Indoor Mars Hydro Grow Journal (2x) TS600 + 1 TS1000 Bruce Banner + Critical Mass + Gelato - Check out the pics!
- Thread starter CDN88
- Start date
That plant looks like it could have a couple of things going on:
1) Leaf claw/curling downward might indicate that it's consuming too much Nitrogen, and/or, that it's being watered too much.
1a) Sometimes it only appears like it's N toxicity, what's really happening is the pH is too high.
2) I notice some rust-spots on the lower leaves in one of your picture, that appears like Ca deficiency.
2a) Growers on forums almost always amend Ca, usually too much, meaning that it's more likely Ca lockout.
3) In one shot I see your environment probe says "33" and it appears that it's the temperature in degrees C. If that's the case (and it's not 33% RH) then you're about 3*C too hot. That might be the source of some of the leaf taco'ing and upward cupping fans.
4) Things that usually show up quickly include over-watering, big pH swings after feeding/watering, heat or light stress, big changes in temp/RH
My Guess:
1-Too high pH
2-Overwatering
Reading back through, I also see you're using the pH perfect nutes. One of the problems I've had with this line is that for autos, full-strength is too much and it causes some lockouts and toxicity. Below full-strength, there isn't enough product in my pH 7 tap water to properly buffer the solution to 5.9-6.1 where it needs to be.
So I think that line of nutes works best for autos below 1/2 strength, and with the addition of some pH down to get to your target, since the half-strength buffers they add to adjust pH aren't in sufficient concentration to do the job you need. I ultimately threw mine out after 3 grows and went back to the GH Flora Trio; I'm considering a one-part dry nutrient as my next step towards simplicity.
That likely means your main problem would be solved with some pH down.
1) Leaf claw/curling downward might indicate that it's consuming too much Nitrogen, and/or, that it's being watered too much.
1a) Sometimes it only appears like it's N toxicity, what's really happening is the pH is too high.
2) I notice some rust-spots on the lower leaves in one of your picture, that appears like Ca deficiency.
2a) Growers on forums almost always amend Ca, usually too much, meaning that it's more likely Ca lockout.
3) In one shot I see your environment probe says "33" and it appears that it's the temperature in degrees C. If that's the case (and it's not 33% RH) then you're about 3*C too hot. That might be the source of some of the leaf taco'ing and upward cupping fans.
4) Things that usually show up quickly include over-watering, big pH swings after feeding/watering, heat or light stress, big changes in temp/RH
My Guess:
1-Too high pH
2-Overwatering
Reading back through, I also see you're using the pH perfect nutes. One of the problems I've had with this line is that for autos, full-strength is too much and it causes some lockouts and toxicity. Below full-strength, there isn't enough product in my pH 7 tap water to properly buffer the solution to 5.9-6.1 where it needs to be.
So I think that line of nutes works best for autos below 1/2 strength, and with the addition of some pH down to get to your target, since the half-strength buffers they add to adjust pH aren't in sufficient concentration to do the job you need. I ultimately threw mine out after 3 grows and went back to the GH Flora Trio; I'm considering a one-part dry nutrient as my next step towards simplicity.
That likely means your main problem would be solved with some pH down.
Last edited:
LST didn't cause that.
Start a thread in the infirmary and give detailed conditions and inputs as possible.
Include the little 'furry' mutant also. It may give the experts a clue.
Do this today! I suggest not watering or any inputs until you get some good input from your infirmary thread.
Good luck bro!
***Day 26***
Well, it would seem it hasn't got worse. I see everyone's note about not watering, but I gave her 2 liters of plain no nutrient water to try to flush her a bit. The pistils actually perked up about an hour after the fresh water.
Seeing as how rapidly it went downhill I'm assuming that it has stabilized since it hasn't got much worse in the past 24 hours.
@WildBill I haven't checked, but I assume the Infirmary is a thread in these forums, I'll look for it next.
@low_and_slow the 30 was humidity level. Temperature wise during the day it's at 27C consistently, if I open the tent for a while then it will drop to 25 like in the pic. It's in a cold room in my basement and it's winter here so at night when the lights turn off for 4 hours it drops to 18 degrees with a little heater on, which you can see in the pic.
Well, it would seem it hasn't got worse. I see everyone's note about not watering, but I gave her 2 liters of plain no nutrient water to try to flush her a bit. The pistils actually perked up about an hour after the fresh water.
Seeing as how rapidly it went downhill I'm assuming that it has stabilized since it hasn't got much worse in the past 24 hours.
@WildBill I haven't checked, but I assume the Infirmary is a thread in these forums, I'll look for it next.
@low_and_slow the 30 was humidity level. Temperature wise during the day it's at 27C consistently, if I open the tent for a while then it will drop to 25 like in the pic. It's in a cold room in my basement and it's winter here so at night when the lights turn off for 4 hours it drops to 18 degrees with a little heater on, which you can see in the pic.
Last edited:
CDN88
The flush may have helped IF you got runoff. Unless you feed/water somewhere else, I don't see any place for run off.
I don't know much about your media and a little bit about your nutes. If mixed properly, Ph is not supposed to be a problem with the nutes you're using. I did see something about mixing that may be a point to check. Since you're not using a reservoir, I assume you're mixing your nutes in a bucket of some sort. It does state that you add the nutes to the water and mix one ingredient at a time and mix that before you go to the next. Just check your procedures in how you actually do it. That seems odd to me, but that's from their site.................yeah, I dd some research on your stuff. No biggie!
But what I most definitely see is a FAR too low humidity! Your current VPD is WAAAAAAAAAAY off! Your VPD is too high even for flower unless you were adding lots of CO2 in a closed tent.
Your temp is ok for a winter grow, but it could be a little better. You sure need to increase the humidity in the tent!!!
Your current VPD from the above pic is 1.85. With that temp and this stage of life, 65%Rh would get you pretty close to your target VPD. Given what your nute company says about Ph problems with their product, I think your biggest problem now is the screwed up VPD. With that high of a VPD, it will drive your plants to uptake water at a pretty high rate and transpire out the leaves. Naturally with an increase of water, you're gonna have an increase in nute uptake. Now what could be happening is that with the large uptake of water and nute caused by the high VPD, you could be causing a deficit in some nute that's in your mix that's not high enough for the increased uptake. This can cause the plant to take that needed nute from the plant itself, hence the spots.
In the previous pics, you had a few bad things going on. Droopy leaves, spots on the leaves,tacoing and alligatoring..............that's seems like an odd combo to me. I'm not that good with diag yet. That why a thread in the infirmary will probably help you in getting your grow back on the right track and hopefully not reoccur.
What I stated about your VPD is a pretty bad problem. If you correct it, it could solve your current problems, but I do think there is some other problem also. 350watts is not too much, but you could have some overlap in three lights that could be possible problems, but I tend to think not.
Take some time to post a detailed thread in the infirmary. Make sure you point out the VPD, how you feed, how your tent is set up and what you have running currently
Tag me over there and I'll see if I can offer some input.
The flush may have helped IF you got runoff. Unless you feed/water somewhere else, I don't see any place for run off.
I don't know much about your media and a little bit about your nutes. If mixed properly, Ph is not supposed to be a problem with the nutes you're using. I did see something about mixing that may be a point to check. Since you're not using a reservoir, I assume you're mixing your nutes in a bucket of some sort. It does state that you add the nutes to the water and mix one ingredient at a time and mix that before you go to the next. Just check your procedures in how you actually do it. That seems odd to me, but that's from their site.................yeah, I dd some research on your stuff. No biggie!
But what I most definitely see is a FAR too low humidity! Your current VPD is WAAAAAAAAAAY off! Your VPD is too high even for flower unless you were adding lots of CO2 in a closed tent.
Your temp is ok for a winter grow, but it could be a little better. You sure need to increase the humidity in the tent!!!
Your current VPD from the above pic is 1.85. With that temp and this stage of life, 65%Rh would get you pretty close to your target VPD. Given what your nute company says about Ph problems with their product, I think your biggest problem now is the screwed up VPD. With that high of a VPD, it will drive your plants to uptake water at a pretty high rate and transpire out the leaves. Naturally with an increase of water, you're gonna have an increase in nute uptake. Now what could be happening is that with the large uptake of water and nute caused by the high VPD, you could be causing a deficit in some nute that's in your mix that's not high enough for the increased uptake. This can cause the plant to take that needed nute from the plant itself, hence the spots.
In the previous pics, you had a few bad things going on. Droopy leaves, spots on the leaves,tacoing and alligatoring..............that's seems like an odd combo to me. I'm not that good with diag yet. That why a thread in the infirmary will probably help you in getting your grow back on the right track and hopefully not reoccur.
What I stated about your VPD is a pretty bad problem. If you correct it, it could solve your current problems, but I do think there is some other problem also. 350watts is not too much, but you could have some overlap in three lights that could be possible problems, but I tend to think not.
Take some time to post a detailed thread in the infirmary. Make sure you point out the VPD, how you feed, how your tent is set up and what you have running currently
Tag me over there and I'll see if I can offer some input.
I know the humidity is low eh? In my SCROG photo period I did before this I was always at 65% - 75% humidity, that was just how it stayed, I had a heavy canopy that I guess held in the moisture. This grow, even after watering the two big ones with 2ltres each I barely get a bump in humidity. I don't have a little humidifier right now as I didn't need one before.
And, since I had that battle with powder mildew last time I've talked about I was happy to have the humidity a bit lower. I didn't think it mattered as much as you're saying as long as they looked good. Still live'n and learn'n big time here. For now maybe I'll put a container of water open inside the tent, see if that brings up the humidity, it should a bit I'd think.
RE: runoff, they are sitting on cleat plastic plant trays that have a bit of a lip. I don't get a lot of runoff, but I have had the tray fill up a bit. I let the plant just suck it back up which happens pretty quick with the smart pots.
I'm gonna have to do some reading about the effects of humidity on cannabis now. I will note that the damage seemed to really happen that one night, and it's not progressively getting worse at this point. But moody Brucey is giving my first auto grow some panic attacks. I'd be pissed if I totally lost her at this stage.
Last edited:
As long as you monitor the situation and heed most of the advice that your given you will probably be OK it doesn't seem too bad at the moment and they are stronger then you think and with brucey being as far along as it is roots are probably pretty developed I have found personally they can handle a beating. I use an app to track vpd which I wasn't fully aware of before this site. You just need laser thermometer as from what I gather its as important in the calculations as air temperature. Its an easy app to use though just type the numbers in temp, humidity and leaf temps and it shows you what your vpd is and what range is ideal for what stage it has helped me dial that in a little bit. But it's a work in progress for me and there is never an end to the learning.
Gotta get that humidifier but in Lockdown cause of Covid, so it will be a few days while I order one online. I bet they're gonna extend that lockdown until Ontario gets to less than 1,000 cases a day. Brutal. Glad I'm not a small business owner losing everything they worked for.
It's crazy dude! I've got a friend in Toronto. Hopefully he's not in the same boat. I haven't talked to him in a week.
Hopefully the flushing will get your bigger girls fixed up, but your baby will struggle for a bit with the humidity.
edit..........He says he can do curbside.. LOL!
Yeah VPD is off the charts, that's a really good point. You can mist the walls of your tent with a laundry spray bottle filled with tap water, but ultimately the best solution is to get RH up outside the tent with humidification so there isn't such a 'deficit'
Similar threads
