Calling out bad Autoflower genetics/actors

[olbobcat]

Pfizer just invested $6.7 BILLION into weed this week. Which is bad in a million ways but probably good for opening up federal regulations

https://www.nj.com/marijuana/2021/12/pfizer-enters-the-medical-cannabis-market-in-67b-cash-deal.html

Full legalization has got me scared. I have a feeling things might be worse where it has been legalized.

 

[barley get nuggs]

Let me start by acknowledging that I realize this could turn into a shitshow, so I have no problem having this thread closed if needed, but I can't think of a better place to post this very serious question/issue. Perhaps it's been raised before. It's certainly not new news.

So a few days ago, as Darkhorse Genetics and Night Owl spin up their Dark Owl collabs, DHG made a post about "fake autoflower breeders" on IG, which was quickly moderated into nothingness, within an hour. In that post, he said there are essentially two types of autoflower breeder/seller right now: 1. The banks using a white label or shortcut seedstock and calling it whatever... Auto Gelato, Auto Runtz, Auto Bruce Banner #3 (his point of contention, obviously), etc. and 2. Small breeders showing their work and making craft-quantity runs of true auto genetics.

I'd recently purchased a couple seed packs I was less than 100% sure on, specifically FastBuds' Auto Chemdawg (red flag in the spelling, of course) and Barney's Runtz. I asked DHG/Jason in a DM if he thought I got took, to which he replied "Yeah - don't get too upset about it but yeah".

So, here's my question: what are the collective thoughts here on less-than-100%-verified auto genetics? I know small breeders like Mephisto, Night Owl, Mando, Brother Mendel Selections, etc show or describe their breeding efforts to F4 for fems, but what about the others? Is it time to start calling out breeders (and by extension seed banks) selling fake or subpar autos, or do we continue to let new growers get ripped off and let autoflowers' reputation continue to struggle? To be honest, I'm pretty salty to have bought possibly not-real auto genetics from a very lauded seed bank, who also sells quality auto genetics.

I for one intend to at some point show my work and run this Auto Chemdawg right next to a CDLC or ideally Chemdogging, to show the phenotypical differences between those two autos, at least. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this, though. As legalization spreads and noobs roll in here and other spaces just like we did, this problem will continue to grow and the scammers will continue to profit. Just my thoughts this morning.

Anyone care to disagree? Am I missing something obvious here?

I love this

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

I changed my expectation of what a seed will grow a long time ago. I just want every little girl to grow into the best cannabis plant I can nurture and her genetics can muster. I am rarely disappointed. I have been amazed. I just grew some FB testers 2108, 2109, and 2110. The have not disclosed what the lineage is but I would happily grow any of them again. I am dabbing some 2108 as I type

 

[AJrexxx]

,

It's been said before in this thread. ANY autoflower is simply an expression of that breeders take on a the photo strain. Once you breed/introduce the ruderalis genes into the photo, you've altered the gene pool. It cannot be the same as the original; close but not the same. I think we are saying the same thing. It's not the true strain, but if its close, and we like it, and it autoflowers, we are go to go. Peeps grow it & smoke it-if you like it.
If not, move on.

Now, where I take exception, is when I buy seeds that after 6-8 weeks still have not gone into flower. And I get responses like "oh change the light schedule to 12/12, I don't see what the big deal is...." If I have to change the light schedule to try & get an AUTOFLOWER to flower, than it's not a fucking autoflower, AND I WAS MISLEAD! Rant fucking over.

I definitely agree with that. If it does not auto its bad breeding and that is an issue. Because it does not look like another breeders visually and some douche breeder on IG said its fake that is another issue all together.

 

[CannabisMingus]

Because it does not look like another breeders visually and some douche breeder on IG said its fake that is another issue all together.

 

[CannabisMingus]

IMHO, the issue of the breeder ethics arises more with those (like me) who grow for personal consumption/meds in a prohibition state with little available grow space. When you are growing 4-8+ plants at a time and a particular plant doesn't meet expectations, it's one thing. If you grow 1-2 plants at a time, it's another as you have lost the time and production. That's why breeder and cultivar selection is so important for the home grower with limited space. When you get jipped by a breeder, it has a substantial impact on your accessibility to meds. For some, breeder ethics has real-world heath impact.

 

[AJrexxx]

Full legalization has got me scared. I have a feeling things might be worse where it has been legalized.

I am with you on that and I am going to put my tin hat on for a minute.

I am really worried. My professional life is private equity/finance and I can tell you there is more money than most people can fathom (think hundreds of billions) sitting on the sidelines waiting on lobbyist and legislation to be done.

What worries me is these guys do not move until they have an advantage or are on the verge of it. I think generationally years from now great weed will be few and far between and most people will be smoking bland very homogenous weed. Similar with what RJ Reynolds and Camel did with tobacco. The worst part is most of it will not be done with legislation. They just need to get around having to do the dispensary route and use their supply chain that is already in hundreds of thousands of locations. Dispensaries will almost all disappear (not that I am typically a fan anyway), in my opinion owning a dispensary will be like having old beanie babies...yeah they were worth something at one time but now...

They will create an image and spend billions upon billions on marketing and our grandkids will all be smoking dull mass marketed but very consistent products. They wont know any different and good cannabis will be a cottage industry at best. I just see them doing something like tobacco where it is aged so long it becomes uniform and that is how every cigarette tastes the same.

Okay tin hat off.....none of that will ever happen.

 

[CannabisMingus]

good cannabis will be a cottage industry at best.

Word. I saw the commercialization on display at the Emerald Cup Harvest Ball. That's why AFN is so important.

 

[Rasterman]

,

It's been said before in this thread. ANY autoflower is simply an expression of that breeders take on a the photo strain. Once you breed/introduce the ruderalis genes into the photo, you've altered the gene pool. It cannot be the same as the original; close but not the same. I think we are saying the same thing. It's not the true strain, but if its close, and we like it, and it autoflowers, we are go to go. Peeps grow it & smoke it-if you like it.
If not, move on.

Now, where I take exception, is when I buy seeds that after 6-8 weeks still have not gone into flower. And I get responses like "oh change the light schedule to 12/12, I don't see what the big deal is...." If I have to change the light schedule to try & get an AUTOFLOWER to flower, than it's not a fucking autoflower, AND I WAS MISLEAD! Rant fucking over.

Good point. I've only grown ~20 autos. I've seen stunting that wrecked some big plans, and now I have somehow reached a place where stunting seems like a normal thing to plan for - like male seedlings. But it isn't. The truth of the matter is that autos still have problems. But I love growing them anyway, and try to always have at least one growing.

I've never run into an auto that needed a light change. I'm hoping to avoid that by sourcing good seeds, but don't know whether or not that actually helps.

 

[Rasterman]

I am with you on that and I am going to put my tin hat on for a minute.

I am really worried. My professional life is private equity/finance and I can tell you there is more money than most people can fathom (think hundreds of billions) sitting on the sidelines waiting on lobbyist and legislation to be done.

What worries me is these guys do not move until they have an advantage or are on the verge of it. I think generationally years from now great weed will be few and far between and most people will be smoking bland very homogenous weed. Similar with what RJ Reynolds and Camel did with tobacco. The worst part is most of it will not be done with legislation. They just need to get around having to do the dispensary route and use their supply chain that is already in hundreds of thousands of locations. Dispensaries will almost all disappear (not that I am typically a fan anyway), in my opinion owning a dispensary will be like having old beanie babies...yeah they were worth something at one time but now...

They will create an image and spend billions upon billions on marketing and our grandkids will all be smoking dull mass marketed but very consistent products. They wont know any different and good cannabis will be a cottage industry at best. I just see them doing something like tobacco where it is aged so long it becomes uniform and that is how every cigarette tastes the same.

Okay tin hat off.....none of that will ever happen.

I don't think it will take craft cannabis 80 years to take off like it took craft beer. Craft cannabis is here now, and we saw what happened with craft beer. I think that homogeneous product will be out there for 95% of smokers. Under the guise of 3 brands, but it will all be basically the same crap. But I think the craft industry will thrive as well. Unless big business is able to use legislation to crush its competition which is also likely.

I think I just posted a redundant message.