Calling out bad Autoflower genetics/actors

[AJrexxx]

I know that there was some things about some vendors that hasn't sit with me to oright. But I'm too demented to remember. I dont think about breeders, there was bunch of other vendors in here , from lights to nutes. I think that In my 6y of beeing AFN memeber , I always was productive and positive member, and trolling was last thing I would do in here.. But I would like to see some more objective stands on all Vendors or other things presented here. because i really cant think almost one exsample where I found some objective info about products presented here, like with realy pro and cons.

After Al this is , were, and will be always my native canna forum..CoZ I'm AFN 4 life

You should read some of the reviews and journals I have done. As Hobbs spoke to earlier we are told to be respectful and give our opinions. I have tested genetics and products here that I did not rate favorably many times (bigger names as well). Sometimes though I am indifferent on genetics because I am not a huge fan of the flavor, not to say it is bad it might be someone elses cup of tea so I leave it at that.

 

[AJrexxx]

Let me start by acknowledging that I realize this could turn into a shitshow, so I have no problem having this thread closed if needed, but I can't think of a better place to post this very serious question/issue. Perhaps it's been raised before. It's certainly not new news.

So a few days ago, as Darkhorse Genetics and Night Owl spin up their Dark Owl collabs, DHG made a post about "fake autoflower breeders" on IG, which was quickly moderated into nothingness, within an hour. In that post, he said there are essentially two types of autoflower breeder/seller right now: 1. The banks using a white label or shortcut seedstock and calling it whatever... Auto Gelato, Auto Runtz, Auto Bruce Banner #3 (his point of contention, obviously), etc. and 2. Small breeders showing their work and making craft-quantity runs of true auto genetics.

I'd recently purchased a couple seed packs I was less than 100% sure on, specifically FastBuds' Auto Chemdawg (red flag in the spelling, of course) and Barney's Runtz. I asked DHG/Jason in a DM if he thought I got took, to which he replied "Yeah - don't get too upset about it but yeah".

So, here's my question: what are the collective thoughts here on less-than-100%-verified auto genetics? I know small breeders like Mephisto, Night Owl, Mando, Brother Mendel Selections, etc show or describe their breeding efforts to F4 for fems, but what about the others? Is it time to start calling out breeders (and by extension seed banks) selling fake or subpar autos, or do we continue to let new growers get ripped off and let autoflowers' reputation continue to struggle? To be honest, I'm pretty salty to have bought possibly not-real auto genetics from a very lauded seed bank, who also sells quality auto genetics.

I for one intend to at some point show my work and run this Auto Chemdawg right next to a CDLC or ideally Chemdogging, to show the phenotypical differences between those two autos, at least. I'd love to hear others' thoughts on this, though. As legalization spreads and noobs roll in here and other spaces just like we did, this problem will continue to grow and the scammers will continue to profit. Just my thoughts this morning.

Anyone care to disagree? Am I missing something obvious here?

If you grow it and it autos and you smoke it that makes it real correct? In the grand scheme of things chasing some of these older strains needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Do I believe most reputable breeders start with the photos they claim and cross them in. Yes more or less. Without out the original starting material and a lab to do testing how do you know your getting a strain that started with bag seed that some teenage kid if I remember the story correctly got at a grateful dead concert?

Don't get me wrong I like stories, but they are that just stories that have conflicts or disputes with most of them. On top of that in the 90s ripping off names was big business. I know for a fact in southern Indiana there was a very large dealer and whatever name was hot in High Times is what he was selling every month. I also know for a fact it was one strain he grew that his family had been growing since the 70s but people did not know different at the time. Some of these breeders can be running something they think is one thing but is not.

Checking phenos can be wonky as well with all the poly hybrids and breeder selection. The other day someone posted in live stoners he thought his plant wasn't an NL because it did not look like another one. I actually was involved with a large selection going through northern lights quite a while back and Jesus you want to see real phenotype variation pop 100 seeds at a time ( we stopped counting phenos at one point). We ended up with an open pollination then went through a 1000 seeds total for selection. That strain was all over the place and that was 25 years ago before 800 different breeders played with it. Add in breeders backcrossing to stabilize and adding ruderalis and such you end up with a genetic milkshake at best. .

I guess what I am trying to say in my very very hazy state is that your are buying a breeders interpitation of that strain not the original. If you want a guaranteed original you need to get it from the original breeder. I think bashing a breeder because they are not running what you think is the original is about as easy to prove as it for them to prove it is real.

If you want to bash them because there genetics hermie or they are not potent that is another story all together.

I do not like when I see things like durban poison auto either. Because I know that is not a pure durban poison, but if it is close and I like it does that matter?

I also think listening to breeders bash other breeders is a waste of time. They fight and accuse each other like school children to stay relevant. Most of them do not. There model is about brand loyalty and marketing. Not how good a plant is. They need you to buy their creation from them because its "real" not because it is better (that's also how they pay their bills). These days most large ones use name recognition to sell products. Honestly how many cookie, gelato, GG4, crosses do we need? Seedbanks and breeders have been ripping each other off since the creation of time. Sensie Seeds mastered ripping off breeders if you believe the stories which actually sound very probable.

I guess what I am trying to say is if a breeder is bad they usually wont last long. The market will take care of that you can only sell junk for so long. Claiming someone's stuff isn't "real" is a problem.

Sorry for the crazy long post I need to quit getting this fucked up and perusing the forums.

 

[Waira]

 

[olbobcat]

First off, excellent post. I don't care if they call it Monkey Poop, as long as I like the effects, it grows good and has the potency and frost.
As far as Fastbuds, I like their gear no it may not be the same as the original, but it usually grows great and plentiful and the effects you are looking for are there. I had grown there Strawberry Banana, now I had never smoked it before in my life. I can barely smell anything anymore but if I open the bag it smells like strawberry and banana starburst. Smokes nice and has frost on top of frost. Is it like the original, I don't care? I saw a piece on TV where it talked to these generational farmers in Humboldt. The son of the lady who had done Fruity Pebbles still grows it today. So I guess if you are not getting it from him you are not getting the real thing?

 

[Les @HLG]

You know what makes me laugh? How people carry on about clone only strains. There is a whole mystique built up around this trend that borders on religion! Well it's bullshit! Yes, some grower my have found a great plant out of a group of plants he's grown, and yes, it's probably great bud. But it is NOT the only one, and it's NOT the best there is just because it is good. In fact, I just had this discussion about Granddaddy Purple. I friend has a "certified" clone. I have Ken Estes seeds. Do you believe I can't find a plant equal to the clone only plant by growing out regular seed? I plan to breed my GDP for a next generation of seed. Then I'll have hundreds to choose from. And the seed is from the same source as the clone, Ken Estes. I'm willing to bet I can find a special mother the is the equal of that clone, and possibly better.

And the whole concept of patenting genetics of any kind is a steaming pile of you know what! That make as much sense as patenting each roll of the dice......... breeders are not creating anything new, they're playing pick-up-sticks and seeing what spills out. BUT....... I recently read that Bayer
( Monsanto in disguise.. ) is buying up cannabis patents...

 

[olbobcat]

Monsanto had developed a rapeseed plant that can handle being sprayed with roundup and other herbicides without dying. It has escaped and is growing everywhere. You can't kill it with herbicides. It is taken over the land and made life tougher for the bees as well. Well, they decided in their wisdom that they would not prosecute people who had these growing on their land , but did not get the seed from them. So I am guessing that if you get a bag seed from one of these patented plants, you best not plant it or the Monsanto police will be after you.

 

[Bill.de.Cat]

You know what makes me laugh? How people carry on about clone only strains. There is a whole mystique built up around this trend that borders on religion! Well it's bullshit! Yes, some grower my have found a great plant out of a group of plants he's grown, and yes, it's probably great bud. But it is NOT the only one, and it's NOT the best there is just because it is good. In fact, I just had this discussion about Granddaddy Purple. I friend has a "certified" clone. I have Ken Estes seeds. Do you believe I can't find a plant equal to the clone only plant by growing out regular seed? I plan to breed my GDP for a next generation of seed. Then I'll have hundreds to choose from. And the seed is from the same source as the clone, Ken Estes. I'm willing to bet I can find a special mother the is the equal of that clone, and possibly better.

And the whole concept of patenting genetics of any kind is a steaming pile of you know what! That make as much sense as patenting each roll of the dice......... breeders are not creating anything new, they're playing pick-up-sticks and seeing what spills out. BUT....... I recently read that Bayer
( Monsanto in disguise.. ) is buying up cannabis patents...

Though i agree in concept, I have to disagree in practice. Living in Florida and actually having had access to Gainesville Green clones...that bitch would not seed, at all, no matter who tried to do it. It was a clone only strain, though there are others that are close, or even better...it still won't be that strain.
And I'm still hunting it though but so far nothing has given me the same hash body high with a clear mind buzz that ups my energy. But I still love all the different varieties I'm finding on my journey.

 

[Bill.de.Cat]

Monsanto had developed a rapeseed plant that can handle being sprayed with roundup and other herbicides without dying. It has escaped and is growing everywhere. You can't kill it with herbicides. It is taken over the land and made life tougher for the bees as well. Well, they decided in their wisdom that they would not prosecute people who had these growing on their land , but did not get the seed from them. So I am guessing that if you get a bag seed from one of these patented plants, you best not plant it or the Monsanto police will be after you.

And don't think big M won't. Monsanto plan is to get in half the fields of a county, then sue the other half next year cause their pollen drifted and contaminated the half they wern't in.

 

[Brownthumbs]

I do not like when I see things like durban poison auto either. Because I know that is not a pure durban poison, but if it is close and I like it does that matter?

,

It's been said before in this thread. ANY autoflower is simply an expression of that breeders take on a the photo strain. Once you breed/introduce the ruderalis genes into the photo, you've altered the gene pool. It cannot be the same as the original; close but not the same. I think we are saying the same thing. It's not the true strain, but if its close, and we like it, and it autoflowers, we are go to go. Peeps grow it & smoke it-if you like it.
If not, move on.

Now, where I take exception, is when I buy seeds that after 6-8 weeks still have not gone into flower. And I get responses like "oh change the light schedule to 12/12, I don't see what the big deal is...." If I have to change the light schedule to try & get an AUTOFLOWER to flower, than it's not a fucking autoflower, AND I WAS MISLEAD! Rant fucking over.

 

[JP1]

Pfizer just invested $6.7 BILLION into weed this week. Which is bad in a million ways but probably good for opening up federal regulations

https://www.nj.com/marijuana/2021/12/pfizer-enters-the-medical-cannabis-market-in-67b-cash-deal.html