Calling out bad Autoflower genetics/actors

[Son of Hobbes]

Not sure about other states, but you don't have to disclose whether flower in a shop was an autoflower or not here in Colorado. The commercial grow I'm currently at somehow found themselves with a few rows of autoflowers on their last harvest. My deceased neighbor used to grow for dispensaries in California, and he said they were FULL of autoflower buds (whether the dispensaries knew that or not.)

White Widow photoperiod and White Widow autoflower are just "White Widow" on the shelf. Few consumers would probably be able to tell, unless they are connoisseurs (IMO.)

@FullDuplex has his genetics in multiple commercial farms in the PNW.

 

[Weedkiller]

IMHO, the issue of the breeder ethics arises more with those (like me) who grow for personal consumption/meds in a prohibition state with little available grow space. When you are growing 4-8+ plants at a time and a particular plant doesn't meet expectations, it's one thing. If you grow 1-2 plants at a time, it's another as you have lost the time and production. That's why breeder and cultivar selection is so important for the home grower with limited space. When you get jipped by a breeder, it has a substantial impact on your accessibility to meds. For some, breeder ethics has real-world heath impact.

Exactly I can barely afford to pull this off and bad genetics won't do. I research every seed purchase for specific effects to treat my anxiety/ptsd because I need this medication daily. I've been running autos for a year now and I'm totally satisfied..mephisto, mosca,magic,binary selections and 420seedguy have all served me well as far as autoflower goes. Auto allow me to veg and flower in the same area. I wouldn't call it perpetual but I'm able to harvest every 4 to 6 weeks and keep a variety..same weed everyday doesn't work for me. I depend on threads like this to make my seed purchase decisions..

 

[olbobcat]

Not sure about other states, but you don't have to disclose whether flower in a shop was an autoflower or not here in Colorado. The commercial grow I'm currently at somehow found themselves with a few rows of autoflowers on their last harvest. My deceased neighbor used to grow for dispensaries in California, and he said they were FULL of autoflower buds (whether the dispensaries knew that or not.)

White Widow photoperiod and White Widow autoflower are just "White Widow" on the shelf. Few consumers would probably be able to tell, unless they are connoisseurs (IMO.)

@FullDuplex has his genetics in multiple commercial farms in the PNW.

I have seen some things about commercial grows. One was a breeder that was strictly breeding autos for commercial outdoor production.
The other was someone that owned one of the vegetable seed companies in Oregon. He had a whole thing about growing Autos between the photos outdoor so they could get two harvests. Once again they were commercial only.

 

[Fire Nation]

You know what makes me laugh? How people carry on about clone only strains. There is a whole mystique built up around this trend that borders on religion! Well it's bullshit! Yes, some grower my have found a great plant out of a group of plants he's grown, and yes, it's probably great bud. But it is NOT the only one, and it's NOT the best there is just because it is good. In fact, I just had this discussion about Granddaddy Purple. I friend has a "certified" clone. I have Ken Estes seeds. Do you believe I can't find a plant equal to the clone only plant by growing out regular seed? I plan to breed my GDP for a next generation of seed. Then I'll have hundreds to choose from. And the seed is from the same source as the clone, Ken Estes. I'm willing to bet I can find a special mother the is the equal of that clone, and possibly better.

And the whole concept of patenting genetics of any kind is a steaming pile of you know what! That make as much sense as patenting each roll of the dice......... breeders are not creating anything new, they're playing pick-up-sticks and seeing what spills out. BUT....... I recently read that Bayer
( Monsanto in disguise.. ) is buying up cannabis patents...

Hey boss if you do make some GDP seeds lemme get some lol

 

[Tom Bombadil]

You know what makes me laugh? How people carry on about clone only strains. There is a whole mystique built up around this trend that borders on religion! Well it's bullshit! Yes, some grower my have found a great plant out of a group of plants he's grown, and yes, it's probably great bud. But it is NOT the only one, and it's NOT the best there is just because it is good. In fact, I just had this discussion about Granddaddy Purple. I friend has a "certified" clone. I have Ken Estes seeds. Do you believe I can't find a plant equal to the clone only plant by growing out regular seed? I plan to breed my GDP for a next generation of seed. Then I'll have hundreds to choose from. And the seed is from the same source as the clone, Ken Estes. I'm willing to bet I can find a special mother the is the equal of that clone, and possibly better.

And the whole concept of patenting genetics of any kind is a steaming pile of you know what! That make as much sense as patenting each roll of the dice......... breeders are not creating anything new, they're playing pick-up-sticks and seeing what spills out. BUT....... I recently read that Bayer
( Monsanto in disguise.. ) is buying up cannabis patents...

The whole clone only thing is boomer hippie voodoo mysticism and little else.

 

[Les @HLG]

You may be right, or not. Where I live craft wineries are popular. I was surprised to find 3 within less than 30 minutes of me. And they are a trend that seems to have not only taken hold but thrive. It's a niche market, but so is craft canna. I agree, it will never be big, but those who truly appreciate good canna for more than getting high, there will be a market. Unless...... greed over prices it!

Craft beer is a fad and it has lost most of its luster if I had a dollar for every micro brewery that opened and closed even before the pandemic I would be rich. The reason craft cannabis will slowly decay is pricing and nostalgia....your grandchildren will not have the experience or excitement of chasing that cultivar looking for that lost taste from your youth you have yet to find(because it was black market and supply chain was a major issue). They will have grown up with being able to buy a ten pack at the gas station.

The same concept was used to destroy US manufacturing and it was way stronger than craft cannabis is now or ever will be. Think about this...go into a Walmart and look at the people struggling to make ends meat (i know its sad but necessary for this example) around the 3rd or 4th day of the month. They will be upset if they cant get some random item for for less than a dollar or they will be at another store and say I can get this at the dollar store. They are now pigeon holed into a purchasing decision based on circumstance not quality.

What they fail to realize is they really need a better job and more income not cheaper mass produced garbage. As a collective group America through away good jobs for cheap shit. $$$$ is always the lowest common denominator. Is Walmart evil? No, not really they gave people what they wanted. As a society we did not look at the ramifications or cost to our want. An overwhelming majority of people are sheep that is why marketing and celebrity promotions are so widely used.

Prime example posted by @CannabisMingus on his visit to the Emerald Cup Harvest Ball.

I do believe craft cannabis will survive but it will be a few location per major city not 100s because the money will be pulled to the cheaper mass marketed option.

I could go on and on but I do not want to hijack this thread more than I already have and no one wants to hear the ramblings of a crazy old man...to much.

 

[Les @HLG]

I see a lot of " if it's an auto, it's not the real thing!" So what? Prove to me the auto is not the equal to or even superior to the original. This goes back to what I posted about clone only. The mythos has people believing that ONLY that clone is worthy of being allowed to grow. This is also what has led to the whole fem seeds bulshit. What do fem only strains get you? nothing.... your ability to choose a phenotype that YOU may find superior is lost, or more truthfully, taken away from you. And that's the big rub here to me. Just because Joe Blow breeder thinks his selection is the cat's ass, doesn't mean it is. But because canna culture is rife with bullshit, people have been convinced that certain breeders are canna gods. It makes me want to puke! I grow Brandywine tomatoes from seed I save. I got my starter seed from Seed Saver seedbank. I grow some damn fine Brandywines. But you don't see gardeners growing cuttings of other people's plants and paying a stupid premium for them!
Then there's the fact that clones can express genes other than those of the original clone. Cannabis is a highly adaptive plant and unless you mimic the exact environment that the original grew in, you've no guarantee that your clone will grow the same.
At least with regular seed, to have not only the option to pheno hunt, you are provided a selection. And let's face it, whithin a known population, the bud will be good fro all plants, or it wouldn't be out there to grow. I was given some weed once to make RSO with, for someone with cancer. It wasn't very good. I saved a few seeds because it may have been just poorly grown ( VERY poorly grown... ) but nope, it was about as good as Mexican brick weed.... seeds went into the worm bin! And this is what happens to truly bad weed. There is very little of that going around anymore. Yes, you may find some that you consider hohum, but it may light someone else's fire. I rate my weed by if I'd grow it again. I've got about 10 out maybe 150 strains I've grown that I have grown twice 6-8 that I've grown 3 times or more. Is it the best pot on the market because I love it? No! Because there is no "best"! It is however, damned good weed and many agree with me. People beg me for my Blue Dragon. And I had one person who said it didn't get him high and thought it was crap. Who's right? Everyone! People talk about and immediately forget about how terpene profiles affect the SMOKER. This is why the government uses info like this against people who believe in herbal medicine, and we can't ise the word, medicine with anything herbal. because just like clone only canna, their mindset says it must be an exact copy of the of the ingredients every time and we all know that's not how herbs work.

And in a properly bred auto, the amount of Ruderalis remaining in an auto should be minimal and has little to no bearing on the final outcome. The whole idea of breeding is to filter out the traits you don't want and enhance those you do. That said, VERY few do it correctly unfortunately.
I'ce seen negative comments on here about FastBuds. You can believe whatever you want, but if you have doubts, ask the company directly about the source of their genetics. I've found them to be pretty straight forward when asked questions. And I've grown 4 of their strains and found them to be very good. I especially love their Blue Dream and Mexican Airlines. And I really don't care where they got their mother plants, what I car about is the quality of the buds their plants produce. Anyone who wants to spend $5000 - $10,000 for that "special clone" have at it! A fool and his money are soon parted! Give me some good, regular seed and I guarantee I'll find a plant worthy of breeding/ cloning for my use.
It's sad there are so few auto regs.............

And the autoflower gene is not exclusive to Ruderalis, some and possibly many, southeast Asian strains have an auto gene. For whatever reason, it is harder to isolate in those landrace/wild strains. Imagine using a Cambodian wild strain for it's autoflower genes! It could be done, but no one has the patience to do so and or find that plant with that gene. Ruderalis is merely convenient.

 

[Frank the Dank]

And the autoflower gene is not exclusive to Ruderalis, some and possibly many, southeast Asian strains have an auto gene. For whatever reason, it is harder to isolate in those landrace/wild strains. Imagine using a Cambodian wild strain for it's autoflower genes! It could be done, but no one has the patience to do so and or find that plant with that gene. Ruderalis is merely convenient.

Bald Monkey has a strain called Thai Passion that uses a landrace Thai that auto flowers as the source…

 

[CannabisMingus]

And in a properly bred auto, the amount of Ruderalis remaining in an auto should be minimal and has little to no bearing on the final outcome.

Bingo.

 

[mdabber]

I agree with alot of what you said @Les @HLG but don't you think there are some clones only you could never find again like are 1 in a 1000? Like the strain GMO. I mean even the dispensary here gets 30percent on it. But I think you are right we don't want to lose the genetic diversity. I think having the clone only is about trying a strain everyone has had. It also gives you a chance as a grower to show if you can do it better than everyone else. Because it's comparing the same thing. I know about generic drift with clones you were talking about that. But yah all those clone only were seed at one point so plant more seeds.