumble upon a breakthru!

That's encouraging ^_^ I've written to Strainly , maybe something good will come out of that . But in any case, I will not reattempt my stunt

 

[Left]

Hi there, canadion storm, thanks for your answer to my ruderalis question I totally agree that ruderalis can have value, mostly personal or for preservation purposes. Not very commercial possibilities in my opinion. But you should make sure to get something out of those seeds, considering all you went through to get them.

Proph, I just joined the forum today after years of lurking, just to get some more info concerning ruderalis. Maybe you could comment on it? It is my only thread so far, easy to find.. Don't want to hijack this thread, so you decide to answer here or in my thread..

In short I wonder about alternatives to pure ruderalis when introducing auto genes into a landrace. I have landrace Cambodian that I want to make auto. I totally agree that the simplest way is just using a modern auto hybrid where the work has already been done. Potency-wise a modern auto is undoubtedly better to use than regressing a decade by starting with a rudy. But what if you want to make a purer auto than you get from crossing the landrace with a ybrid auto? Just for this project I want pure cambodian landrace, but with auto genes. Don't want any indica or traces of ak47, blueberry etc in it. To get auto I need to compromise and add one strain to this hybrid. My only solution is using a landrace ruderalis as it is as close as I can get to a one strain auto. The resulting auto hybrid will be low potency, of course.
However, this is the only way I can see myself reaching my goal of making my own personal auto Cambodian, knowing it is as geographically pure as possible. Almost exclusively cambodian with a minimal, but necessary Siberian in it. I think it can be done, thought it means a hell of a lot of work backcrossing and selecting. It would be nice to cross my landrace with a modern cambodian auto from the market, but I would be suspecting that it contains quite a mix of strains from all over the world.
Waira, I would love for you to comment as well!

 

[CanadianStorm]

No worries bro,

Hi there, canadion storm, thanks for your answer to my ruderalis question I totally agree that ruderalis can have value, mostly personal or for preservation purposes. Not very commercial possibilities in my opinion. But you should make sure to get something out of those seeds, considering all you went through to get them.

Proph, I just joined the forum today after years of lurking, just to get some more info concerning ruderalis. Maybe you could comment on it? It is my only thread so far, easy to find.. Don't want to hijack this thread, so you decide to answer here or in my thread..

In short I wonder about alternatives to pure ruderalis when introducing auto genes into a landrace. I have landrace Cambodian that I want to make auto. I totally agree that the simplest way is just using a modern auto hybrid where the work has already been done. Potency-wise a modern auto is undoubtedly better to use than regressing a decade by starting with a rudy. But what if you want to make a purer auto than you get from crossing the landrace with a ybrid auto? Just for this project I want pure cambodian landrace, but with auto genes. Don't want any indica or traces of ak47, blueberry etc in it. To get auto I need to compromise and add one strain to this hybrid. My only solution is using a landrace ruderalis as it is as close as I can get to a one strain auto. The resulting auto hybrid will be low potency, of course.
However, this is the only way I can see myself reaching my goal of making my own personal auto Cambodian, knowing it is as geographically pure as possible. Almost exclusively cambodian with a minimal, but necessary Siberian in it. I think it can be done, thought it means a hell of a lot of work backcrossing and selecting. It would be nice to cross my landrace with a modern cambodian auto from the market, but I would be suspecting that it contains quite a mix of strains from all over the world.
Waira, I would love for you to comment as well!

this thread is going somewhere by sharing views ,opinions and f**** up theories .
A ruderalis seed takes 60 days to veg and bloom (create seeds also) all together. Goin to a 4th "génération" would take , in theory ( I might be wrong here but I'm being logical) .... about 8 months? It's far from the " years" they say. Im going with the maths:
you breed x strain with rudy
1st generation x strain: 50% pool gene rudy:50% pool gene
2nd generation: x: 75% rudy: 25 %
3rd generation (6 months later)
x:87.5% rudy 12.5 %
4th generation :
x:93.75% dominant
rudy: 6.25 recessive zone

At that point you should be good to go with cloning that beautiful baby? ^_^ Again, I might be wrong about the repartition and passing of genes.

 

[Proph]

No worries bro,

this thread is going somewhere by sharing views ,opinions and f**** up theories .
A ruderalis seed takes 60 days to veg and bloom (create seeds also) all together. Goin to a 4th "génération" would take , in theory ( I might be wrong here but I'm being logical) .... about 8 months? It's far from the " years" they say. Im going with the maths:
you breed x strain with rudy
1st generation x strain: 50% pool gene rudy:50% pool gene
2nd generation: x: 75% rudy: 25 %
3rd generation (6 months later)
x:87.5% rudy 12.5 %
4th generation :
x:93.75% dominant
rudy: 6.25 recessive zone

At that point you should be good to go with cloning that beautiful baby? ^_^ Again, I might be wrong about the repartition and passing of genes.

That's not how it works though.. And you're only considering one trait in your example (the auto gene).. This is more of how it would work..

"X" Strain x Rudy:
100% of f1 hybrids will be photo period. The auto gene is recessive. Now, out of these f1's no telling now many will have other Rudy traits like small size, low yield that youll want to breed out. The odds of finding an f1 hybrid plant that has no Rudy geno straits is slim to none..

"X" strain x Rudy F2s:
25% of the f2s will have the auto feature, but might not have any other traits you like..or they may have all the traits you like but no auto gene. The odds of finding a perfect breeding pair out of 25% of the total f2 seeds, is again, slim.

"X" Strain x Rudy F3's:
Let's say all went perfect with the f2s. You found two perfect plants that have the auto gene. The f3's will be fully auto.. But now you have to find out which parent is dominate and what traits pulled through from which parent. So you have to grow out the f3's and make a selection again..

This can go on to like f6-f8 until the strain is stabilized and almost all plants grow and look the same, and all having the traits you selected.

This is why most auto breeders say their original autos are at least f4 or higher. This is also why real breeders grow out hundreds of plants at once to choose from. Hundreds of f1s, hundreds of f2s ect. That will reduce the total time a by a bit, but would still take years if done properly. You can always take short cuts.. But I call that pollen chucking, not breeding, lol.

 

[CanadianStorm]

That's not how it works though.. And you're only considering one trait in your example (the auto gene).. This is more of how it would work..

"X" Strain x Rudy:
100% of f1 hybrids will be photo period. The auto gene is recessive. Now, out of these f1's no telling now many will have other Rudy traits like small size, low yield that youll want to breed out. The odds of finding an f1 hybrid plant that has no Rudy geno straits is slim to none..

"X" strain x Rudy F2s:
25% of the f2s will have the auto feature, but might not have any other traits you like..or they may have all the traits you like but no auto gene. The odds of finding a perfect breeding pair out of 25% of the total f2 seeds, is again, slim.

"X" Strain x Rudy F3's:
Let's say all went perfect with the f2s. You found two perfect plants that have the auto gene. The f3's will be fully auto.. But now you have to find out which parent is dominate and what traits pulled through from which parent. So you have to grow out the f3's and make a selection again..

This can go on to like f6-f8 until the strain is stabilized and almost all plants grow and look the same, and all having the traits you selected.

This is why most auto breeders say their original autos are at least f4 or higher. This is also why real breeders grow out hundreds of plants at once to choose from. Hundreds of f1s, hundreds of f2s ect. That will reduce the total time a by a bit, but would still take years if done properly. You can always take short cuts.. But I call that pollen chucking, not breeding, lol.

assuming he is taking a pure cambodian from F1 to F3 without it being auto, he could achieve an auto cambodian at F4 since he is breeding different pure cambodian at each new generation?
Because once he reaches that 50/50 , I think it would be an act of God to have a hybrid imposing a 50% pool gene over a 100% cambodian pool gene. Again, I might not have understood something here but seriously this whole "engeneering" thing is a freakin rabbit hole I love that!

 

[GeorgeCloney]

I'm laughing reading this because I was down this path last year.
First of all are PURE ruderalis hard to find (YES)...
Are ruderalis from eastern europe hard to find on the web, no...

Cannapot Onlineshop SLU - Russian Auto CBD

Russian Auto CBD is a pure Ruderalis variety, which was selected with much effort from russian landraces. This autoflowering variety is rich in CBD (excellent for Switzerland) - other cannabinoids occur only in small quantities. These CBD hemp seeds are perfect for outdoor as neither a rough...

www.cannapot.com

It did take me about 2 weeks every night searching for a seed bank/ breader to have what I was looking for.
I too live in Canada, and getting the seeds from CannaPot took about 3 weeks because most seeds are sent via Euromail.

I'm into my 3rd grow of ruderalis to create my own seed supply.
See pictures bellow.

I'm in the process of creating an auto hybrid of Cannatonic which will be an auto.
Cannatonic is mostly sativa, so as Teide said, if you don't want to introduce Indica into your auto, you better start off from scratch.
Easy??,...no....
The pictures attached are an F1 of Cannatonic/Ruderalis.
The Bastards (using proper English), have the height of Cannatonic, but flower after about 30 days.

Is selling pure Ruderalis in North America worth it,...maybe (without getting caught?,...stay under the radar!!).

The future of pot is definetly feminised seeds to make sure the customer gets flowers only (ok, maybe without contamination from a male).
Also, if the world supply is only female,....you have to buy seeds from a supplier!!!!, not make your own (WTF!!).

What about those of us ( LIKE ME) that want to make a seed run?

So while we're a head of the game in 2020, do I encourge someone selling Ruderalis,...yes and no...
Yes to make some photos which are not Auto's down the road...
And no because every time we introduce a new strain on the market, people find a better way to corrupt what already exists.

 

[Disburped]

Joint doctor has a guide on Doctor's Choice website. F3 can still have a few photos according to him so F4 is first full auto. I wonder if it's possible to grow many bonsai plants if the lights are on 2/22, should grow plants that's about 10% the size of normal and grow them all together in soil dumped in tent no pot style. There must be a way to make a good selection without a big space but I wonder how.

 

[CanadianStorm]

Joint doctor has a guide on Doctor's Choice website. F3 can still have a few photos according to him so F4 is first full auto. I wonder if it's possible to grow many bonsai plants if the lights are on 2/22, should grow plants that's about 10% the size of normal and grow them all together in soil dumped in tent no pot style. There must be a way to make a good selection without a big space but I wonder how.

it would be beneficial. You throw it on the ground and it will grow. even broken ruderalis seeds will grow. this thing is insane lol and from there you choose the perfect one.

 

[CanadianStorm]

I'm laughing reading this because I was down this path last year.
First of all are PURE ruderalis hard to find (YES)...
Are ruderalis from eastern europe hard to find on the web, no...

Cannapot Onlineshop SLU - Russian Auto CBD

Russian Auto CBD is a pure Ruderalis variety, which was selected with much effort from russian landraces. This autoflowering variety is rich in CBD (excellent for Switzerland) - other cannabinoids occur only in small quantities. These CBD hemp seeds are perfect for outdoor as neither a rough...

www.cannapot.com

It did take me about 2 weeks every night searching for a seed bank/ breader to have what I was looking for.
I too live in Canada, and getting the seeds from CannaPot took about 3 weeks because most seeds are sent via Euromail.

I'm into my 3rd grow of ruderalis to create my own seed supply.
See pictures bellow.

I'm in the process of creating an auto hybrid of Cannatonic which will be an auto.
Cannatonic is mostly sativa, so as Teide said, if you don't want to introduce Indica into your auto, you better start off from scratch.
Easy??,...no....
The pictures attached are an F1 of Cannatonic/Ruderalis.
The Bastards (using proper English), have the height of Cannatonic, but flower after about 30 days.

Is selling pure Ruderalis in North America worth it,...maybe (without getting caught?,...stay under the radar!!).

The future of pot is definetly feminised seeds to make sure the customer gets flowers only (ok, maybe without contamination from a male).
Also, if the world supply is only female,....you have to buy seeds from a supplier!!!!, not make your own (WTF!!).

What about those of us ( LIKE ME) that want to make a seed run?

So while we're a head of the game in 2020, do I encourge someone selling Ruderalis,...yes and no...
Yes to make some photos which are not Auto's down the road...
And no because every time we introduce a new strain on the market, people find a better way to corrupt what already exists.

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Nice! its has the ruderalis look tho. As you said, starting from scratch is a good way to have what you want, with the tweaking ypu want. I'm surprised you were able to find some and its good news. hope is not lost lol