Grow Mediums Watering times, frequency's, schedule etc. discussion

[Slater]

Well, been pissing around with my little automated dribbler and realise she can only be programmed one way - how long it dribbles for (1 sec to 99 seconds) per interval (once every hour, through to once every 30 days, in increments of an hour)....

So essentially I have one programmable setting. bugger! It's workable I think, but probably gonna have to go to multiple feeds a day straight off the bat. errrrr.

Just tested her again, and get 300ml out for every 90 seconds of dribble using 4 drippers.

Gonna have to work this out

short multiple watering is good... if you read back through the thread @Mañ'O'Green has great write up on his system, this is what he has to say on the subject. Even though he talking about rock wool you can still apply it to coco.

I could not understand why such a small amount of water per cycle until in the course of our conversation the topic of “Water Channeling” came up. When you water in larger faster volumes the water develops “channels” through the block instead of permeating the entire block. Smaller slower more frequent watering provides a more desirable capillary action. This capillary action moistens and aerates the block more evenly which is the goal as opposed to just the areas close to the channels.

 

[Budulike]

short multiple watering is good... if you read back through the thread @Mañ'O'Green has great write up on his system, this is what he has to say on the subject. Even though he talking about rock wool you can still apply it to coco.

Cheers buddy, will study what @Mañ'O'Green has to say on the subject (probably should have done that already!) - gonna have to go that anyway, as I've got no choice really, although I may test the system out with more drippers attached and see if I get more vol. of water out.
Thanks for your help/patience and pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Budulike]

So, finished all the research and am starting the dribble test today.....

My automated dribbler has only one programmable setting, so made one specific change to the grow environment to compensate for this: moved to a 24/0 light schedule - as opposed to 20/4.

Am starting on 3 feeds a day, at 8hr intervals, for around 80 seconds each - which should mean my girl gets roughly 250ml of feed @ around 800 ppm every 8 hrs....?

Gonna be checking on her alot to ensure I get; run-off over a 24 hr period, and no leaf burn.......

If you want to follow along, check out my grow journal - Bush Wrangler vol 1. : Blueberry Kush/Coco/Canna nutes/COB

Thanks for your help @Slater......will let you know if it all goes tits up, but fingers crossed it all stays rosy in the garden!

 

[Budulike]

You'all should take a few tokes before reading this

My system is still evolving. It is top feed drip irrigation to waste in rockwool cubes. I water 8 times starting 2 hours after lights on until 2 hours before lights out on the 18/6 schedule so 8 equally spaced watering times over 14 hours . On 12/12 watering starts 3 hours after lights on to 3 hours before lights out same 8 watering periods so 8 equally spaced watering times over 6 hours. 1 minute is the minimum run time which is 3.4 ounces for each cube. Period 1 = 1 minute, 2 = 1 minute, 3 = 2, 4= 2, 5 = 3, 6 = 3, 7 = 4, 8 = 4 minute run. Or about 60 oz per day per cube. I increase this when I notice I am not getting enough runoff. Whew...... The idea here is to prevent channeling in the cubes and to get a 20% of the water applied to exit to waste. I have a 10 gallon reservoir attached to a 35 gallon top off tank. The top off tank holds aerated PH 6.0 water. The nutrients in the reservoir start at the PPMs appropriate for the stage of growth; say 1000 PPM I allow it to drop to 700 PPMs then add nutes to bring it back up. Since I drain to waste the balance intended by the vendor is maintained. I do drain and clean the reservoir when I Flip to 12/12.

I know it seems complicated and it was at first but I really don't have to think about it much now. Here is a long winded version of the precision watering schedule:

Ok so after communicating with the west coast GroDan rep; there is a newer “Precision Watering” method recommended in my scenario that supersedes the previously published information. I am going to reiterate the information sent and discussed with me here and I will try to explain what it means to me in my 6 plant grow as well as some of the ideas behind the changes. You want to slowly water about 3% of the capacity of the rock wool block on each pump on cycle with enough cycles to accomplish a 10% to 20% of that total volume as run off by the end of the watering period that day.


Watering Formula


1 Gallon of Water = 231 in3

1 Hugo = 216 in3 (.94gal)

1 Ounce = 1.805 in3

1 Gallon = 128 oz.


Formula:

216 ÷ 231 = .94gal. x 128oz. = 120 x 3% = 3.6oz.


Whew….. Ok so let’s talk first about that small 3.6 oz. of water (nutrient mix) per cycle for the Hugo. I could not understand why such a small amount of water per cycle until in the course of our conversation the topic of “Water Channeling” came up. When you water in larger faster volumes the water develops “channels” through the block instead of permeating the entire block. Smaller slower more frequent watering provides a more desirable capillary action. This capillary action moistens and aerates the block more evenly which is the goal as opposed to just the areas close to the channels. It was like a light went on for me with this revelation. Using “X” number of water cycles per day to achieve a 10% to 20% run off of the total water applied in those cycles by the end of the day has to be accomplished by observation and measuring the run off. This small runoff is what is flushing any salt build up out of the block daily. The number of cycles in a period is going to change as the plants uptake changes and I think I have figured out a way to keep tabs on that in my system. More on that as the grow proceeds.

The “when” to water patterns has changed as well from previously prescribed regimes, it is now recommended for me in Veg. to start watering 2 – 4 hours after lights on until 4 – 2 hours prior to lights out. So this is a 12 to 14 hour watering window in veg. Listening to your plants is part of determining when to start and stop within these hourly ranges. Remember you need to achieve that 10% - 20% runoff of the total by the end of the watering time frame. Not watering during lights out is going to provide a very important “Dry Back Period” in the block which stimulates root growth and health.

In flower mode you water from ~4 hours after lights on until ~4 hours prior to lights out. Here we are talking about a 4 hour watering window in which to accomplish the runoff. Shrinking down the watering window places more stress on the plants to strive for “survival of the species with bigger better flowers hoping to get pollinated” at least that is the theory behind it. I think that this may set a very fine line between good stress and too much stress that can cause hermies in some strains. Consequently I may opt to be a bit conservative here.

When I am ready to transplant the A-Ok starter blocks into the Hugos, I will prepare the Hugos by following Grodan’s instructions soaking them in 5.5 PH water for 30 minutes then flushing to waste with ¼ strength nutrients PHed 5.5 to 6.0. Transplant, and then don’t water for 7 – 10 days in order to establish a good root system in the Hugo. Watering should start when the blocks are ~30% - 50% moisture content. Just picking them up is the test here they will be light yet should still have about 36oz to 60oz of water.

The “First drip watering”, It has been explained to me that runoff from this first drip watering will begin at around the 4th cycle which means I will have applied about 14.4oz per block and would be looking for 1.4oz. to 2.8oz runoff; If I don’t get that then I would want to add another cycle in which case I will have applied 17oz and looking for 1.7oz to 3.4oz and so on. Remember I have a big watering window and the plants will not be very large yet so I should be able to dial this in.

Now I don’t want to water again until the block is at that ~30% to 50% moisture content range again which may be a few days or more but now I will have a better idea on the number of cycles needed to get the proper runoff.

As the grow progresses I will just keep ramping up the number of water cycles to meet the plants demands and getting that 10% to 20% runoff as well as keeping within the other watering parameters above.

As you can see I have made some adaptations to this keeping the no-channeling and run-off concepts as key to what I want to do.

@Mañ'O'Green just wanted to express my thanks for you sharing all this good info, invaluable stuff, and greatly appreciated my man!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

My pleasure @Budulike. That information came from a GroDan representative that I met at a trade show. I am following that water timing in the past 3 and current grows. I have developed a feel for when to up the water duration and can better judge when I am getting the right amount of runoff . Once the plants are done stretching the water needs stabilize and then no further additions are needed. You can still have a curveball come your way though; I had a pump fail and a timmer came unplugged. The yields have yet to match by best DWC but I am using only about 40% of the nutrients and water to complete a grow and the yields are only off by ~ 12%. Some things that factor into that yield statement that makes the statistic useless is the fact that I am growing from seed new strains every time. My summer grow will be low yielding but the strains are legendary. I cannot wait to taste them.

 

[Budulike]

My pleasure @Budulike. That information came from a GroDan representative that I met at a trade show. I am following that water timing in the past 3 and current grows. I have developed a feel for when to up the water duration and can better judge when I am getting the right amount of runoff . Once the plants are done stretching the water needs stabilize and then no further additions are needed. You can still have a curveball come your way though; I had a pump fail and a timmer came unplugged. The yields have yet to match by best DWC but I am using only about 40% of the nutrients and water to complete a grow and the yields are only off by ~ 12%. Some things that factor into that yield statement that makes the statistic useless is the fact that I am growing from seed new strains every time. My summer grow will be low yielding but the strains are legendary. I cannot wait to taste them.

Well thanks for passing on the knowledge and in an understandable way too! Must admit to being a little paranoid on whether or not my new automated dribbler is working properly - the only way I can tell at the moment is that water/feed levels keep dropping in the feed tank - not getting any run-off as of yet, but it is early days. However, that being said, I can see how this set up can lead to a pretty scientific understanding of what is going and what a plant needs - so looking forward to tuning this all in and getting somewhere near to results I see in your journals, here's hoping anyway. Also thanks for that additional info about the plant stretch etc, will watch out for that...

Good luck with the summer grow buddy, may it taste better than you hope!

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Well thanks for passing on the knowledge and in an understandable way too! Must admit to being a little paranoid on whether or not my new automated dribbler is working properly - the only way I can tell at the moment is that water/feed levels keep dropping in the feed tank - not getting any run-off as of yet, but it is early days. However, that being said, I can see how this set up can lead to a pretty scientific understanding of what is going and what a plant needs - so looking forward to tuning this all in and getting somewhere near to results I see in your journals, here's hoping anyway. Also thanks for that additional info about the plant stretch etc, will watch out for that...

Good luck with the summer grow buddy, may it taste better than you hope!

The Wild Thailand is supposed to be the same strain that the Thai Sticks from the early 70s was made from. Of course I won't have the opium to dip them in but still should be memorable. The Panama is as close as I will ever get to the famous Panama Red from the same era. I once had 40 bricks of Panama Red. Aagh the good old days .

 

[Budulike]

The Wild Thailand is supposed to be the same strain that the Thai Sticks from the early 70s was made from. Of course I won't have the opium to dip them in but still should be memorable. The Panama is as close as I will ever get to the famous Panama Red from the same era. I once had 40 bricks of Panama Red. Aagh the good old days .

Well tag me if you do a journal when that starts, would like to see that. Have had some Thai Stick, no idea if it was the original 70's stuff, but loved it none the less - a quality high!!!

Peace brother.....

 

[Slater]

The Wild Thailand is supposed to be the same strain that the Thai Sticks from the early 70s was made from. Of course I won't have the opium to dip them in but still should be memorable. The Panama is as close as I will ever get to the famous Panama Red from the same era. I once had 40 bricks of Panama Red. Aagh the good old days .

you got Thia stick dipped in opium...

you lucky lucky basterd


we used smoke loads of Thia stick back in the day. All we could get hold of at one point but never dipped in opium.

 

[Tony21]

A simple way is put a large tray under the pot and keep it 1-4 cm deep, simple, I like it. Fill, wait 2-4 day, repeat, it's very boring actually haha
If anyone is being finicky, a tray in the tray and on it goes

Getting some 200 g or more from a 3 l netpot is not difficult, but 10 L is better for a more solid heavy platform, better contra weight haha

If all goes well it should be like this