Tommy McCain
Manure Connoisseur
Too bad the opioids got Tom Petty. Those pills are killing people and Doctors still have the nerve to say that canna is not medical. At least the herb does not kill!
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Hecno's on going organics
- Thread starter hecno
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Farming Microbe's -- Well that;s what I call it . 1st photo soil from wild Pig wallow . Now in the rain forest . All 7 day old .
2nd Photo , This is something I am trying out , Muesli bar , crunched up , under forest litter . This is full of microbes .
Now this next photo is organic rice under Bamboo . again 7 days old .
Now Mr @Eyes on Fire what would be the best way to use these in Teas . Next photo is my Daughter and her boyfriend , both 18 and mad keen pig hunters , They came up for the weekend to hunt , This one they got last night .
They judge a pig by it's tusks . not weight . This one has a good set .More Asian blood in this one
2nd Photo , This is something I am trying out , Muesli bar , crunched up , under forest litter . This is full of microbes .
Now this next photo is organic rice under Bamboo . again 7 days old .
Now Mr @Eyes on Fire what would be the best way to use these in Teas . Next photo is my Daughter and her boyfriend , both 18 and mad keen pig hunters , They came up for the weekend to hunt , This one they got last night .
They judge a pig by it's tusks . not weight . This one has a good set .More Asian blood in this one
Let them know congrats on the pig hunt. Now it's time to get the pit ready for a cookout.
calliandra
soils apprentice
Hmm, I'm still a bit on the fence with these microbe harvesting methods.
My issue with them is, the foods used are usually something I'd assume to be more of bacterial foods?
Rice, which is widely used, is a seed for example, so rather on the hi nitrogen /simple sugars end, whilst the beneficial fungi we are usually looking for when turning to these methods prefer complex compounds, like polysaccharides, cellulose, fats...?
So I'm not sure whether the microbes collected in these ways are actually what we are hoping for...
Any thoughts on that?
You definitely seem to have very alive soils there though, that's for sure!!
I bet you could inoculate your soils with just a straight handful of that too
Cheers!
@calliandra Very good question . The way I see it is using what is there , I see the same microbes with out feeding , so to my way of thinking they can do no harm . The Muesli bar was interesting , Totally different microbe's , maybe the fats have something to do with it [ Muesli is a breakfast and brunch dish based on raw rolled oats and other ingredients like grains, fresh or dried fruits, seeds and nuts, that may be mixed with cow's milk, soy milk, almond milk, other plant milks, yogurt or fruit juice. being they microbes and fungi are all in the soil they must be part of the answer , the different foods attract different microbes . I see amazing rain forest growth in my yard and sit and ponder , how the hell do you get so big . I now know . So as you say
My issue with them is, the foods used are usually something I'd assume to be more of bacterial foods?
Rice, which is widely used, is a seed for example, so rather on the hi nitrogen /simple sugars end, whilst the beneficial fungi we are usually looking for when turning to these methods prefer complex compounds, like polysaccharides, cellulose, fats...?
So I'm not sure whether the microbes collected in these ways are actually what we are hoping for...--- This is what we need more understanding of .Then we can target them . with the feed that will attract them to be able to harvest them . I love this subject so much to learn .
.
My issue with them is, the foods used are usually something I'd assume to be more of bacterial foods?
Rice, which is widely used, is a seed for example, so rather on the hi nitrogen /simple sugars end, whilst the beneficial fungi we are usually looking for when turning to these methods prefer complex compounds, like polysaccharides, cellulose, fats...?
So I'm not sure whether the microbes collected in these ways are actually what we are hoping for...--- This is what we need more understanding of .Then we can target them . with the feed that will attract them to be able to harvest them . I love this subject so much to learn .
.
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In natural Korean farming harvesting microbes is the name of the game along with fermented plant juices the wide assortment of molds white molds help the plant access nutrients breaking down what is needed they speed things along an open plants benefits an immunitys .Soil helpers like this are an so valuable to life I believe these fungus an bacteria are actually the building blocks of life an being some of the oldest living organisms there potential in natural farming is amazing .The ability to gather these organisms using rice or black leaf mold or making a fermented plant juice that you picked in the early morning before the sun or rain took off the microbes does amazing in a tea my friend nature truly provides now the question is how to harness it why an how been trying to answer that for years I'm obsessed with these answers .Hmm, I'm still a bit on the fence with these microbe harvesting methods.
My issue with them is, the foods used are usually something I'd assume to be more of bacterial foods?
Rice, which is widely used, is a seed for example, so rather on the hi nitrogen /simple sugars end, whilst the beneficial fungi we are usually looking for when turning to these methods prefer complex compounds, like polysaccharides, cellulose, fats...?
So I'm not sure whether the microbes collected in these ways are actually what we are hoping for...
Any thoughts on that?
You definitely seem to have very alive soils there though, that's for sure!!
I bet you could inoculate your soils with just a straight handful of that too
Cheers!
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I often imagine having a nice mycelium mold patch made with some rice an composted cow manure an dripping my water over it an not having it touch the soil but letting the water come from this suspended microbe patch I believe the plants nutrional needs would be met the soil would be so packed of beneficals an any run off would be beneficial.
calliandra
soils apprentice
@dankstyle J oh I don't doubt the value of KNF methods at all, especially for natural agriculture in Korea, there are just a bunch of aspects that don't go straightforwardly with what I'm learning about microbial balance in the soil myself at the moment.
It would be really interesting to see how our current knowledge about soil ecologies relates to traditional methods, that is, how their methods actually served to keep the soils healthy, and there afaik there are a few that did work sustainably!
@hecno, I'm pretty sure the lushness you see around you springs from an intact and successionally adequate soil microbial ecosystem, not single organisms - as industrially funded scientific studies about THIS bacterium or THIS fungus may lead us to suppose. Those are just little puzzle pieces of an amazing whole we are utterly dependent upon but have been thinking we were above these past few hundred years.
The truth is, we are finding more and more how it is the interaction between different kinds of microbes in different compositions for different types of plants that leads to abundance and vitality.
In fact, I don't see us getting anywhere truly conclusive concerning who does what exactly in the soil for a very long time, especially if you consider that the most recent estimation of total species on Earth was in the trillions, and most of them microbes - check out this graphic that shows very nicely how our understanding of this is evolving (after it just got revised by a recent study):
edit: oops sorry the source got truncated in the graphic: https://ensia.com/notable/species/
So that's why I suggested you may be better off simply taking a handful of that lovely soil and inoculating your gardens with that, because then you'll be inoculating the whole microbial ecosystem, not just those microbes, of whom we don't even definitely know anything, that get attracted by different food sources...
Of course, that would be way boring -- you definitely can play around way more with divers food plugs, get crazy colored stuff growing on it, all totally amazing and mysterious
Cheers!
It would be really interesting to see how our current knowledge about soil ecologies relates to traditional methods, that is, how their methods actually served to keep the soils healthy, and there afaik there are a few that did work sustainably!
@hecno, I'm pretty sure the lushness you see around you springs from an intact and successionally adequate soil microbial ecosystem, not single organisms - as industrially funded scientific studies about THIS bacterium or THIS fungus may lead us to suppose. Those are just little puzzle pieces of an amazing whole we are utterly dependent upon but have been thinking we were above these past few hundred years
.The truth is, we are finding more and more how it is the interaction between different kinds of microbes in different compositions for different types of plants that leads to abundance and vitality.
In fact, I don't see us getting anywhere truly conclusive concerning who does what exactly in the soil for a very long time, especially if you consider that the most recent estimation of total species on Earth was in the trillions, and most of them microbes - check out this graphic that shows very nicely how our understanding of this is evolving (after it just got revised by a recent study):
edit: oops sorry the source got truncated in the graphic: https://ensia.com/notable/species/
So that's why I suggested you may be better off simply taking a handful of that lovely soil and inoculating your gardens with that, because then you'll be inoculating the whole microbial ecosystem, not just those microbes, of whom we don't even definitely know anything, that get attracted by different food sources...
Of course, that would be way boring -- you definitely can play around way more with divers food plugs, get crazy colored stuff growing on it, all totally amazing and mysterious
Cheers!
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What's worked for me to understand microbes an how they work is to incorporate many different styles of organics an developing my own understanding through growing reading an even just taking a walk in my Pacific northwest forest seeing all the life many questions many answers with a good microscope you can see microbes up close an personal in the forest or even on a well rotted compost pile ever thing working perfectly I find myself trying to scope so many things .
@calliandra ---- I'm pretty sure the lushness you see around you springs from an intact and successionally adequate soil microbial ecosystem, not single organisms - as industrially funded scientific studies about THIS bacterium or THIS fungus may lead us to suppose. Those are just little puzzle pieces of an amazing whole we are utterly dependent upon but have been thinking we were above these past few hundred years .----- This is the way I am starting to think too , I am lucky I have a rain forest right beside me , which I spent a fair bit of time sitting in and looking at . I am already moving to adding different soils to inoculate the main soil , I'll post some photos later today of some capsicum plants which I have done this to . And @dankstyle J [ I find myself trying to scope so many things ] --- I hear ya there mate -- Me too -- I had a mate come around the other day and I was watering the outside soil beds with a tea I made , He had know idea what I was doing and thought I was mad , At least the wife understands now , 
.----- This is the way I am starting to think too , I am lucky I have a rain forest right beside me , which I spent a fair bit of time sitting in and looking at . I am already moving to adding different soils to inoculate the main soil , I'll post some photos later today of some capsicum plants which I have done this to . And @dankstyle J [ I find myself trying to scope so many things ] --- I hear ya there mate -- Me too -- I had a mate come around the other day and I was watering the outside soil beds with a tea I made , He had know idea what I was doing and thought I was mad , At least the wife understands now , Similar threads
