New Grower Equatorial Tropical Indoor Mephisto Grow (Chemdogging + Northern Cheese Haze)

[bakEQuatorial]

The FIRST time i watered was 2 days ago was not to runoff at all. Just a couple litres in each pot iirc so no runoff. Never ever watered this soil enough to get runoff until that final time and I only did it to 2.-3 pots. 3rd pot final reading was 1600ppm lol. They are actually 3 gals realistically as well. They have not drooped, infact the opposite, one of them is now full on praying and others following suit a bit.


Anyway, yes they wont need watering for about another week till they dry out and the pots are light to pick up.
Apparently super soil can have super high ppm runoffs and not effect the plants too badly. Hopefully they will grow out of it.

You can check the Day 11 update bro. You specifically mentioned 3-5 litres, 10%-20% runoff. Imo, I never need more than 5 litres per 5 gallon fabric pot, even when top inch is dry. And I get significant run off. Heck I just watered today so I'm quite sure LOL

Like I said, let them be if they are healthy. The run off ppm doesn’t tell much. Especially if you take first few drops, ppm gonna high for sure. Think about it! You’ll get my meaning.

I have seen experts around here warn against mixing coco coir with soil. Weird things happen it seems but I have no first hand experience so gonna leave it at that.

If you have access to pre made soils, looks like you do and can afford it, why give up so soon? Like you said, you messed up the steps so it probably isn’t the soil’s fault. Mixing your own, you can mess up the same too. Just saying. At least run it proper once before deciding it’s not for you. I spent a long time reading and researching. Almost two years before I feel ready to go full organic living soil come next round.

If you mix your own, read up on all common living soil amendments and requirements. As many as you can. This includes inputs for macro, micro and minerals, together with bacteria, fungi, enzymes, hormones, amino, humid, fulvic acid sources. Get familiar with the bioavailability of all these inputs. Some are slow some are fast. Some are so slow it don’t make sense. Too fast too much and it burns or stunts. Understand how and why certain inputs are safer to add large amounts but why some, you shouldn’t? There will be lotsa contradictions online but follow logic and KIS!

Your setup is really nice. Pretty sure you’re not in my part of the woods cos I cannot economically procure the stuff you have. Hope my experience helps. Your thread title just gets my attention each time! Lol

 

[IndoorTropics]

You can check the Day 11 update bro. You specifically mentioned 3-5 litres, 10%-20% runoff. Imo, I never need more than 5 litres per 5 gallon fabric pot, even when top inch is dry. And I get significant run off. Heck I just watered today so I'm quite sure LOL

Like I said, let them be if they are healthy. The run off ppm doesn’t tell much. Especially if you take first few drops, ppm gonna high for sure. Think about it! You’ll get my meaning.

I have seen experts around here warn against mixing coco coir with soil. Weird things happen it seems but I have no first hand experience so gonna leave it at that.

If you have access to pre made soils, looks like you do and can afford it, why give up so soon? Like you said, you messed up the steps so it probably isn’t the soil’s fault. Mixing your own, you can mess up the same too. Just saying. At least run it proper once before deciding it’s not for you. I spent a long time reading and researching. Almost two years before I feel ready to go full organic living soil come next round.

If you mix your own, read up on all common living soil amendments and requirements. As many as you can. This includes inputs for macro, micro and minerals, together with bacteria, fungi, enzymes, hormones, amino, humid, fulvic acid sources. Get familiar with the bioavailability of all these inputs. Some are slow some are fast. Some are so slow it don’t make sense. Too fast too much and it burns or stunts. Understand how and why certain inputs are safer to add large amounts but why some, you shouldn’t? There will be lotsa contradictions online but follow logic and KIS!

Your setup is really nice. Pretty sure you’re not in my part of the woods cos I cannot economically procure the stuff you have. Hope my experience helps. Your thread title just gets my attention each time! Lol

Looks like you are correct about the watering and anyhow it is not something i would usually do but considering i am learning this first grow i thought it best to diverge a few pots and see how they all get on. Regarding the substrate no i am not giving up yet at all on this current grow and pushing through till the end.

However, I would like to test coco alongside this grow so that next time I know which I prefer and can manage more easily. There are no pre-bagged quality soils such as Biobizz available here. I am pretty set on Biotabs but not any particular medium just yet, so best find that out.

I am going to trial other seedlings in coco medium next week. Going to try and find a light potting mix and the coco one i found and will be testing:

• coco/perlite/worm castings - 50/40/10
• 100 g of Guanokalong powder (1-10-1)
• 100 g of Startrex
• 100 g of Silicium Flash
• 2-3 g of Mycotrex (the newer instructions advise to put all 5g per pot in the planting hole, I like some in my mix )
• 60g of dolomite lime

 

[bakEQuatorial]

Looks like you are correct about the watering and anyhow it is not something i would usually do but considering i am learning this first grow i thought it best to diverge a few pots and see how they all get on. Regarding the substrate no i am not giving up yet at all on this current grow and pushing through till the end.

However, I would like to test coco alongside this grow so that next time I know which I prefer and can manage more easily. There are no pre-bagged quality soils such as Biobizz available here. I am pretty set on Biotabs but not any particular medium just yet, so best find that out.

I am going to trial other seedlings in coco medium next week. Here is one i found and will be testing:

• coco/perlite/worm castings - 50/40/10
• 100 g of Guanokalong powder (1-10-1)
• 100 g of Startrex
• 100 g of Silicium Flash
• 2-3 g of Mycotrex (the newer instructions advise to put all 5g per pot in the planting hole, I like some in my mix )
• 60g of dolomite lime

Read my suggestions in the last post. I was like you when I first started but was straightened out by my man @hecno . A fantastic grower!

Anyways, I suggested that you get familiar with all the inputs. Then ask yourself why are you adding it and how much? Do you really need it? Do you have a basic idea what the plants need at each stage? Are you aware how the nutrients are made available? Do you wanna make a water only soil? Or supplement with some organic nutes either bought or DIY? I get what Biotabs do but I never used them. Won’t be my choice but go ahead and follow what they recommend and not mess with it too much.

Just buying and using everything without an objective is risky and expensive.

As an example, let’s use your new formula. Why are you considering Coco? Are you aware they require different preparation before grow and follow hydro rules with regards to PH and EC. Are you ready to add a different set of rules to your grow? Why risk it cos it’s like half soil and half soil less? Just get an organic potting soil mix with no nutes and you’re golden.

Why is Guano added and in such large amounts? Did Biotabs recommend it? I assume 100g for one 5 gallon pot? For autos, may be too much? But may not cos you’re not adding much else. Also if you add Guano for its high P content, what about N and P? What about micronutrients like Cal Mag etc? Dolomite will have Cal. What about trace minerals or microbes? And there is the question of do we want to add so much into the soil when we can top dress later? Or make tea? Ferment stuff? Etc? Maybe we want some to break down in soil first then add more later? Maybe not?

Startrex is organic slow release fert 3-1-2. Looks great but may need more P and K during flower. Guano will give a good P boost but may still lack in P. Flash is 4-3-3 and should be well balanced enough to cover all bases. Are you happy with the content of your mix? Cos everyone you ask will give a different opinion. Some may feel you have too high N. Some may feel u need more K. Others may tell you to add a whole load of other stuff. At the end of the day, as long as you can justify your mix, I say go with it!

Start reading more before spending so much. You’ll thank me later grow bro!

 

[IndoorTropics]

Read my suggestions in the last post. I was like you when I first started but was straightened out by my man @hecno . A fantastic grower!

Anyways, I suggested that you get familiar with all the inputs. Then ask yourself why are you adding it and how much? Do you really need it? Do you have a basic idea what the plants need at each stage? Are you aware how the nutrients are made available? Do you wanna make a water only soil? Or supplement with some organic nutes either bought or DIY? I get what Biotabs do but I never used them. Won’t be my choice but go ahead and follow what they recommend and not mess with it too much.

Just buying and using everything without an objective is risky and expensive.

As an example, let’s use your new formula. Why are you considering Coco? Are you aware they require different preparation before grow and follow hydro rules with regards to PH and EC. Are you ready to add a different set of rules to your grow? Why risk it cos it’s like half soil and half soil less? Just get an organic potting soil mix with no nutes and you’re golden.

Why is Guano added and in such large amounts? Did Biotabs recommend it? I assume 100g for one 5 gallon pot? For autos, may be too much? But may not cos you’re not adding much else. Also if you add Guano for its high P content, what about N and P? What about micronutrients like Cal Mag etc? Dolomite will have Cal. What about trace minerals or microbes? And there is the question of do we want to add so much into the soil when we can top dress later? Or make tea? Ferment stuff? Etc? Maybe we want some to break down in soil first then add more later? Maybe not?

Startrex is organic slow release fert 3-1-2. Looks great but may need more P and K during flower. Guano will give a good P boost but may still lack in P. Flash is 4-3-3 and should be well balanced enough to cover all bases. Are you happy with the content of your mix? Cos everyone you ask will give a different opinion. Some may feel you have too high N. Some may feel u need more K. Others may tell you to add a whole load of other stuff. At the end of the day, as long as you can justify your mix, I say go with it!

Start reading more before spending so much. You’ll thank me later grow bro!

Agreed. Coco sounds great but I do like plants in soil and the whole coco thing is getting complicated for my liking. Literally just found some organic potting mix with PH of 5.5-6.5 and EC of 0.7, which i couldn't find to begin with. Will add in a bit more perlite and off we go with the Biotabs formula again.

Thanks for your advice. Better keep it simple.

 

[bakEQuatorial]

Agreed. Coco sounds great but I do like plants in soil and the whole coco thing is getting complicated for my liking. Literally just found some organic potting mix with PH of 5.5-6.5 and EC of 0.7, which i couldn't find to begin with. Will add in a bit more perlite and off we go with the Biotabs formula again.

Thanks for your advice. Better keep it simple.

Sounds solid and you won’t be making the same mistake again. Go for a base soil mix as recommended by Biotabs or swore by current users. Should not be difficult to find.

Otherwise my personal suggestion based on the fact that you are a new grower and also cos you have good organic ferts at hand is,

50% to 60% potting soil mix, 20% Worm Castings, 20% aeration. Another 5% to 10% can be some form of large stones as base on bottom or even biochar mixed in if you can get some but optional. Mix till you can make a clump but it should break very easily. That will give you an idea of how aerated it is. This will be base soil for you to add, if any amendments that you want.

Your soil now will need to be moisten your and allowed to sit. I usually drench them with whatever microbe product I have at hand. Biotabs should have a guide for how long since it’s their amendments? Keep watering during cook time. Never let dry out. After this is done, I never bother to check soil ph anymore. Just ph my water for feed. Never had an issue. Used straight recycled soil without amending and cooking, I had issues.

Have fun!

 

[IndoorTropics]

Sounds solid and you won’t be making the same mistake again. Go for a base soil mix as recommended by Biotabs or swore by current users. Should not be difficult to find.

Otherwise my personal suggestion based on the fact that you are a new grower and also cos you have good organic ferts at hand is,

50% to 60% potting soil mix, 20% Worm Castings, 20% aeration. Another 5% to 10% can be some form of large stones as base on bottom or even biochar mixed in if you can get some but optional. Mix till you can make a clump but it should break very easily. That will give you an idea of how aerated it is. This will be base soil for you to add, if any amendments that you want.

Your soil now will need to be moisten your and allowed to sit. I usually drench them with whatever microbe product I have at hand. Biotabs should have a guide for how long since it’s their amendments? Keep watering during cook time. Never let dry out. After this is done, I never bother to check soil ph anymore. Just ph my water for feed. Never had an issue. Used straight recycled soil without amending and cooking, I had issues.

Have fun!

Thank you. I will exactly follow your proposed mixing guide.

"Keep watering during cook time. Never let dry out."

1) Initial drench to fully soak the pot just to the point of runoff?

2) Once drenched, how long are we "cooking" for before planting seeds or seedlings + once drenched how much water would you roughly add per day to keep 3 gals of mix moist?

3) Would hydroton pebbles work for the large stone at the bottom?

 

[hecno]

Interesting reading guys , I agree with @BakEQ as you are starting out on organics keep it simple , that goes for your soil and feeding , get to understand what your nutrients do for the plant , then progress to understanding soil soil , I live remote and can't get a lot of the things you can , if I can it costs a arm and a leg to get posted here . So I use as much local inputs as I can find , Hench the need for understanding what you are adding to your soil . To give you a idea . In the first photo is a wild bush turkey nest . This one would be around 10 years old . With out disturbing it to much I dig down to the bottom from the side and gather enough for what I need to add to my soil 20 % - 30 % what helps give my soil its water holding capacity with out being water logged .

which in turn cuts back on watering , This plant in the photo has only been watered 4 times in 20 days for a total of about 3 liters . another big factor is the microbes I gain . I make big amounts of soil and can be 6 months old before I use some , I have the soil in big tubs up to 200 liter at times . With soil I feed it as you would a plant , also worms [ native ] are in the soil so it becomes a in closed eco system . The more you can understand your soil and inputs the better your plants will be . It has taken me 5 years to get to where I am at , and still have a way to go yet . 27 liter pots.

I I can help in any way all you have to do is ask .

 

[IndoorTropics]

@hecno Thank you for commenting and offering your help. I have read quite a few of your posts already in several other threads so really do appreciate you stopping by.

Luckily for you hehe, I think finally we are getting somewhere in regards to my fresh soil mix:

55% potting soil mix (pH: 5.5 - 6.5 and EC: 0.4 - 0.5 mS/cm)
20% Worm Castings
20% Perlite
5% hydroton pebbles at bottom
50-100g bat guano powder (0-10-0) - optional?
CalMag? Currently have one but it has 2% N. Not sure if this will be ok?

Using RO bottled water with PH of 6.7 and EC of 20.

I will mix the soil up as above, drench it with recommended initial feed of Mycotrex, Bactrex, Orgatrex and Startrex (No silicium flash). Then wait for it to cook, keeping it moist with a little water (with bactrex) each day for 3-4 days? Sound good so far?

Once the above process is complete, I will plant my SEED directly into the final 3 gal pot and add only water. Again, Calmag?

At about day 10-14, just before watering time, I will add 2x Biotabs into the soil. Then proceed to water as usual.

From here on out I just add:
water
biotabs week 5 feeding routine
calmag?
bio PK at low dosage

 

[hecno]

What do you use to feed the microbes in the soil .

 

[IndoorTropics]

What do you use to feed the microbes in the soil .

been reading here

carbs. so molasses in the orgatrex and Bio Pk (during flowering)?

or should i supplement with additional Blackstrap molasses just on watering days as per the linked guide?