Crossing auto strains = fully auto?

[Epic Genetics]

I had to prune the main cola because it was getting really heavy and tall. It was not going to be consumed so I had no regrets doing it. The lower branches are not really too developed, and are mostly formed of small buds. I was happy to found this:
View attachment 102879

These look like pollen sacks forming, and actually a bit open. There are several of this formations on some budsites, so I think it's OK to say that the CS worked. At least it produced pollen sacks! Now let's see if these pollen sacks produce viable pollen, which could be a difficult thing. I have decided not to try and collect pollen by hand, but to leave the plant to try "natural" pollination on the other plants that are with it. I would not mind a seeded harvest, in fact I would like it!

you definately have male flowers , my fingers are crossed for you that they are due to the c.s and no other reasons

my best advice is to allow the plant to pollinate as long as possible because from my experience the early flowers dont open on their own , but within a couple days the next group open just fine , if it is a late pollination you might have to let the plant flower longer then normal to allow the younger seeds/later pollinated seeds to fully mature , otherwise you very well could end up with way more imature seeds and very few useable mature ones

best of luck and keep us updated

peace

 

[Irish Pride]

i've had success with sts solution. im not a fan of making fem lines but i use it them as a breeding tool since i dont have enough room for thousands of plants i like to better my odds of finding that killer fem by takeing a few of the best females and reversing one and pollenating the others then sorting through the offspring for my keeper/breeder. i'd love to learn more about reversing a male to be pollenated by other males to create all male seeds some day to do the opposite to find killer males.

 

[drewbot]

I'm sortof still pondering the OP's question here. The auto trait is or is not controlled by a single allele? It seems to me that the mere existence of early photo is evidence to the contrary. Could this be a set of alleles which control the level of florigen in the subsequent progeny?

It's my opinion that the flowering process is probably the most important thing a plant can do to reproduce itself. It's up there, at least. Florigen is hardly understood and the flowering process has puzzled us poor ass weed growers for many a' year. It would be of no surprise to me if there were multiple alleles which control the florigen production time and level. DJ Short may have taught a little about breeding in his book- and his big "secret" that he eludes to is decreasing the photoperiod to see where the critical dark cycle length sits for each plant. Obviously there is also a level of root binding that will finish off a plant. The obvious environmental factors that tell a lady to attract pollen quickly are the signs that (1) there's competition nearby and (2) the season is almost over. In both cases get sticky or die and fail to pass your genes. But I digress.

Back to DJ Short he mentioned knowing what trait to breed for. He has a nose like a bloodhound so he keeps his stuff smelling good but he's otherwise kindof a shitty breeder. He bred with photoperiod in mind when he did Flo. Flo has a very specific LOW critical dark period. It will flower when you drop from 16 hours to 14.5 hours and maybe drop the temps a degree. It shows a very sharp critical dark period. Otherwise it teaches a bit about the critical dark period. I'll give props to DJ Short for teaching this single principle.

I see that there are many factors causing the "auto trait." I believe that it is not just "dropping the critical dark period." Sativas are bulit for competition and they need to grow tall and finish when they see competition which is all over in the jungle. The season doesn't end for them on the equator, there's just a lot of competition. Rudi's are built for speed because they have little competition and short seasons. So the two main factors affecting florigen production are (1) competition and (2) season. My theory is that multiple alleles are helping to control the florigen production. Finishing is not always a good thing for a plant, too, as in the case for the jungle sativa because it must be able to poke its cola above its neighbors to attract pollinators. This is why you see 14-20 week landraces from the equator, and they stretch... and they grow like monsters.

Since I tossed my "theory" around here I'll try to distinguish the "auto trait" theory from the others. I don't know, for one.... anything about autos particularly. I think that these little buggers have a major controlling florigen producing hormone. Perhaps they have a way of keeping phytochromes from being broken down. I'm just not willing to go there. They seem to be able to ignore the "satety stops" put in place by the longer season sativas. That's all I gots so far.

 

[cres]

drewbot while you ponder.. all equatorial MJ is day neutral.

 

[harvestreaper]

intersting thread ,i recently bred a thaipan haze <auto> to a wonder haze <photo> out of 7 seeds germinated 3 fully autod under 24 hour light ,1 autod outdoor normally and 3 are showing to be photos,

 

[drewbot]

drewbot while you ponder.. all equatorial MJ is day neutral.

Yeah I don't really think so. If you throw landrace equatorial in soilless and keep bumping up the dark cycle to 30h it will flower. Did this test a couple of times. I think it's day neutral outside.. yes. The strawberry papers shed a lot of light on the flowering hormones. The daylength on these guys are varied from like 4 hours to 72 hours. I don't have any references at my fingertips. I'd like to see evidence that the autoflowering "gene" is controlled by a single allele pair.

 

[sielm]

Interesting! I got my test plant (fem auto) to develop (theoretically male) pollen sacks. What I wanted to know is whether that pollen, when it pollinates another auto fem plant, would produce fem auto seeds. I will have to wait, because I have no way to know if those sacks are viable.

And if the plant finally produces pollen, from what I've read I assume the resulting seed offspring would also yield auto fem seeds... but I have no idea about if that trait is controlled by 1 or more alleles...

 

[realcarlos]

Interesting! I got my test plant (fem auto) to develop (theoretically male) pollen sacks. What I wanted to know is whether that pollen, when it pollinates another auto fem plant, would produce fem auto seeds. I will have to wait, because I have no way to know if those sacks are viable.

And if the plant finally produces pollen, from what I've read I assume the resulting seed offspring would also yield auto fem seeds... but I have no idea about if that trait is controlled by 1 or more alleles...

Hey Sielm, yes if you were to pollinate another female with female pollen it would give you feminized seeds. How long did you spray the plants before pollen sacks appeared?

 

[sielm]

I only sprayed 1 plant. When the night cycle started, I sprayed that plant and kept her aside so no CS would touch the other plants. I think I sprayed for almost 3 full weeks, once or twice daily. The plant used is of an unknown strain (Assorted Auto pack from Buddha seeds), and is now developing tiny male sacks on each budsite. That plant is like 70 days old already, but looks like he/she can go for a while yet... There are female hairs on some budsites too, so if I'm lucky I could end with selfed seeds and several interesting crosses. I also have 1 Fast Bud, 2 Sweet Skunk, and 1 Sweet Cheese starting to flower, so they could also be pollinated and get seeds. I just hope they are all autos! (being feminized or not is not such an issue, but I'm pretty sure they should be feminized as well).

My fingers are crossed... I want seeds!!!

 

[sielm]

Hey all, I have some new pics of the CS treated plant:



I'm not really sure of those formations. Are they pollen sacks or actual seed pods? They really look like seeds. They are on almost all budsites, although a couple of the top budsites look completely female (I had to prune the main cola, which had the 3 biggest and most ripe budsites). In any case I'm hoping for pollen to be released.

If I get some crosses, they are supposed to be F1 seeds and have hybrid vigor, am I wrong here?

I'll keep this updated

Best regards!