New Grower What do you think about defoilation?

[Eyes on Fire]

and your second hole in an organic and properly based science argument is also the fact in a healthy transfer of the rhizosphere and plant growth small almost not worth mentioning in loss of energy due to removal of any small leaf pieces or in some circumstances the rare whole leaf removal will FAR from impact and photosynthesis transfer to flower and production. Im done here.

 

[Resinhound]

your first hole on your science debate is the fact that genes across the globe produce a lot more leaves than they need in many cases including and specifically cannabis and to let the maximum amount of energy reach the lower to help them mature up and increase in the wee ass small marble nugget it MIGHT become over a golf ball. I do it all the time and when you read enough to have a real debate come and find me,in the mean time ill show you in time yet again with pics to prove my point that the lowers need a small measure of increased lumens to maintain the maximum yield in a small package. unless you wanna side light and even then,an even more small case of defoliation imo would still be required.

LOL ok I have read enough, and I actually know the science behind it, maybe it's you that needs to do some reading, cutting off leaves exposed to light to expose other leaves to light is pretty dumb and counter productive. You continue to miss the irrevocable fact here.. Light does pass through leaves, hence why we have layered levels of leaves... You don't think a plant knows how to grow it's own flowers? You think after 10 million years of doing it they need some stoner hacking leaves off to effectively make large healthy flowers,?? Come on man.. Lol.

Light Absorption

1. Incident light collects on upper leaf, diffuse light collects on lower surfaces through epidermal cells
2. Internal cell arrangements (for dicots)
3. 
   Epidermal cells on both surfaces
   
   
   
   Mesophyll cells in between
   
   
4. 
   Palisade cells &emdash; elongated; layered perpendicular to leaf surface
   
   
   
   Spongy &emdash; irregularly arranges w. air spaces (isodiametric)

Note: Monocots have mesophyll cells of one type (NO "palisade")

Chloroplasts abundant in palisade mesophyll (evolutionary adaptation to higher fluence rates of incident light)

"sieve effect" &emdash; arrangement of the chloroplasts is not a solid sheet &emdash; much light passes through w/out being absorbed, therefore, leaves have multiple layers to "catch" what passes through! (light scatters at the same time and can be used)

How is light scattered?

Photons change direction due to

1. refractive index of air different from r.i. of water
2. bouncing off organelles
3. air-water interfaces, which are abundant in spongy mesophyll

• Also &emdash; palisade cells are not as efficient (as we might expect), they act as light guides
  Light passes thru the epidermis to the intercellular spaces that act like optical fibers, passing the light to the spongy mesophyll
  
  The result?

• Both scattering & light guides result in an overall greater photosynthetic efficiency for the leaf by distributing light energy to all the cells.

• I'm gonna say it one more time to hopefully get my point across.. Light passes through leaves... There is a reason plants grow layered leaves. It's more efficient. When you hack fingers off leaves exposed to light you are only lowering the total effective photosynthically active surface area. PERIOD.

 

[Eyes on Fire]

yup,your right dude,Im wrong.I havent a clue dude. lol

 

[G.Leave]

LOL ok I have read enough, and I actually know the science behind it, maybe it's you that needs to do some reading, cutting off leaves exposed to light to expose other leaves to light is pretty dumb and counter productive. You continue to miss the irrevocable fact here.. Light does pass through leaves, hence why we have layered levels of leaves... You don't think a plant knows how to grow it's own flowers? You think after 10 million years of doing it they need some stoner hacking leaves off to effectively make large healthy flowers,?? Come on man.. Lol.

Light Absorption

1. Incident light collects on upper leaf, diffuse light collects on lower surfaces through epidermal cells
2. Internal cell arrangements (for dicots)
3. 
   Epidermal cells on both surfaces
   
   
   
   Mesophyll cells in between
   
   
4. 
   Palisade cells &emdash; elongated; layered perpendicular to leaf surface
   
   
   
   Spongy &emdash; irregularly arranges w. air spaces (isodiametric)

Note: Monocots have mesophyll cells of one type (NO "palisade")

Chloroplasts abundant in palisade mesophyll (evolutionary adaptation to higher fluence rates of incident light)

"sieve effect" &emdash; arrangement of the chloroplasts is not a solid sheet &emdash; much light passes through w/out being absorbed, therefore, leaves have multiple layers to "catch" what passes through! (light scatters at the same time and can be used)

How is light scattered?

Photons change direction due to

1. refractive index of air different from r.i. of water
2. bouncing off organelles
3. air-water interfaces, which are abundant in spongy mesophyll

• Also &emdash; palisade cells are not as efficient (as we might expect), they act as light guides
  Light passes thru the epidermis to the intercellular spaces that act like optical fibers, passing the light to the spongy mesophyll
  
  The result?

• Both scattering & light guides result in an overall greater photosynthetic efficiency for the leaf by distributing light energy to all the cells.

• I'm gonna say it one more time to hopefully get my point across.. Light passes through leaves... There is a reason plants grow layered leaves. It's more efficient. When you hack fingers off leaves exposed to light you are only lowering the total effective photosynthically active surface area. PERIOD.

Lets keep it friendly fellas! Remember its the open ness to others opinions and ideas that make this the best cannabis website on the internet!
I am pro defoliation. On photoperiod plants ive watched defoliated branches fill out faster, than branches full leaved, and I have also seen more deeper worthy bud on the branch. Despite what science suggests. I used to average approximated 2:1 ratio in worthy bud to underformed bud. Last season with full plant defoliations every plant I did was closer to 3:1 and even 4:1 ratio, and every plant beat my old best yield records.

 

[Resinhound]

Lets keep it friendly fellas! Remember its the open ness to others opinions and ideas that make this the best cannabis website on the internet!
I am pro defoliation. On photoperiod plants ive watched defoliated branches fill out faster, than branches full leaved, and I have also seen more deeper worthy bud on the branch. Despite what science suggests. I used to average approximated 2:1 ratio in worthy bud to underformed bud. Last season with full plant defoliations every plant I did was closer to 3:1 and even 4:1 ratio, and every plant beat my old best yield records.

I've been friendly from the beginning, merely pointing out known Facts. IF those facts correlate to increased or decreased bud growth is the debate, you have your anecdotal evidence and I have mine to counter that. I can tell you my experience is I don't defoilate and my plants end up a solid mass of bud, complete proliferation from medium all the way up. While that is only anecdotal evidence the Fact remains light does pass through leaves and the horticultural industry... The multi billion dollar industry that lives or dies on its yields know why plants have layered leaves. Cannabis is the only commercial crop in existence that's defoilated to supposedly increase yields. You don't see tomatoes being defoilated to increase fruit weight.. Or any other commercial crop for that matter.

 

[G.Leave]

Okay then....can you explain why when leaves are left on a plant with a heavy canopy on a sun grown plant buds quickly diminish within the canopy? I am not talking about sub par lighting conditions indoors, I am talking about outdoors under the blazing sun. You would think that the power of the sun would easily penetrate the leave and create heavily bud laden branches no? That's never been the case in over 25 years of outdoor growing. It never happened until open canopy training and defoliation, when light penetration changed everything on my side of the fence.

 

[Resinhound]

cuke.hort.ncsu.edu › articles › art028
For anyone that's interested in seeing actual data on the subject.

 

[G.Leave]

cuke.hort.ncsu.edu › articles › art028
For anyone that's interested in seeing actual data on the subject.

Alright, its obvious I am another guy that doesn't know shit about growing...i'll just take my 5 pounders and hide under a rock somewhere.

 

[Resinhound]

Okay then....can you explain why when leaves are left on a plant with a heavy canopy on a sun grown plant buds quickly diminish within the canopy? I am not talking about sub par lighting conditions indoors, I am talking about outdoors under the blazing sun. You would think that the power of the sun would easily penetrate the leave and create heavily bud laden branches no? That's never been the case in over 25 years of outdoor growing. It never happened until open canopy training and defoliation, when light penetration changed everything on my side of the fence.

Again selective pruning of shoots is one thing, stripping a plant of leaves is another. I can only say I don't see the problem you are seeing my plants grow heavy buds even under the canopy. One only has to do a 5 min Web search to see that defoliation leads to decreased fruit weight in nearly all species of plants... The link to the pdf I posted is on vegetables..but the evidence is there. All plants on this planet share common mechanisms, cannabis is no different. Defoliation leads to decreased fruit weight, this is why commercial AG doesn't do it... The only place you ever hear of defoliation to increase yields is on cannabis boards..

 

[Resinhound]

Alright, its obvious I am another guy that doesn't know shit about growing...i'll just take my 5 pounders and hide under a rock somewhere.

Well I'm not saying you aren't growing good plants man... 5 pound plants is awesome.still doesn't mean defoliation is the reason. There are many other variables, perhaps if you pruned them instead of just defoilating like most of the AG industry they would be 8 or 10 pound plants, who knows. I guess there can be possibly no other variables to account for 5 pounds plants besides defoliation huh?