Indoor HM's Vision Northern Lights Grow Journal

Found an excellent link to how neem works as an insecticide. http://www.discoverneem.com/neem-oil-insecticide.html According to this article, you do not get instant kill, rather a slower effect over time. So I guess seeing live adults 36 hours after application is nothing to get excited about. I just ordered 150 lady bugs to put in the tent. After seeing what the neem did to my buds, I want to try to avoid another application. Also, while researching neem, I read that you are not suppose to use spinosad during flowering. So I am going to try and let the lady bugs keep things under control.
 
:toke: HM-- My understanding is that neither neem/Azamax nor spinosad are instant killers, but both should sicken them quickly and stop their feeding... they need to be contacted with the solution well enough when sprayed to be dosed lethally-- a real challenge when dealing with a plant like this! So many potential places to find even partial shielding, especially on a budding plant,...think of this at their scale, and you can see how this could be, even if it seems you've all but immersed the plant in the stuff! :doh: ... this is one reason why repeated dosing is called for, and better still, alternating products to cover possible resistance to the product as well... recall too, that adults can fly! ..their bodies are not as tender and vulnerable as larvae either,... The pistils are pretty fragile, and neem does have surfactant properties; too strong of a solution can burn even the leaves...Azamax is derived from neem, and doesn't have the fatty oils that raw neem has, so it seems a bit gentler... neem oil can mess with growth hormones, feeding responses, and can clog breathing pores too.... Spinosad is derived from a bacterium, and acts as a neurotoxin; where did you read that it's bad to use during flowering? I'm interested, as I've not heard this yet, and have an open mind-- I have used it during flowering, mildly, not heavily though... I grow outside, so thrips are automatic for me!
:amazon: :pimphand: keep the fight up mate, you're doing what you should be doing! :slap:
 
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:toke: HM-- My understanding is that neither neem/Azamax nor spinosad are instant killers, but both should sicken them quickly and stop their feeding... they need to be contacted with the solution well enough when sprayed to be dosed lethally-- a real challenge when dealing with a plant like this! So many potential places to find even partial shielding, especially on a budding plant,...think of this at their scale, and you can see how this could be, even if it seems you've all but immersed the plant in the stuff! :doh: ... this is one reason why repeated dosing is called for, and better still, alternating products to cover possible resistance to the product as well... recall too, that adults can fly! ..their bodies are not as tender and vulnerable as larvae either,... The pistils are pretty fragile, and neem does have surfactant properties; too strong of a solution can burn even the leaves...Azamax is derived from neem, and doesn't have the fatty oils that raw neem has, so it seems a bit gentler... neem oil can mess with growth hormones, feeding responses, and can clog breathing pores too.... Spinosad is derived from a bacterium, and acts as a neurotoxin; where did you read that it's bad to use during flowering? I'm interested, as I've not heard this yet, and have an open mind-- I have used it during flowering, mildly, not heavily though... I grow outside, so thrips are automatic for me!
:amazon: :pimphand: keep the fight up mate, you're doing what you should be doing! :slap:

@Waira here is the exerpt from U of Cal bulletin concerning thrip IPM. The last sentence says about the not using on flowering plants. Don't know if it is just cosmetic reasoning or physiological? http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7429.html

Spinosad (Captain Jack’s Deadbug Brew, Green Light Lawn & Garden Spray with Spinosad 2, Monterey Garden Insect Spray) is generally more effective against thrips than the products above. Spinosad lasts 1 week or more and moves short distances into sprayed tissue (has translaminar activity) to reach thrips feeding in protected plant parts. Adding horticultural oil to the spray mix can increase its persistence within plant tissue. This insecticide is a fermentation product of a naturally occurring bacterium, and certain formulations are organically acceptable. Spinosad can be toxic to certain natural enemies (e.g., predatory mites, syrphid fly larvae) and bees when sprayed and for about 1 day afterward; do not apply spinosad to plants that are flowering.
 
:thumbsup: great find brudda! ...the warning given there is about protecting beneficial insects from the spinosad.... Very cool! I didn't know Spinosad could penetrate the cuticle layer into the tissues beneath, where they vermins want to tap into.. :muahaha:-- it's like a "shallow systemic", and will dose them if they feed on treated areas, and nail embedded eggs! So, if it lasts about a week, then you can stop dosing around the time you go into cleansing period before harvest,... hopefully, you won't have to grind that hard and long on treatments! Both the mentioned products can be found at Home Depot and other common garden centers,.. HM are you close to one of these, or is that why you had to order online? ..... :cheers:
 
:thumbsup: great find brudda! ...the warning given there is about protecting beneficial insects from the spinosad.... Very cool! I didn't know Spinosad could penetrate the cuticle layer into the tissues beneath, where they vermins want to tap into.. :muahaha:-- it's like a "shallow systemic", and will dose them if they feed on treated areas, and nail embedded eggs! So, if it lasts about a week, then you can stop dosing around the time you go into cleansing period before harvest,... hopefully, you won't have to grind that hard and long on treatments! Both the mentioned products can be found at Home Depot and other common garden centers,.. HM are you close to one of these, or is that why you had to order online? ..... :cheers:
yeah, I kinda live out in the sticks. Closest large town is 2 hrs. Getting there is another problem, mobility limited.
 
4/11/16 - Day 66 - Fed 4 liters 5 ml/Gallon FloroKleen.

4/13/16 - Day 68 - Thrips are back. Adults and larvae. pH via A8 = 6.6
Fed 4 liters 2 ml/L Bloom A&B, CalMagic, 5 ml/Gallon MicroBlast, 1 ml/L B52, Bud Candy, Big Bud, Rhino Skin. ppm = 1080 pH = 6.3
Applied thick layer of diatomacious earth to medium surface.
Applied 1/2 tbs/16oz water of neem oil solution until dripping top and bottom.

4/15/16 - Day 70 - Fed 4 liters 2ml/L Bloom A&B, CalMagic, 1 ml/L B52, Overdrive, Bud Candy, Rhino Skin. ppm = 1100 , pH = 6.3
Note the change from Big Bud to Overdrive.

4/17/16 - Day 72 - neem treatment burned tips of leaves, very similar to nute burn tips. Pistils darkened and withered some due to the neem application. Normal Growth.
Fed 4 liters same mix as day 70. Reapplied a layer of diatomacious earth after feeding washed away most of the first layer.
The thrip infestation is being held in check for now. Not alot of damage and would like to keep it that way. Captain Jacks brew is sitting in the PO, and will apply probably Tue AM.

Here are pics from today - Day 72
VNL Day 72.JPG



VNL Day 72 (3).JPG

VNL Day 72 (2).JPG

VNL Day 72 (4).JPG


Here are pics of the Cash Crop. She is getting same thrip treatment as the NL. Reapplied neem oil treatment today with Cash Crop. Going to wait for Captain Jack treatment on NL due to being so thick into bloom.
COCCC Day 37 (2).JPG

COCCC Day 37 (3).JPG

COCCC Day 37.JPG
 
4/11/16 - Day 66 - Fed 4 liters 5 ml/Gallon FloroKleen.

4/13/16 - Day 68 - Thrips are back. Adults and larvae. pH via A8 = 6.6
Fed 4 liters 2 ml/L Bloom A&B, CalMagic, 5 ml/Gallon MicroBlast, 1 ml/L B52, Bud Candy, Big Bud, Rhino Skin. ppm = 1080 pH = 6.3
Applied thick layer of diatomacious earth to medium surface.
Applied 1/2 tbs/16oz water of neem oil solution until dripping top and bottom.

4/15/16 - Day 70 - Fed 4 liters 2ml/L Bloom A&B, CalMagic, 1 ml/L B52, Overdrive, Bud Candy, Rhino Skin. ppm = 1100 , pH = 6.3
Note the change from Big Bud to Overdrive.

4/17/16 - Day 72 - neem treatment burned tips of leaves, very similar to nute burn tips. Pistils darkened and withered some due to the neem application. Normal Growth.
Fed 4 liters same mix as day 70. Reapplied a layer of diatomacious earth after feeding washed away most of the first layer.
The thrip infestation is being held in check for now. Not alot of damage and would like to keep it that way. Captain Jacks brew is sitting in the PO, and will apply probably Tue AM.

Here are pics from today - Day 72
View attachment 554905


View attachment 554903
View attachment 554902
View attachment 554904

Here are pics of the Cash Crop. She is getting same thrip treatment as the NL. Reapplied neem oil treatment today with Cash Crop. Going to wait for Captain Jack treatment on NL due to being so thick into bloom.
View attachment 554916
View attachment 554917
View attachment 554918
Glad uve got those pesky thrips undercontrol she still looks good after the treatment
 
Ok, lesson #1 - DO NOT put that much diatomacious earch on top your medium. It turned into clay like layer that would not let anything go down. Water just stood on top like a bowl. I had to take an awl and break up about the top 2 inches to break it up enough to let the water go through.
This AM I drop the Accurate 8 in and my pH was 5.2!!!! I started an emergency flush and that is when I discovered the diotomacious earth problem. Got everything flowing and gave her a good flush in the bath tub and followed up with 2 liters 2 ml/L Boom A&B, CalMagic, 5 ml/G MicroBlast, 1 ml/L B52, Rhino Skin, Overdrive, Bud Candy. ppm 1100 pH 6.3.
Applied the Captain Jacks for the last thrip treatment. After everything dried, I sent in the ground troops, 150 (more like 500 by the looks in the package) lady bugs to do mop up on any survivors. Just amazing watching that many ladybugs scouring your plants.

Lady Bug Release 1.jpg
 
I wonder if the diatomacious earth had anything to do with my very sudden pH drop? Lack of air getting through from the top?? The Cash Crop had a similar pH drop, just not as extreme, down to 6.2 which really is just on the low end, not a problem. I gave the Cash Crop a feeding of 4 liters of 5 ml/G FloroKleen. Will check pH again tomorrow AM if the bugs don't attack me when I open the tent.
 
Ok, lesson #1 - DO NOT put that much diatomacious earch on top your medium. It turned into clay like layer that would not let anything go down. Water just stood on top like a bowl. I had to take an awl and break up about the top 2 inches to break it up enough to let the water go through.
This AM I drop the Accurate 8 in and my pH was 5.2!!!! I started an emergency flush and that is when I discovered the diotomacious earth problem. Got everything flowing and gave her a good flush in the bath tub and followed up with 2 liters 2 ml/L Boom A&B, CalMagic, 5 ml/G MicroBlast, 1 ml/L B52, Rhino Skin, Overdrive, Bud Candy. ppm 1100 pH 6.3.
Applied the Captain Jacks for the last thrip treatment. After everything dried, I sent in the ground troops, 150 (more like 500 by the looks in the package) lady bugs to do mop up on any survivors. Just amazing watching that many ladybugs scouring your plants.

View attachment 555827
That was a great idea I take it the lady bugs have no effect on the plants
 
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