Humboldt Seed Organization Autotron does HSO UK Cheese - Hydro, COB

[Autotron]

@Autotron

Has your pH stabilized? You are probably going to need to up your cal-mag and Si if not.​

How's the light distance now? And if memory serves, you should be about 20 days in today? That's

at the stage where you should ​

up your nute strength as well, but first I'd like to see another pic of how she's doing. Any new pic's to share?

Hey bro, thanks for checking in! Yeah, my pH finally stabilized and I haven't had to adjust it in the past 2-3 days. I definitely plan on upping the CalMag and Si in the next solution. I'm currently at 18 inches away with the COB. Yeah, I'm at 20 days old today and it seems like growth is speeding up now and then plant is looking more robust and stronger with thicker stems and leaves. I'm hoping it goes a bit longer in veg so that I can get it nice and bushy once the stretch kicks in. The roots are developing like crazy and one actually sprouted across the top of the rocks. I've been doing a bit of LST, laying the plant flat across the surface of the net top with screw in brackets to allow the secondary branches to grow and bush out. I can see the fourth set of nodes just coming in. I'll get some pics up here in the journal tomorrow for you to take a look at.

 

[Olde School Player]

@Autotron will watch for the pic. I transplanted my Blue Cheese on 7/10; tomorrow will be seven days & I leaf pruned her once. She's under a 250W HID metal halide at 15" and looking very happy. So I'm one to two days away from upping my nute strength as well. Soon as I do the math I'll post new strengths for you.

 

[Autotron]

@Autotron will watch for the pic. I transplanted my Blue Cheese on 7/10; tomorrow will be seven days & I leaf pruned her once. She's under a 250W HID metal halide at 15" and looking very happy. So I'm one to two days away from upping my nute strength as well. Soon as I do the math I'll post new strengths for you.

Nice! You got a thread for it yet? Looking forward to watching how yours progresses and learning a few tricks. Here's some pics from today of mine:

 

[Autotron]

I'm thinking about removing those two big fan leaves at the top to open up the nodes below to more light. Good idea or bad idea? @Olde School Player @HSO-Mark

 

[Olde School Player]

@Autotron she's looking great, much improved from earlier days. I'm happy to see the increased light intensity and nute strength is doing its job. Her trunk is fattened, color is great and secondary branching has started popping out at each node. That's the sign of a happy girl.
For future reference, I would have waited a bit longer to start your LST, but seems no harm for you. I just like to get a well established main trunk to bend / lower to same level as secondaries, then start training the secondary branches to equalize the canopy height. Lets see what your girl does though, think she will be fine.
Leaf pruning, yes. I like to start low, 1st or 2nd node, and remove one leaf from each node, move up one node / opposing side of plant, and remove another. But the top bud and previous node to top, I leave those & don't prune until later. And as the plant continues to add nodes, if any of the remaining lower fan leaves are blocking the secondary branches, I go back and remove those. But I want to give her a bit of time to recover and set new leaves before I do that.

Haven't started my grow thread yet, I'm kicking around some ideas of how I want to do that. But for now, here's my girl:

She's at six days from transplant, 5" tall, and the 7th node / top has opened today. My light is at 14" and I'm out of length on the cooltube ducts so I can't get any lower. That's OK, she's growing to the light so within another day or two she will be 12" away. Then I can start raising the light as she grows.
Within the next day or so, soon as my nute level drops a little, I'm upping her nute strength by about 35%.
I have a fairly well defined formula for the nute progressions, but it is based upon my 12 gallon reservoir. What size is your DWC container, and do you replace all nutes when you change a formula, or mix up to a higher strength? (I mix up, because each change is about a week apart & at this stage with a 12 gallon reservoir I don't worry about nute imbalance. But based upon what size your DWC is, I can give you a quick recommendation on next level of nutes for your girl.

@Dinafem-Mark here's your Blue Cheese, six days from transplant. Looks like she's gonna be a bushy girl, loving what I see so far!!! Grow thread to follow.
Thanks for the thread space rent, Autotron, gotta get that thread started!!!

 

[Autotron]

@Autotron she's looking great, much improved from earlier days. I'm happy to see the increased light intensity and nute strength is doing its job. Her trunk is fattened, color is great and secondary branching has started popping out at each node. That's the sign of a happy girl.
For future reference, I would have waited a bit longer to start your LST, but seems no harm for you. I just like to get a well established main trunk to bend / lower to same level as secondaries, then start training the secondary branches to equalize the canopy height. Lets see what your girl does though, think she will be fine.
Leaf pruning, yes. I like to start low, 1st or 2nd node, and remove one leaf from each node, move up one node / opposing side of plant, and remove another. But the top bud and previous node to top, I leave those & don't prune until later. And as the plant continues to add nodes, if any of the remaining lower fan leaves are blocking the secondary branches, I go back and remove those. But I want to give her a bit of time to recover and set new leaves before I do that.

Haven't started my grow thread yet, I'm kicking around some ideas of how I want to do that. But for now, here's my girl:

She's at six days from transplant, 5" tall, and the 7th node / top has opened today. My light is at 14" and I'm out of length on the cooltube ducts so I can't get any lower. That's OK, she's growing to the light so within another day or two she will be 12" away. Then I can start raising the light as she grows.
Within the next day or so, soon as my nute level drops a little, I'm upping her nute strength by about 35%.
I have a fairly well defined formula for the nute progressions, but it is based upon my 12 gallon reservoir. What size is your DWC container, and do you replace all nutes when you change a formula, or mix up to a higher strength? (I mix up, because each change is about a week apart & at this stage with a 12 gallon reservoir I don't worry about nute imbalance. But based upon what size your DWC is, I can give you a quick recommendation on next level of nutes for your girl.

@Dinafem-Mark here's your Blue Cheese, six days from transplant. Looks like she's gonna be a bushy girl, loving what I see so far!!! Grow thread to follow.
Thanks for the thread space rent, Autotron, gotta get that thread started!!!

Hey @Olde School Player,
I do think the LST may have slowed her down for a day or two. She is looking better and less frail now and I hope I can get some good size out of her before flower kicks in. I'm continuing to drop the light down an inch or so each day. It's currently at ~17 inches. Just don't want to fry her. I feel like a noobie grower, learning how to use this new light. The hydro portion has been fairly easy so far, aside from managing pH. I'll take care of that next res fill with the added CalMag and Si to buffer the water more. Frankly, I am finding hydro to be more fun than soil so far. Much more control and ease of measuring metrics like pH and strength(ppm's). It's more fun for someone like myself who enjoys this as a hobby. As far as pruning, I feel like it's usually those fan leafs on the top few nodes that block secondary branches the most. They probably do power growth at those upper nodes to some extent though. I may just pull one of them off since that's the only one that's blocking. No need for symmetry here.

Your girl looks gorgeous man! A lot of nodes and long secondary branches. How old is she in total days since she sprouted?

My DWC container is a converted 5-gallon bucket. I did 3 gallons worth of solution for my last mix and kind of figure that's enough for that stage and can top off as needed until the next results change. I choose to replace the entire solution in the bucket every 7-10 days as needed. I like to keep it fresh and precise so I know what's in there and at what ratio and how it's affecting the plant. I'm planning on mixing up a new solution within the next day or two and giving it a day or two to settle at a steady pH before replacing the current solution in the bucket with it.

 

[Autotron]

Just brewed up another batch of solution in preparation for swapping out the current one.
I made three gallons of it and here's what I added. I'm giving it a chance to let it sit for a day or two in my measuring bucket with an air stone to equalize in pH before I put it in the reservoir.

All measurements are per gallon:

Armor Si: 2ml
CalMag: 4ml

Micro: 3ml
Grow: 4ml
Bloom: 1ml

RapidStart: 2.5ml
Floralicious: 1ml
Diamond Nectar: 3ml
FloraBlend: 5ml
Hydroguard: 2ml

@Olde School Player , what do you think about this brew for where she's at? I followed the ratio for macronutrients from the GH site, but lowered it. I was a little more generous with the FloraBlend and Diamond Nectar this time around.

 

[Olde School Player]

@Autotron I don't count the days from time the seed germinates until she is transplanted. Maybe I should but I've always considered that "Free time" like the time a clone takes to root. Old habits die hard But she poked her head out of the Rapid rooter on 6/28 & went into my Folgers coffee can bubbler, so add twelve days to her six days in that pic. I find for whatever reason that her roots and trunk develop soooo much quicker in the bubble cloner than any other way. This was on transplant day:

Totally agree with the precision under hydro Vs dirt. It really does allow more control.
As to your current nute formula, I pretty much ignore the vegetative growth formulas recommended by GenHydro. For one they are tailored more toward photoperiod plants than auto's; and for another reason are way too strong. I follow the ratios during bloom and transition more closely, with mostly tweaks to strength. For where you are now, with a three gallon soup mix, I would recommend (total for 3 gal., not per gallon - ) 10mL Micro, 10mL Grow, 5mL bloom, 3mL FloraliciousPlus, 10mL Diamond Nectar, 10mL FloraBlend.
Your mix is pretty close, and the differences in Grow & Micro should balance each other out; just add a bit more Bloom & you should be good. The extra potassium in the bloom formula is what you're after, it's most valuable at this stage to stimulate early growth & provide the plant structure and strength as it grows. It also helps with uptake of all other nutrients as well. So you did 3mL of Bloom total; I would add two more mL to get you where you need to be with a new three gallon mix.
My only question is CalMag and ArmorSi. I am at the same dosage as you said above, 4mL and 2mL respectively, but I am using RO. You might want to experiment with where3mL CalMag and 1.5mL Si bring you with your water. You want to target about 350ppm.
But maybe I'm being too picky on that, plant tolerance to CalMag & Si is pretty broad, you may be just fine where you are. I traditionally just don't raise my CalMag levels to where you are today, until I start transition. If we get to the point where we start comparing ppm's instead of mix formulas it might make a difference to the outcome.

I think your intent to replace nutrients every week is a smart one with a three gallon container. My reservoir is 12 gallons so I have more headroom if the plant wants more of something and less of something else. So replacement for you is a good plan.
If she starts showing preflowers in the next week you should be ready for a transition formula; if no stay with this mix until she does. I'll be sure to get more notes to you before then.

 

[Autotron]

@Autotron I don't count the days from time the seed germinates until she is transplanted. Maybe I should but I've always considered that "Free time" like the time a clone takes to root. Old habits die hard But she poked her head out of the Rapid rooter on 6/28 & went into my Folgers coffee can bubbler, so add twelve days to her six days in that pic. I find for whatever reason that her roots and trunk develop soooo much quicker in the bubble cloner than any other way. This was on transplant day:

Totally agree with the precision under hydro Vs dirt. It really does allow more control.
As to your current nute formula, I pretty much ignore the vegetative growth formulas recommended by GenHydro. For one they are tailored more toward photoperiod plants than auto's; and for another reason are way too strong. I follow the ratios during bloom and transition more closely, with mostly tweaks to strength. For where you are now, with a three gallon soup mix, I would recommend (total for 3 gal., not per gallon - ) 10mL Micro, 10mL Grow, 5mL bloom, 3mL FloraliciousPlus, 10mL Diamond Nectar, 10mL FloraBlend.
Your mix is pretty close, and the differences in Grow & Micro should balance each other out; just add a bit more Bloom & you should be good. The extra potassium in the bloom formula is what you're after, it's most valuable at this stage to stimulate early growth & provide the plant structure and strength as it grows. It also helps with uptake of all other nutrients as well. So you did 3mL of Bloom total; I would add two more mL to get you where you need to be with a new three gallon mix.
My only question is CalMag and ArmorSi. I am at the same dosage as you said above, 4mL and 2mL respectively, but I am using RO. You might want to experiment with where3mL CalMag and 1.5mL Si bring you with your water. You want to target about 350ppm.
But maybe I'm being too picky on that, plant tolerance to CalMag & Si is pretty broad, you may be just fine where you are. I traditionally just don't raise my CalMag levels to where you are today, until I start transition. If we get to the point where we start comparing ppm's instead of mix formulas it might make a difference to the outcome.

I think your intent to replace nutrients every week is a smart one with a three gallon container. My reservoir is 12 gallons so I have more headroom if the plant wants more of something and less of something else. So replacement for you is a good plan.
If she starts showing preflowers in the next week you should be ready for a transition formula; if no stay with this mix until she does. I'll be sure to get more notes to you before then.

Thanks for sharing your insight! I'll take your advice and add a few ml to the solution before I add it tonight. She's thickened up quite a bit and I feel like growth is accelerating. I'd like to see some more nodes forming before she kicks into flower though, so I hope she has enough to get her there. I've lowered my COB down to about 16 inches so far and she seems to be taking it OK.

Here's a few more pics from today. If you notice, I'm seeing what looks something like nutrient burn on the tips of some of the older fans. It's not a nice and neat burn straight from the tip like I have seen with classic nutrient burn. Perhaps a mild CalMag deficiency? I've just seen this recently, since the pH has stabilized at a rock solid 6. Hopefully the new solution will give the plant what it needs and keep it from spreading.

 

[Olde School Player]

@Autotron that's not leaf burn on the tips of your two lowest leaves, it's the very normal beginnings of a nitrogen deficiency.

If that were actually an N toxicity symptom, the color of your leaves would be a much darker, past-emerald-green hue.​

Not to be worried & not meaning you need to raise your nitrogen levels - N is one of the most mobile elements in a plant, meaning it can be pulled from one area of the plant to another area where it is needed more. Those bottom fan leaves will practically always show this. As the upper part of the plant begins to grow more aggressively, the new growth will pull N, not just from your nute mix, but also from other areas of the plant that are no longer needed for the plant's survival and prosperity. Those oldest / lowest leaves in nature would become shaded by upper growth & no longer contribute to the plant's overall health.

I agree more nodes are needed / wanted, that will contribute to yield, but you still have plenty of time. And most normal plant stretch doesn't occur until after the plant transitions from vegetative growth to bloom. At That point you will change your nutes to a transition formula to encourage more growth, AND you will start raising your light to encourage it. Instead of allowing your plant to "grow to the light", you will keep raising it as the plant grows to encourage it to "chase the light". At least that's the way it's supposed to work!!! I haven't figured it all out yet but some LED lighting characteristics seem to discourage stretch rather than encourage. Is it intensity? Or spectrum? Or both? To be determined. That's what my "Effects of Light Intensity on Plant Growth" thread is chasing. Stay tuned!​