Breeding F5?

[elcoloan]

I have an old grower friend, you might of heard of Astral Flower Genetics, well Juan is from Mexico, and he told me it is common knowledge from the old timers there, that adding a capful of alcohol to your water makes your seeds mostly female.

oooo i'm trying that next time with a bunch of reg photo seeds... have you tried it?

 

[PollenSax]

I completely agree.
The way I was taught, once you reach f4, and you have been working up the same traits, you are stable enough to say you have the first generation of stable IBL, and as long as keep working torward the same type, and keep breeding the siblings together, it just gets stronger as an IBL.
Take 2 IBL's that are totally different, say Indica x Sativa, and make a shit ton of seeds, cause those are the special Hybrid seeds that can't easily be reproduced.
At least thats the simple version in my head. I still get all confused sometimes, LOL

Right now I'm studying about De-hybridizing.
Basically making seeds from fine hybrid strains, and picking winning babies from those, and creating my own strains from the already superior genetics found in the plants from the big guys.
They have a lot of time, man power, and money in those strains, and I don't mind using it in my breeding experiments

 

[PollenSax]

oooo i'm trying that next time with a bunch of reg photo seeds... have you tried it?

No, I haven't. But I grow males on purpose, or fem seed. Let us know how it goes!

 

[Olderfart]

I completely agree.
The way I was taught, once you reach f4, and you have been working up the same traits, you are stable enough to say you have the first generation of a stable IBL, and as long as you keep working torward the same type, and keep breeding the siblings together, it just gets stronger as an IBL.
Take 2 stable IBL's that are totally different from each other, say Indica x Sativa, and make a shit ton of seeds, cause those are the special F1 Hybrid seeds that all look alike, hopefully show hybrid vigor, and can't easily be reproduced by anybody but you.
At least thats the simple version in my head. I still get all confused sometimes, LOL

Mix two otherwise stable but genetically dissimilar strains, and hybrid vigor will likely not be your only result. Established breeding programs take such crosses through multiple successive generations in order to stabilize the characteristics they are seeking. This is necessary to weed out unwanted characteristics before the new lineage breeds true for the characteristics being sought. Absent such selection over several generations, the resulting seed crop will be to varying degrees a potential dog's breakfast of phenotypes. Good fun for some growers perhaps, but for others, not so much.

 

[PollenSax]

Mix two otherwise stable but genetically dissimilar strains, and hybrid vigor will likely not be your only result. Established breeding programs take such crosses through multiple successive generations in order to stabilize the characteristics they are seeking. This is necessary to weed out unwanted characteristics before the new lineage breeds true for the characteristics being sought. Absent such selection over several generations, the resulting seed crop will be to varying degrees a potential dog's breakfast of phenotypes. Good fun for some growers perhaps, but for others, not so much.

Yes you have to test each batch of hybrid seeds, especially with autos, since you can't keep them in clone, you can't be sure they will make good hybrids every time, but a simple Hybrid is only from 1 cross of 2 stable strains. The F1 cross. If you work it past F1, it's not a hybrid anymore, but new mixed "strains", because the recessive traits don't start showing up until F2. F1 of a cross shows only the dominant traits.
The main thing is that the parents of the F1's must be stable before you cross.
But you won't know what the hybrid will be like, until you test it. The whole batch should be very similar to the tested ones tho.
Edit:
Whoops. I'm sorry. I been reading too many vegetable breeding books, LOL. Apparently with weed seeds, since there's males and females on different plants (Dioecious), then only 50% of the offspring will look the same, and Cannabis breeders have to choose from those, keep selecting, and inbreeding the offspring until F4 at least.
That's really been messing with my head!

 

[Blu_tri]

Yeap

 

[NorthernLights_420]

Plants have been the dominant species on this planet for millions of years. They have and will continue to survive inbreeding. That’s why there are so many species of them. When a population gets too congested and isn’t subjected to new dna, it creates it own new dna by mutating into something new. This ability is carried in all forms of life and cannot be removed by breeding.
A plant may not physically show “bad traits”, but rest assured that these traits are already hidden in its dna. Inbreeding brings these “hidden bad traits back to the front of the gene pool. Breeders unknowingly recreate the stressful situation that causes plants (life) to mutate when they choose to inbreed their stock.
Inbreeding causes the plants to go into survival mode and begin to mutate in order to create something capable of surviving what it deems a “catastrophic event”. The plant or, any life, (dna/protein) thinks that life around it has succumbed to something because of the lack of new dna being introduced when breeding.
To circumvent this die off the plants, and any all other life, will begins to “mutate”. Mutate = create random dna/proteins. This is done in an attempt to create new life forms hoping to create a dna that’s capable of surviving the “catastrophe”. This planet has be subjected to many catastrophic events and plants have survived them all. Doing so the plant has a stock pile of hidden dna, that it unleashes when the situation cause for change.
As breeders, people think they are doing the right thing by only breeding “stable lines”. What they are doing is actually recreating the situation that initially caused the plant to become unstable
As you say, to have Multiple phenos”.
Rule 1 of breeding, “ know what you are dealing with!”
Rule 2 is that you don’t know what you are dealing with, so stop pretending to know.
Rule 3. It is what it is. It is what it always will be, and what it always was.
There is nothing that “man” can do to change this. Not even clones. He just isn’t quite there yet.
Before you argue gmo fruits and veggies, think about how crappy they taste versus not altered fruits and vegetables. View attachment 1273370

I'm not very smart. You lost me there

 

[NorthernLights_420]

Yes you have to test each batch of hybrid seeds, especially with autos, since you can't keep them in clone, you can't be sure they will make good hybrids every time, but a simple Hybrid is only from 1 cross of 2 stable strains. The F1 cross. If you work it past F1, it's not a hybrid anymore, but new mixed "strains", because the recessive traits don't start showing up until F2. F1 of a cross shows only the dominant traits.
The main thing is that the parents of the F1's must be stable before you cross.
But you won't know what the hybrid will be like, until you test it. The whole batch should be very similar to the tested ones tho.

I'm just gonna clone some autos. Reverse some and chuck pollen on the others. Then grow what I create and keep what I like and give away what I dont like to friends. The start of my breeding project. If any of the f1s come out with one good pheno and plant to work with from there I'll work with that line to be my basis to breed from. But first its just chucking pollen til I find something that is extraordinary to witk with and breed past f1.

 

[RYCBAR]

I'm not very smart. You lost me there

Hes saying know enough to know that you don't know enough.

 

[PollenSax]

I'm just gonna clone some autos. Reverse some and chuck pollen on the others. Then grow what I create and keep what I like and give away what I dont like to friends. The start of my breeding project. If any of the f1s come out with one good pheno and plant to work with from there I'll work with that line to be my basis to breed from. But first its just chucking pollen til I find something that is extraordinary to witk with and breed past f1.

Heck yeah. Like my old boss always told me K.I.S.S. :smoking:
It doesn't have to be complicated.