Lighting Recipes & Usage

[Death The Cultivator]

I'm fairly acquainted with the knowledge and function of PPFD, PAR, and DLI but not so much how it relates to intra canopy lighting.

At the high end for cannabis 1100umols(DLI of 45) is the threshold before diminishing returns and the necessity for c02 injection. 1500umols(DLI of 65) being the upper limit for c02 injection however what I'm not familiar with are requirements or limits for intra Canopy Lighting.

I'll withhold some research I've found in tomatoes for now but genuinely curious. I've found some other factors to consider are plant size and methodology as well. Larger plants benefit from higher PPFD compared to methods like SOG, high density planting, so I would assume the lighting needs intra canopy would be different.

So how do we implement intra canopy lighting for different needs? Strip lighting? Mono colors? Full spectrum? Do we maintain the same McCree curve from top to bottom?

Another thing is how might intra canopy lighting affect plant morphology? Will cannabis continue it's usual stretch when dosed adequately from above and below? Will shade avoidance responses be negated? Ton of questions lol. I have more.

How might this affect common crop steering methods like defoliation, LST, pruning lower branches, etc? Would side lighting be as effective at this point? Could less effective canopy lighting be enhanced by intra canopy lighting to require less energy overall? Would far red be beneficial or simply supplementing End of Day treatments and UVA/B be effective?

Furthermore I believe that this could be positive for quality and by extension quantity but there are the upfront cost for extra lighting. Also, might there be increased water/fertilizer usage and to a deeper extent how might this apply to autoflowers? Some growers already say they grow autos fine at standard flowering protocols so might this prove beneficial to electricity cost if adequate canopy and intra canopy lighting are sufficient?

Vertical growing with HID lights in colosseum style grows was very popular and provided it's own benefits. With LED diodes becoming cheaper and more efficient heat with some popular choices not even requiring heatsinks when built with efficiency in mind. So with lower lighting demands for intra canopy this could be a viable solution for home growers and small scale commercial growers looking to maximize their ROI while still remaining small, boosting quality/yield, and possibly reducing electrical needs.

Tagging some people @pop22 @Growtogrow @Fitzy

 

[Fitzy]

It's definitely interesting and u bring up some valid questions . now I have read a few things on it and it makes sense the only thing I wonder is spectrum and wattage especially with some of the more light sensitive plants. I could see this working with a 5x5 and bigger but I think it would be hard to do with 3x3 or smaller.

 

[Growtogrow]

I'm fairly acquainted with the knowledge and function of PPFD, PAR, and DLI but not so much how it relates to intra canopy lighting.

At the high end for cannabis 1100umols(DLI of 45) is the threshold before diminishing returns and the necessity for c02 injection. 1500umols(DLI of 65) being the upper limit for c02 injection however what I'm not familiar with are requirements or limits for intra Canopy Lighting.

I'll withhold some research I've found in tomatoes for now but genuinely curious. I've found some other factors to consider are plant size and methodology as well. Larger plants benefit from higher PPFD compared to methods like SOG, high density planting, so I would assume the lighting needs intra canopy would be different.

So how do we implement intra canopy lighting for different needs? Strip lighting? Mono colors? Full spectrum? Do we maintain the same McCree curve from top to bottom?

Another thing is how might intra canopy lighting affect plant morphology? Will cannabis continue it's usual stretch when dosed adequately from above and below? Will shade avoidance responses be negated? Ton of questions lol. I have more.

How might this affect common crop steering methods like defoliation, LST, pruning lower branches, etc? Would side lighting be as effective at this point? Could less effective canopy lighting be enhanced by intra canopy lighting to require less energy overall? Would far red be beneficial or simply supplementing End of Day treatments and UVA/B be effective?

Furthermore I believe that this could be positive for quality and by extension quantity but there are the upfront cost for extra lighting. Also, might there be increased water/fertilizer usage and to a deeper extent how might this apply to autoflowers? Some growers already say they grow autos fine at standard flowering protocols so might this prove beneficial to electricity cost if adequate canopy and intra canopy lighting are sufficient?

Vertical growing with HID lights in colosseum style grows was very popular and provided it's own benefits. With LED diodes becoming cheaper and more efficient heat with some popular choices not even requiring heatsinks when built with efficiency in mind. So with lower lighting demands for intra canopy this could be a viable solution for home growers and small scale commercial growers looking to maximize their ROI while still remaining small, boosting quality/yield, and possibly reducing electrical needs.

Tagging some people @pop22 @Growtogrow @Fitzy

Hey @FTF_damien50
Well you bring up a lot of good questions man..I'll tell you that.

Good excellent questions.

So some questions can be answered some questions I'm not so sure about yet?
But
I know one thing I wouldn't use is No HID lights...their highly inefficient....Not cost effective.

I would only use the 315CMH/LEC or High Quality Quantum LEDs... As these are the most cost-effective. Or most bang for your buck main artificial lighting that there is for growing.

Your inner canopy ? Is a great ? And has often been a protocol of mine. I love it and in my opinion full spectrum cool White LED strip lights or tape lighting would be awesome for that aspect.
As I've used T5 fluorescents and small one foot by one foot. Full Spectrum LED lights underneath my canopy pointed up from the floor up into the under canopy.
I also use mylar, mirrors, or white floors to help reflect light back up into the underneath canopy from the main lights. I've been doing this for years.

So We know that UV Blue. Green and Far Red are all needed for great photosynthesis in your cannabis plant. Dr Bruce Bugbee.
We also know that the cannabis plant can take very very high intensity light and it does not need a gradual up tic. It can be turned on and turned off at lightspeed and the plant likes it that way.
These are known facts as published by Dr. Bruce Bugbee from Utah State University in most recent months.

With The quantum photon detectors from Apogee Industries. The photon detector can tell you what kind of light penetration you're getting from your artificial lights or sun if you're outside growing.
Also what is known is what spectrum Photon penetration into the cannabis leaf and cause photosynthesis. Research Dr Bruce bugbee's recent Publications on YouTube or Google or Instagram I believe as well.. You can see the type of penetration that each light spectrum Photon penetrates into the leaf.
So what is known is that full spectrum cool White LED lighting is some of the best for growing this plant. And then you can add more to it on either end depending on what you r research comes up with.
My research comes up with UVB and A is needed for photosynthesis but it doesn't create a lot of it...But on the far red side there's much more vigorous growth when adding more far-red high quality chip LEDs. And again this is known studied and published by dr. Bruce bugbee in recent months... So with all this information that we know now.
We also know that when you give the cannabis plant this modified super lighting...we also have to up everything. The 9 Cardinal rules of growing cannabis . you have the up the wind flow across the plant you have to up the CO2 you have to up the water intake you have to up the nutrients intake everything. 9 Cardinal rules has to to be Amplified or a loss in one of them could cause a deficiency.
It's like a thoroughbred racehorse or a NASCAR dialed in to a certain track to be the optimum race car for that track. Everything has to be dialed in. Once you got that dialed in the cannabis plant will fly off the hook.
So by adding the cool white LED strips for lighting to the inter cannabis canopy is excellent idea. And by adding LST and deflorization processes to increase more lighting into the inner canopy and Bud sites can only mean a good thing.

That's my take. So far.

My diy hybrid 315cmh with far red led chip light bars.

Look up on YouTube Far red the forgotton photon.
Apogee Industries dr. Bruce Bugbee

 

[Death The Cultivator]

It's definitely interesting and u bring up some valid questions . now I have read a few things on it and it makes sense the only thing I wonder is spectrum and wattage especially with some of the more light sensitive plants. I could see this working with a 5x5 and bigger but I think it would be hard to do with 3x3 or smaller.

Well there are a few companies like Fluence making them already for research purposes. I'm seeing an average of 400-600umols but there's a ton that I think goes into consideration.

Let's say we're running 1100umols above the canopy already, now we need to measure and factor penetration, so I'm under the impression not much power would be needed from below.

For a 3x3 I think it could work but I totally thought what you did especially thinking over Inverse Square Law. I think a Scrogger might see benefit AND possibly even be able to go against the grain in general pruning and defoliation.

Hey @FTF_damien50
Well you bring up a lot of good questions man..I'll tell you that.

Good excellent questions.

So some questions can be answered some questions I'm not so sure about yet?
But
I know one thing I wouldn't use is No HID lights...their highly inefficient....Not cost effective.

I would only use the 315CMH/LEC or High Quality Quantum LEDs... As these are the most cost-effective. Or most bang for your buck main artificial lighting that there is for growing.

Your inner canopy ? Is a great ? And has often been a protocol of mine. I love it and in my opinion full spectrum cool White LED strip lights or tape lighting would be awesome for that aspect.
As I've used T5 fluorescents and small one foot by one foot. Full Spectrum LED lights underneath my canopy pointed up from the floor up into the under canopy.
I also use mylar, mirrors, or white floors to help reflect light back up into the underneath canopy from the main lights. I've been doing this for years.

So We know that UV Blue. Green and Far Red are all needed for great photosynthesis in your cannabis plant. Dr Bruce Bugbee.
We also know that the cannabis plant can take very very high intensity light and it does not need a gradual up tic. It can be turned on and turned off at lightspeed and the plant likes it that way.
These are known facts as published by Dr. Bruce Bugbee from Utah State University in most recent months.

With The quantum photon detectors from Apogee Industries. The photon detector can tell you what kind of light penetration you're getting from your artificial lights or sun if you're outside growing.
Also what is known is what spectrum Photon penetration into the cannabis leaf and cause photosynthesis. Research Dr Bruce bugbee's recent Publications on YouTube or Google or Instagram I believe as well.. You can see the type of penetration that each light spectrum Photon penetrates into the leaf.
So what is known is that full spectrum cool White LED lighting is some of the best for growing this plant. And then you can add more to it on either end depending on what you r research comes up with.
My research comes up with UVB and A is needed for photosynthesis but it doesn't create a lot of it...But on the far red side there's much more vigorous growth when adding more far-red high quality chip LEDs. And again this is known studied and published by dr. Bruce bugbee in recent months... So with all this information that we know now.
We also know that when you give the cannabis plant this modified super lighting...we also have to up everything. The 9 Cardinal rules of growing cannabis . you have the up the wind flow across the plant you have to up the CO2 you have to up the water intake you have to up the nutrients intake everything. 9 Cardinal rules has to to be Amplified or a loss in one of them could cause a deficiency.
It's like a thoroughbred racehorse or a NASCAR dialed in to a certain track to be the optimum race car for that track. Everything has to be dialed in. Once you got that dialed in the cannabis plant will fly off the hook.

So by adding the cool white LED strips for lighting to the inter cannabis canopy is excellent idea. And by adding LST and deflorization processes to increase more lighting into the inner canopy and Bud sites can only mean a good thing.

That's my take. So far.

My diy hybrid 315cmh with far red led chip light bars.

Look up on YouTube Far red forgotton photon.
Apogee Industries dr. Bruce BugbeeView attachment 1209192View attachment 1209193View attachment 1209194

I've bolded some parts cause I'm on mobile so I can address them. I knew you'd come with the info lol.

On your first point about the beneficial spectrums, I agree but it raises a question that I had asked earlier but didn't elaborate on as I was waiting on someone to mention it. Most LEDs of quality full spectrum light are typically running a CRI or Color Rendering Index of 80, sometimes 90, but there some that run close to 100 - not as efficient but closer to the sun. I believe this is part of why CMH lighting is still more expensive than conventional HID but also why many still stuck with them. They grow beautiful plants, in side by side cobs provided a higher yield because of greater uniformity and penetration but CMH is no slouch, again I think because their CRI is over 90.

There's been discussions on light forums I visit and a theory/concern that arises pertains to the need for far red, outside of End of Day treatments, when running higher CRI with full spectrum light. I've seen it said in quite a few places that 660nm becomes unnecessary and even detrimental with 90+ CRI. Bridgelux Vestas and EBG3 have enough red in them, according to some lighting professionals, that supplementing red isn't necessary for more than EOD. There are some other manufacturers but that is what I remember at the moment lol.

On your second point I highlighted I agree, I am not yet disagreeing with modern science but a little skepticism keeps me healthy. Here's a study on UV in tomato plants

UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Request PDF

Request PDF | On Apr 18, 2020, Yating Zhang and others published UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Now back to the increased need for everything. Assuming we are adequately lighting the top of the canopy and providing intra canopy, do you think atmospheric c02 would still be sufficient while maintaining max DLI around 45 and a PPFD of 1100. The sun gets around 2000 PPFD but DLI changes with the weather. I'm assuming increased photosynthesis would occur but again to what extent before we need c02 injection or could money be saved by running more moderate PPFD with sufficient supplementation of intra canopy? I don't know myself

In the last bolded section you're talking about steering methods and as mentioned to Fitzy, I so believe it would be highly beneficial to Scroggers and those necessitating growing large plants due to legal issues, preference, etc. I personally hate large plants for my indoor grows and would much more prefer a SOG but I think intra canopy lighting could address issues with both. Specifically the need for pruning and the perceived need for or benefit of defoliation, I disagree with it but there is a whole thread elsewhere lol.

How much labor might be saved by setting the scrog, adding intra canopy lighting and increasing yield by reducing stress from pruning and by default having more bud sites from not being pruned. But then is this something we would do from veg to flower or simply initiate in flower?

Overhead supplemental far-red light stimulates tomato growth under intra-canopy lighting with LEDs

Far-red (FR) light regulates phytochrome-mediated morphological and physiological plant responses. This study aims to investigate how greenhouse tomat…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Fitzy]

Well there are a few companies like Fluence making them already for research purposes. I'm seeing an average of 400-600umols but there's a ton that I think goes into consideration.

Let's say we're running 1100umols above the canopy already, now we need to measure and factor penetration, so I'm under the impression not much power would be needed from below.

For a 3x3 I think it could work but I totally thought what you did especially thinking over Inverse Square Law. I think a Scrogger might see benefit AND possibly even be able to go against the grain in general pruning and defoliation.



I've bolded some parts cause I'm on mobile so I can address them. I knew you'd come with the info lol.

On your first point about the beneficial spectrums, I agree but it raises a question that I had asked earlier but didn't elaborate on as I was waiting on someone to mention it. Most LEDs of quality full spectrum light are typically running a CRI or Color Rendering Index of 80, sometimes 90, but there some that run close to 100 - not as efficient but closer to the sun. I believe this is part of why CMH lighting is still more expensive than conventional HID but also why many still stuck with them. They grow beautiful plants, in side by side cobs provided a higher yield because of greater uniformity and penetration but CMH is no slouch, again I think because their CRI is over 90.

There's been discussions on light forums I visit and a theory/concern that arises pertains to the need for far red, outside of End of Day treatments, when running higher CRI with full spectrum light. I've seen it said in quite a few places that 660nm becomes unnecessary and even detrimental with 90+ CRI. Bridgelux Vestas and EBG3 have enough red in them, according to some lighting professionals, that supplementing red isn't necessary for more than EOD. There are some other manufacturers but that is what I remember at the moment lol.

On your second point I highlighted I agree, I am not yet disagreeing with modern science but a little skepticism keeps me healthy. Here's a study on UV in tomato plants

UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Request PDF

Request PDF | On Apr 18, 2020, Yating Zhang and others published UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Now back to the increased need for everything. Assuming we are adequately lighting the top of the canopy and providing intra canopy, do you think atmospheric c02 would still be sufficient while maintaining max DLI around 45 and a PPFD of 1100. The sun gets around 2000 PPFD but DLI changes with the weather. I'm assuming increased photosynthesis would occur but again to what extent before we need c02 injection or could money be saved by running more moderate PPFD with sufficient supplementation of intra canopy? I don't know myself

In the last bolded section you're talking about steering methods and as mentioned to Fitzy, I so believe it would be highly beneficial to Scroggers and those necessitating growing large plants due to legal issues, preference, etc. I personally hate large plants for my indoor grows and would much more prefer a SOG but I think intra canopy lighting could address issues with both. Specifically the need for pruning and the perceived need for or benefit of defoliation, I disagree with it but there is a whole thread elsewhere lol.

How much labor might be saved by setting the scrog, adding intra canopy lighting and increasing yield by reducing stress from pruning and by default having more bud sites from not being pruned. But then is this something we would do from veg to flower or simply initiate in flower?

Overhead supplemental far-red light stimulates tomato growth under intra-canopy lighting with LEDs

Far-red (FR) light regulates phytochrome-mediated morphological and physiological plant responses. This study aims to investigate how greenhouse tomat…

www.sciencedirect.com

I think only flower would benefit mostly bc the normal spectrum they offer is geared towards red now I don't need that for veg so I wouldn't run it. Now I do run 7.2w of deep and far red in a 2x4 area roughly which I tried running this

and I ran them @ 2 sets of different drivers setups so first was 7.5w each @700ma then I ran 3.25w @ 350ma and the smaller bottom inside buds Werner dense just as small as normal just not as airy so I've quit using them this way is this wat you mean the space I did this with was a 20in deep(front to back) 40in wide and 6ft tall so 3 lights about 3rd way up from pot so the middle and bottom get the light with my normal canopy fixture 18in from canopy.

now I have no clue how much light ppfd wise ect that put out but I ran the above setup x2 in the 20 x 40 so I don't no but the tech behind all this stuff is very interesting to me for sure. Sorry not up on all the terms I've been slacking for 7 months or more lol

 

[Growtogrow]

Well there are a few companies like Fluence making them already for research purposes. I'm seeing an average of 400-600umols but there's a ton that I think goes into consideration.

Let's say we're running 1100umols above the canopy already, now we need to measure and factor penetration, so I'm under the impression not much power would be needed from below.

For a 3x3 I think it could work but I totally thought what you did especially thinking over Inverse Square Law. I think a Scrogger might see benefit AND possibly even be able to go against the grain in general pruning and defoliation.



I've bolded some parts cause I'm on mobile so I can address them. I knew you'd come with the info lol.

On your first point about the beneficial spectrums, I agree but it raises a question that I had asked earlier but didn't elaborate on as I was waiting on someone to mention it. Most LEDs of quality full spectrum light are typically running a CRI or Color Rendering Index of 80, sometimes 90, but there some that run close to 100 - not as efficient but closer to the sun. I believe this is part of why CMH lighting is still more expensive than conventional HID but also why many still stuck with them. They grow beautiful plants, in side by side cobs provided a higher yield because of greater uniformity and penetration but CMH is no slouch, again I think because their CRI is over 90.

There's been discussions on light forums I visit and a theory/concern that arises pertains to the need for far red, outside of End of Day treatments, when running higher CRI with full spectrum light. I've seen it said in quite a few places that 660nm becomes unnecessary and even detrimental with 90+ CRI. Bridgelux Vestas and EBG3 have enough red in them, according to some lighting professionals, that supplementing red isn't necessary for more than EOD. There are some other manufacturers but that is what I remember at the moment lol.

On your second point I highlighted I agree, I am not yet disagreeing with modern science but a little skepticism keeps me healthy. Here's a study on UV in tomato plants

UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Request PDF

Request PDF | On Apr 18, 2020, Yating Zhang and others published UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Now back to the increased need for everything. Assuming we are adequately lighting the top of the canopy and providing intra canopy, do you think atmospheric c02 would still be sufficient while maintaining max DLI around 45 and a PPFD of 1100. The sun gets around 2000 PPFD but DLI changes with the weather. I'm assuming increased photosynthesis would occur but again to what extent before we need c02 injection or could money be saved by running more moderate PPFD with sufficient supplementation of intra canopy? I don't know myself

In the last bolded section you're talking about steering methods and as mentioned to Fitzy, I so believe it would be highly beneficial to Scroggers and those necessitating growing large plants due to legal issues, preference, etc. I personally hate large plants for my indoor grows and would much more prefer a SOG but I think intra canopy lighting could address issues with both. Specifically the need for pruning and the perceived need for or benefit of defoliation, I disagree with it but there is a whole thread elsewhere lol.

How much labor might be saved by setting the scrog, adding intra canopy lighting and increasing yield by reducing stress from pruning and by default having more bud sites from not being pruned. But then is this something we would do from veg to flower or simply initiate in flower?

Overhead supplemental far-red light stimulates tomato growth under intra-canopy lighting with LEDs

Far-red (FR) light regulates phytochrome-mediated morphological and physiological plant responses. This study aims to investigate how greenhouse tomat…

www.sciencedirect.com

I'm sorry

Well there are a few companies like Fluence making them already for research purposes. I'm seeing an average of 400-600umols but there's a ton that I think goes into consideration.

Let's say we're running 1100umols above the canopy already, now we need to measure and factor penetration, so I'm under the impression not much power would be needed from below.

For a 3x3 I think it could work but I totally thought what you did especially thinking over Inverse Square Law. I think a Scrogger might see benefit AND possibly even be able to go against the grain in general pruning and defoliation.



I've bolded some parts cause I'm on mobile so I can address them. I knew you'd come with the info lol.

On your first point about the beneficial spectrums, I agree but it raises a question that I had asked earlier but didn't elaborate on as I was waiting on someone to mention it. Most LEDs of quality full spectrum light are typically running a CRI or Color Rendering Index of 80, sometimes 90, but there some that run close to 100 - not as efficient but closer to the sun. I believe this is part of why CMH lighting is still more expensive than conventional HID but also why many still stuck with them. They grow beautiful plants, in side by side cobs provided a higher yield because of greater uniformity and penetration but CMH is no slouch, again I think because their CRI is over 90.

There's been discussions on light forums I visit and a theory/concern that arises pertains to the need for far red, outside of End of Day treatments, when running higher CRI with full spectrum light. I've seen it said in quite a few places that 660nm becomes unnecessary and even detrimental with 90+ CRI. Bridgelux Vestas and EBG3 have enough red in them, according to some lighting professionals, that supplementing red isn't necessary for more than EOD. There are some other manufacturers but that is what I remember at the moment lol.

On your second point I highlighted I agree, I am not yet disagreeing with modern science but a little skepticism keeps me healthy. Here's a study on UV in tomato plants

UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Request PDF

Request PDF | On Apr 18, 2020, Yating Zhang and others published UVA Radiation Promotes Tomato Growth through Morphological Adaptation Leading to Increased Light Interception | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Now back to the increased need for everything. Assuming we are adequately lighting the top of the canopy and providing intra canopy, do you think atmospheric c02 would still be sufficient while maintaining max DLI around 45 and a PPFD of 1100. The sun gets around 2000 PPFD but DLI changes with the weather. I'm assuming increased photosynthesis would occur but again to what extent before we need c02 injection or could money be saved by running more moderate PPFD with sufficient supplementation of intra canopy? I don't know myself

In the last bolded section you're talking about steering methods and as mentioned to Fitzy, I so believe it would be highly beneficial to Scroggers and those necessitating growing large plants due to legal issues, preference, etc. I personally hate large plants for my indoor grows and would much more prefer a SOG but I think intra canopy lighting could address issues with both. Specifically the need for pruning and the perceived need for or benefit of defoliation, I disagree with it but there is a whole thread elsewhere lol.

How much labor might be saved by setting the scrog, adding intra canopy lighting and increasing yield by reducing stress from pruning and by default having more bud sites from not being pruned. But then is this something we would do from veg to flower or simply initiate in flower?

Overhead supplemental far-red light stimulates tomato growth under intra-canopy lighting with LEDs

Far-red (FR) light regulates phytochrome-mediated morphological and physiological plant responses. This study aims to investigate how greenhouse tomat…

www.sciencedirect.com

I don't have a home computer either and only work from my 2015 LG stylo phone or smart tv.

The links you reference are on tomato growing.
That's irrelevant information to cannabis and hemp growing.
Thanks but
Sorry I'm not here to grow tomatoes.

All that information has no real bearing on cannabis or hemp growing. Also it's all old information..
Also many of the authors wer student of Dr Bruce Bugbee and some of them are doing cannabis test right now currently in real time.

So you have not studied yet the information I gave you months ago ? About dr. Bruce Bugbee and Utah State University and Apogee Industries and all the current and relative information and up to date testing on cannabis and hemp exclusively??

Thanks for inviting me.
I appreciate it..

 

[Death The Cultivator]

I think only flower would benefit mostly bc the normal spectrum they offer is geared towards red now I don't need that for veg so I wouldn't run it. Now I do run 7.2w of deep and far red in a 2x4 area roughly which I tried running this View attachment 1209279View attachment 1209280View attachment 1209281 and I ran them @ 2 sets of different drivers setups so first was 7.5w each @700ma then I ran 3.25w @ 350ma and the smaller bottom inside buds Werner dense just as small as normal just not as airy so I've quit using them this way is this wat you mean the space I did this with was a 20in deep(front to back) 40in wide and 6ft tall so 3 lights about 3rd way up from pot so the middle and bottom get the light with my normal canopy fixture 18in from canopy.View attachment 1209279View attachment 1209280View attachment 1209281 now I have no clue how much light ppfd wise ect that put out but I ran the above setup x2 in the 20 x 40 so I don't no but the tech behind all this stuff is very interesting to me for sure. Sorry not up on all the terms I've been slacking for 7 months or more lol

That was my thought towards supplementing in flower.

Were you pleased with the addition of red in your grows?

An Update on Plant Photobiology and Implications for Cannabis Production - PMC

This review presents recent developments in plant photobiology and lighting systems for horticultural crops, as well as potential applications for cannabis (Cannabis sativa and C. indica) plant production. The legal and commercial production of the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Fitzy]

That was my thought towards supplementing in flower.

Were you pleased with the addition of red in your grows?

An Update on Plant Photobiology and Implications for Cannabis Production - PMC

This review presents recent developments in plant photobiology and lighting systems for horticultural crops, as well as potential applications for cannabis (Cannabis sativa and C. indica) plant production. The legal and commercial production of the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's hard to tell really and I think it's bc temp and humidity are basically wat ever outside temp in Sumer and 70 low in winter and with humidity in the 90% summer and 15% in winter it's hard to tell one thing I've noticed with my strip lights I'm very impressed most autos can be kept short enuff that the lower inners are just as dense as side lighting so the whole canopy is the light fixture so no fall off its 100% same coverage across if u look at old Mars or hps/cmh the edge of ur 3x3 or 4x4 is 250 ppfd min difference so I think this made biggest difference the reds seemed better with photos here is a uva deep/far red bar this seemed to help the best overall but it's a bit of a learning curve height wise watts ect I think it promotes growth in hotter climate like in tropical areas now that's just a theory I don't have any cool toys for that stuff measurement wise ect

 

[Death The Cultivator]

It's hard to tell really and I think it's bc temp and humidity are basically wat ever outside temp in Sumer and 70 low in winter and with humidity in the 90% summer and 15% in winter it's hard to tell one thing I've noticed with my strip lights I'm very impressed most autos can be kept short enuff that the lower inners are just as dense as side lighting so the whole canopy is the light fixture so no fall off its 100% same coverage across if u look at old Mars or hps/cmh the edge of ur 3x3 or 4x4 is 250 ppfd min difference so I think this made biggest difference the reds seemed better with photos here is a uva deep/far red bar this seemed to help the best overall but it's a bit of a learning curve height wise watts ect I think it promotes growth in hotter climate like in tropical areas now that's just a theory I don't have any cool toys for that stuff measurement wise ectView attachment 1209397

I observed a significant improvement using strips with nearly uniform ppfd from edge to edge. My scrog with the EBG2 have me excellent colas that were consistent to nearly 18". I regret defoliation above the canopy but I've received consistent results with this particular diode with heat and efficiency being much appreciated.

I'm curious whether or not the EBG3 might be suitable for intra canopy lighting especially since it's running at 2.9umols. Heat is already non issue, strips are affordable and if we follow other companies examples of around 400umols below it could be worth the small investment. I don't think it would be beneficial in a SOG where PPFD *might* be sufficient with clones considering the smaller size.

A 4x4 with some 3000k EBG2s in 560mm, maybe 8, wired to a 120w or 185w might be enough to supplement. Another consideration are Bridgelux Vestas with a tunable white spectrum between 2700k to 5000k that could also serve as excellent supplementation though it would require two drivers for color tuning. The study I found on tomatoes showed improved growth and yield on tomatoes supplemented with far red at canopy level. With EoD treatments it could be possible to push out to 13ish hours of lights on but supposedly some diodes have enough red to make 660nm redundant and possibly even detrimental.

Not a whole lot of studies on intra canopy lighting considering it's still illegal at the federal level but plenty have been done on other species with consistently positive results. Though I think DIY is going to give the biggest bang for your buck to reach 1100umols at canopy and still afford to add 400 more intra canopy. I'd imagine having the strips face up might be the best.

That light bar is cool though. Where did you source UV for LED? I know AgroMax recommends a fair distance for their UV supplementation but I'm waiting for improved efficiency with LEDs that maybe the COVID issue will speed up development so we can get UVA/B. Otherwise we have to find a way to implement T5s .

 

[Fitzy]

I observed a significant improvement using strips with nearly uniform ppfd from edge to edge. My scrog with the EBG2 have me excellent colas that were consistent to nearly 18". I regret defoliation above the canopy but I've received consistent results with this particular diode with heat and efficiency being much appreciated.

I'm curious whether or not the EBG3 might be suitable for intra canopy lighting especially since it's running at 2.9umols. Heat is already non issue, strips are affordable and if we follow other companies examples of around 400umols below it could be worth the small investment. I don't think it would be beneficial in a SOG where PPFD *might* be sufficient with clones considering the smaller size.

A 4x4 with some 3000k EBG2s in 560mm, maybe 8, wired to a 120w or 185w might be enough to supplement. Another consideration are Bridgelux Vestas with a tunable white spectrum between 2700k to 5000k that could also serve as excellent supplementation though it would require two drivers for color tuning. The study I found on tomatoes showed improved growth and yield on tomatoes supplemented with far red at canopy level. With EoD treatments it could be possible to push out to 13ish hours of lights on but supposedly some diodes have enough red to make 660nm redundant and possibly even detrimental.

Not a whole lot of studies on intra canopy lighting considering it's still illegal at the federal level but plenty have been done on other species with consistently positive results. Though I think DIY is going to give the biggest bang for your buck to reach 1100umols at canopy and still afford to add 400 more intra canopy. I'd imagine having the strips face up might be the best.

That light bar is cool though. Where did you source UV for LED? I know AgroMax recommends a fair distance for their UV supplementation but I'm waiting for improved efficiency with LEDs that maybe the COVID issue will speed up development so we can get UVA/B. Otherwise we have to find a way to implement T5s .

Rapid led that and digikey and cutter are the place I get leds and parts. That how I had mine not 100% pointing up but just enuff of a kick in toward the plant so I wasn't loosing half my light lol. I'm definitely interested in uvb but t5 is a no go if I could wire in to existing that would be ideal.