Grow Mediums Watering times, frequency's, schedule etc. discussion

[Slater]

You'all should take a few tokes before reading this

My system is still evolving. It is top feed drip irrigation to waste in rockwool cubes. I water 8 times starting 2 hours after lights on until 2 hours before lights out on the 18/6 schedule so 8 equally spaced watering times over 14 hours . On 12/12 watering starts 3 hours after lights on to 3 hours before lights out same 8 watering periods so 8 equally spaced watering times over 6 hours. 1 minute is the minimum run time which is 3.4 ounces for each cube. Period 1 = 1 minute, 2 = 1 minute, 3 = 2, 4= 2, 5 = 3, 6 = 3, 7 = 4, 8 = 4 minute run. Or about 60 oz per day per cube. I increase this when I notice I am not getting enough runoff. Whew...... The idea here is to prevent channeling in the cubes and to get a 20% of the water applied to exit to waste. I have a 10 gallon reservoir attached to a 35 gallon top off tank. The top off tank holds aerated PH 6.0 water. The nutrients in the reservoir start at the PPMs appropriate for the stage of growth; say 1000 PPM I allow it to drop to 700 PPMs then add nutes to bring it back up. Since I drain to waste the balance intended by the vendor is maintained. I do drain and clean the reservoir when I Flip to 12/12.

I know it seems complicated and it was at first but I really don't have to think about it much now. Here is a long winded version of the precision watering schedule:

Ok so after communicating with the west coast GroDan rep; there is a newer “Precision Watering” method recommended in my scenario that supersedes the previously published information. I am going to reiterate the information sent and discussed with me here and I will try to explain what it means to me in my 6 plant grow as well as some of the ideas behind the changes. You want to slowly water about 3% of the capacity of the rock wool block on each pump on cycle with enough cycles to accomplish a 10% to 20% of that total volume as run off by the end of the watering period that day.


Watering Formula


1 Gallon of Water = 231 in3

1 Hugo = 216 in3 (.94gal)

1 Ounce = 1.805 in3

1 Gallon = 128 oz.


Formula:

216 ÷ 231 = .94gal. x 128oz. = 120 x 3% = 3.6oz.


Whew….. Ok so let’s talk first about that small 3.6 oz. of water (nutrient mix) per cycle for the Hugo. I could not understand why such a small amount of water per cycle until in the course of our conversation the topic of “Water Channeling” came up. When you water in larger faster volumes the water develops “channels” through the block instead of permeating the entire block. Smaller slower more frequent watering provides a more desirable capillary action. This capillary action moistens and aerates the block more evenly which is the goal as opposed to just the areas close to the channels. It was like a light went on for me with this revelation. Using “X” number of water cycles per day to achieve a 10% to 20% run off of the total water applied in those cycles by the end of the day has to be accomplished by observation and measuring the run off. This small runoff is what is flushing any salt build up out of the block daily. The number of cycles in a period is going to change as the plants uptake changes and I think I have figured out a way to keep tabs on that in my system. More on that as the grow proceeds.

The “when” to water patterns has changed as well from previously prescribed regimes, it is now recommended for me in Veg. to start watering 2 – 4 hours after lights on until 4 – 2 hours prior to lights out. So this is a 12 to 14 hour watering window in veg. Listening to your plants is part of determining when to start and stop within these hourly ranges. Remember you need to achieve that 10% - 20% runoff of the total by the end of the watering time frame. Not watering during lights out is going to provide a very important “Dry Back Period” in the block which stimulates root growth and health.

In flower mode you water from ~4 hours after lights on until ~4 hours prior to lights out. Here we are talking about a 4 hour watering window in which to accomplish the runoff. Shrinking down the watering window places more stress on the plants to strive for “survival of the species with bigger better flowers hoping to get pollinated” at least that is the theory behind it. I think that this may set a very fine line between good stress and too much stress that can cause hermies in some strains. Consequently I may opt to be a bit conservative here.

When I am ready to transplant the A-Ok starter blocks into the Hugos, I will prepare the Hugos by following Grodan’s instructions soaking them in 5.5 PH water for 30 minutes then flushing to waste with ¼ strength nutrients PHed 5.5 to 6.0. Transplant, and then don’t water for 7 – 10 days in order to establish a good root system in the Hugo. Watering should start when the blocks are ~30% - 50% moisture content. Just picking them up is the test here they will be light yet should still have about 36oz to 60oz of water.

The “First drip watering”, It has been explained to me that runoff from this first drip watering will begin at around the 4th cycle which means I will have applied about 14.4oz per block and would be looking for 1.4oz. to 2.8oz runoff; If I don’t get that then I would want to add another cycle in which case I will have applied 17oz and looking for 1.7oz to 3.4oz and so on. Remember I have a big watering window and the plants will not be very large yet so I should be able to dial this in.

Now I don’t want to water again until the block is at that ~30% to 50% moisture content range again which may be a few days or more but now I will have a better idea on the number of cycles needed to get the proper runoff.

As the grow progresses I will just keep ramping up the number of water cycles to meet the plants demands and getting that 10% to 20% runoff as well as keeping within the other watering parameters above.

As you can see I have made some adaptations to this keeping the no-channeling and run-off concepts as key to what I want to do.

Now that's dropping some knowledge, reading and re reading. A lot to digest.
Again thank you @Mañ'O'Green Man this is the best break down I've read on the subject Time to get up to the G'room and contemplate some this for my set up

 

[Slater]

I have a revolving grow and start a new plant every 10 to 14 days so I mix each plants nutes individually. I enjoy and get to nurture each one individually. It's a hobby I love so don't mind.
I grow in 5 litre pots with potting soil and add 10% vermiculite and 10% coco. All I do is soak the pot with aged tap water and nutes until run off 12 hours before I plant seed, about 1.25 litres of water. Then wait until pot gets light anywhere between 1.5 and 2 weeks. Then do the same again, usually once a week through veg stage. When the plant is about to flower, I do a midweek water of 1/2 normal nutes dose and about 3/4 litre water. I use 1.5 litre coke bottles to water with a cap with a few holes drilled in it. 7 plants take me an hour or 2 on the weekend and 1/2 hour midweek.

Sent from my comfy chair. Link to my grows. [emoji16][emoji41] [emoji43][emoji848]
"https://www.autoflower.org/index.php?threads/63634/"
"https://www.autoflower.org/index.php?threads/63746/"

A perfect description for soil growing, nice on @Rollin_along that pretty well much described my water schedule when I was in soil. I added the the 10% coco as well, boi bizz already had the perlite already in it.

 

[Mañ'O'Green]

Now that's dropping some knowledge, reading and re reading. A lot to digest.
Again thank you @Mañ'O'Green Man this is the best break down I've read on the subject Time to get up to the G'room and contemplate some this for my set up

Yes there is a lot of empirical information but there is no substitute for experience. Being able to look at your plants and determine something is wrong before it is a major issue is worth all of the books on the subject times ten.

I think that the best start to hydroponics is in a 5 gallon bubbleponics bucket. Here are the basics:

Sharing some things I have learned doing Deep Water Culture with cannabis.

Technically what I use is called “Bubbleponics”. First your environmental needs must be met - light, temperature, humidity and air movement all need to be in range for plants to grow well. I will assume you understand these basic concepts. The rules for a good DWC are simple but not very forgiving. Plants respond adversely quickly to something out of range. The good thing is that they will also respond well to a correction quickly. DWC is an everyday task; in fact checking your plants many times a day can keep you ahead of needs.

Two tools that you cannot do without are a good PH meter and a TDS meter; both should be equipped with a temperature gauge as well. Maintain them and replace them on the vendor’s schedule.

The five basic components:

1. Water. You could spend a lifetime trying to learn about water for plant growth but let’s keep it simple. Most people can use their tap water as long as the beginning PPM is 200 or less. If your water goes over this you will need to mix it with distilled or Reverse Osmosis water to get it below 200 PPM. Use a float valve and top off bucket to keep the water level in your reservoir consistent even small fluctuations can cause stress. Set the water level 1” – ½” below the bottom of your net pot. Aerate your water for a day or two before you intend to use it. This will help precipitate calcium carbonate out of the water and make it easier to control your PH. I just use my top off tank for this. The perfect reservoir water temperature is 68°F. This is the temperature that water holds the most dissolved oxygen. Do not use copper, brass or aluminum anywhere in your system; not even the tiniest fitting.

2. Air. Roots need air. An aquarium air pump and air stones provide this critical component. I always use two pump/stone combos for redundancy. Losing aeration even for a short period can be problematic. The smaller the bubbles are coming out of the stones the better. I use a UPS battery back-up on my air pumps. The volume of airflow needs to be high enough to saturate the roots but not be so violent that the roots are damaged. Smaller bubbles allow more airflow with less violence.

3. Nutrients. Just make this a no brainer. Unless you have a lab and the skills to use it; choose ONE nutrient vendor whose products are built from the ground up for cannabis hydroponics and use their entire line. Do not mix and match. Vendors spend millions of dollars and years developing their products to work with each other. Take advantage of that. Follow their feeding schedule. Change the water/nutrient solution every week – without fail. Learn about Liebig’s law of the Minimum to understand why you are doing this. Look at the Liebig’s Barrel to visualize what we are talking about here. DO NOT MIX NUTRENTS INTO THE RESERVOIR; mix them in a separate container using water that has been aerated for a day or two following vendor instructions the day before the reservoir refresh. Doing this ahead of time will make it much easier to get the PH balanced and stable. A suction pump will be worth its weight in gold to help evacuate the reservoir for a refresh. Many product lines can and should be used at 50% of the vendor’s chart strengths in DWC but not all of them. Do a little research on your chosen brand.

4. PH. PH has absolutely everything to do with the uptake of nutrients into the plant. Let it range from 5.7 to 6.2 in DWC. This will allow the different components to move through the best uptake zones for that nutrient. Check the PH every day even multiple times per day is better. Roots not only take water and nutrients in they also exude substances that can dramatically change the PH in the reservoir in a very short period of time. I am talking hours here not days. Mix PH buffers into some water before adding to the reservoir to prevent burning the roots. Make small changes at a time. One full point is too much (5.2 to 6.2). It takes practice and vigilance to maintain PH in the proper range. PH problems have caused me more issues than all of the other environmental factors combined. The minute you take your eye off this it will bite your plants in the ass!

5. Botanicare HydroGuard. The only additive outside of your chosen nutrient regime I recommend. It is a must have. I would not even buy a bucket before I had this in stock. Root Rot is totally preventable with this. I live where it is not possible to maintain the reservoir temperature below 78°F in the summertime and it has gone as high as 82°F. The ability for water to keep oxygen saturation at that high of a temperature is minimized. Think stagnant pond! I have grown great plants totally root rot free using HydroGuard under these conditions. High temperatures are not the only thing that can cause root problems. Botanicare HydroGuard is a basic component to DWC. I am not affiliated with or compensated in any way for this endorsement by anyone except my happy plants with huge colas.

I have tried several ways to get a plant started. Top feeding seeds planted in small rock wool cubes or Park’s Bio Dome sponges supported in the net pot by PH balanced clay pebbles until the roots get down into the reservoir a couple of inches has worked best for me. Then stop top feeding to prevent crown rot.

ps. thanks for the rep slap!

 

[Need4Weed]

Yes there is a lot of empirical information but there is no substitute for experience. Being able to look at your plants and determine something is wrong before it is a major issue is worth all of the books on the subject times ten.

I think that the best start to hydroponics is in a 5 gallon bubbleponics bucket. Here are the basics:

Sharing some things I have learned doing Deep Water Culture with cannabis.

Technically what I use is called “Bubbleponics”. First your environmental needs must be met - light, temperature, humidity and air movement all need to be in range for plants to grow well. I will assume you understand these basic concepts. The rules for a good DWC are simple but not very forgiving. Plants respond adversely quickly to something out of range. The good thing is that they will also respond well to a correction quickly. DWC is an everyday task; in fact checking your plants many times a day can keep you ahead of needs.

Two tools that you cannot do without are a good PH meter and a TDS meter; both should be equipped with a temperature gauge as well. Maintain them and replace them on the vendor’s schedule.

The five basic components:

1. Water. You could spend a lifetime trying to learn about water for plant growth but let’s keep it simple. Most people can use their tap water as long as the beginning PPM is 200 or less. If your water goes over this you will need to mix it with distilled or Reverse Osmosis water to get it below 200 PPM. Use a float valve and top off bucket to keep the water level in your reservoir consistent even small fluctuations can cause stress. Set the water level 1” – ½” below the bottom of your net pot. Aerate your water for a day or two before you intend to use it. This will help precipitate calcium carbonate out of the water and make it easier to control your PH. I just use my top off tank for this. The perfect reservoir water temperature is 68°F. This is the temperature that water holds the most dissolved oxygen. Do not use copper, brass or aluminum anywhere in your system; not even the tiniest fitting.

2. Air. Roots need air. An aquarium air pump and air stones provide this critical component. I always use two pump/stone combos for redundancy. Losing aeration even for a short period can be problematic. The smaller the bubbles are coming out of the stones the better. I use a UPS battery back-up on my air pumps. The volume of airflow needs to be high enough to saturate the roots but not be so violent that the roots are damaged. Smaller bubbles allow more airflow with less violence.

3. Nutrients. Just make this a no brainer. Unless you have a lab and the skills to use it; choose ONE nutrient vendor whose products are built from the ground up for cannabis hydroponics and use their entire line. Do not mix and match. Vendors spend millions of dollars and years developing their products to work with each other. Take advantage of that. Follow their feeding schedule. Change the water/nutrient solution every week – without fail. Learn about Liebig’s law of the Minimum to understand why you are doing this. Look at the Liebig’s Barrel to visualize what we are talking about here. DO NOT MIX NUTRENTS INTO THE RESERVOIR; mix them in a separate container using water that has been aerated for a day or two following vendor instructions the day before the reservoir refresh. Doing this ahead of time will make it much easier to get the PH balanced and stable. A suction pump will be worth its weight in gold to help evacuate the reservoir for a refresh. Many product lines can and should be used at 50% of the vendor’s chart strengths in DWC but not all of them. Do a little research on your chosen brand.

4. PH. PH has absolutely everything to do with the uptake of nutrients into the plant. Let it range from 5.7 to 6.2 in DWC. This will allow the different components to move through the best uptake zones for that nutrient. Check the PH every day even multiple times per day is better. Roots not only take water and nutrients in they also exude substances that can dramatically change the PH in the reservoir in a very short period of time. I am talking hours here not days. Mix PH buffers into some water before adding to the reservoir to prevent burning the roots. Make small changes at a time. One full point is too much (5.2 to 6.2). It takes practice and vigilance to maintain PH in the proper range. PH problems have caused me more issues than all of the other environmental factors combined. The minute you take your eye off this it will bite your plants in the ass!

5. Botanicare HydroGuard. The only additive outside of your chosen nutrient regime I recommend. It is a must have. I would not even buy a bucket before I had this in stock. Root Rot is totally preventable with this. I live where it is not possible to maintain the reservoir temperature below 78°F in the summertime and it has gone as high as 82°F. The ability for water to keep oxygen saturation at that high of a temperature is minimized. Think stagnant pond! I have grown great plants totally root rot free using HydroGuard under these conditions. High temperatures are not the only thing that can cause root problems. Botanicare HydroGuard is a basic component to DWC. I am not affiliated with or compensated in any way for this endorsement by anyone except my happy plants with huge colas.

I have tried several ways to get a plant started. Top feeding seeds planted in small rock wool cubes or Park’s Bio Dome sponges supported in the net pot by PH balanced clay pebbles until the roots get down into the reservoir a couple of inches has worked best for me. Then stop top feeding to prevent crown rot.

ps. thanks for the rep slap!

Great read @Mañ'O'Green

 

[AutoWonders]

How big are your pots and do you mix with perlite?

I am currently using 2 & 3 gallon pots which are mixed with rice hulls instead of perlite. This run is my first test with rice hulls.

 

[Budulike]

Howdy

Interesting thread @Slater, thanks for starting her up!

Just purchased an automated dribbler (Amazon product), primarily cos I might need to leave my girl for a few days at a time and wanted to make sure she wants for nothing in my absence. Also, I love the results I am seeing from a multiple feed a day schedule, and in truth I am pretty lazy, so like the idea of automated feeding!

Been reading some of the threads on this technique (e.g. - @Truu - What Truu knows about Coco), and had a question I am hoping you (or any of the other professional dribblers) can help me with.

So, think I need to set the scene first.

Growing in Coco (w/ 30% perlite)
2 gal Smart Pot
Canna Coco nute range
250ml bottle of Drip Clean
Micro Automatic Drip Irrigation Kit
And here is my grow journal:
Bush Wrangler vol 1. : Blueberry Kush/Coco/Canna nutes/COB.

QUESTION: been told you need to wait until the root ball is well developed before you start dribbling on your girls multiple times a day - is there an easy way to know when the root ball is developed enough to begin multiple feeds per day? For example, do you wait until you can see roots popping out the side of the smart pot?
I am 14 days in on my grow, node 4 is developing nicely, and so far have been hand feeding roughly every 3 days......

Cheers brother

 

[Budulike]

This is the drip irrigation system I got, hopefully its not a piece of @£$% waste of money

 

[Slater]

Howdy

Interesting thread @Slater, thanks for starting her up!

Just purchased an automated dribbler (Amazon product), primarily cos I might need to leave my girl for a few days at a time and wanted to make sure she wants for nothing in my absence. Also, I love the results I am seeing from a multiple feed a day schedule, and in truth I am pretty lazy, so like the idea of automated feeding!

Been reading some of the threads on this technique (e.g. - @Truu - What Truu knows about Coco), and had a question I am hoping you (or any of the other professional dribblers) can help me with.

So, think I need to set the scene first.

Growing in Coco (w/ 30% perlite)
2 gal Smart Pot
Canna Coco nute range
250ml bottle of Drip Clean
Micro Automatic Drip Irrigation Kit
And here is my grow journal:
Bush Wrangler vol 1. : Blueberry Kush/Coco/Canna nutes/COB.

QUESTION: been told you need to wait until the root ball is well developed before you start dribbling on your girls multiple times a day - is there an easy way to know when the root ball is developed enough to begin multiple feeds per day? For example, do you wait until you can see roots popping out the side of the smart pot?
I am 14 days in on my grow, node 4 is developing nicely, and so far have been hand feeding roughly every 3 days......

Cheers brother

hey @Budulike

I like to use automation like you say so I can get away from the G'room for a couple of days and due to my set up. It got a pain in the ass getting the plants in and out of the tent for watering so it made sense for me to go automated.

To answer your question I normally give it a least a week at the minimum taking note on how fast they are drinking. For those first 2-3 feedings I don't water to run off, giving about a 3/4ltr per pot (I run 12ltr pots) seeing how long this takes to dry out, I don't go as dry as soil but still dry enough that I can lift the pot with one hand ( I do the finger test as well). As the theory go's you want those root shooting out looking for water and filling the pot fast, so little feedings at the start. Once they are drying out over a 24hr period I start my feeding schedule.

one thing I have notice on my last 2 grows is that daily / multiple daily feedings only works well if your plants are fast drinkers (this is just my thinking)... I've just finished a Zombie kush grow, slow drinkers. Never got them preying on the first round, in fact not my best performance by long shot. A bit embarrassing if any one was watching. On the secound round, feeding every 48hrs instead of every 24hrs. Huge improvement so far, faster growth, much bigger bud sites, they have stared to prey to the LED gods, all in all a massive improvement over the first so far. So by swapping to every 48hrs I'm seeing a massive difference and all I did was change the feeding time to every 48hrs (I lie, I have dropped the EC a bit as well)... one thing that I am still doing is that even though I'm feeding only every 48hr I'm still spacing out the feeding over a period of time. For the secound round of zombie's I'm feeding 2hrs after lights on. 8 feedings for 15 to 20 sec every 5mins until i see run off on those last 2 feedings. I will adjust the 8 individual feeding times weekly depending on how much they are drinking.

That's does look like a smart bit of kit, once you get it up a running get a review up here with some pics. Love to see how it works.

 

[Budulike]

hey @Budulike

I like to use automation like you say so I can get away from the G'room for a couple of days and due to my set up. It got a pain in the ass getting the plants in and out of the tent for watering so it made sense for me to go automated.

To answer your question I normally give it a least a week at the minimum taking note on how fast they are drinking. For those first 2-3 feedings I don't water to run off, giving about a 3/4ltr per pot (I run 12ltr pots) seeing how long this takes to dry out, I don't go as dry as soil but still dry enough that I can lift the pot with one hand ( I do the finger test as well). As the theory go's you want those root shooting out looking for water and filling the pot fast, so little feedings at the start. Once they are drying out over a 24hr period I start my feeding schedule.

one thing I have notice on my last 2 grows is that daily / multiple daily feedings only works well if your plants are fast drinkers (this is just my thinking)... I've just finished a Zombie kush grow, slow drinkers. Never got them preying on the first round, in fact not my best performance by long shot. A bit embarrassing if any one was watching. On the secound round, feeding every 48hrs instead of every 24hrs. Huge improvement so far, faster growth, much bigger bud sites, they have stared to prey to the LED gods, all in all a massive improvement over the first so far. So by swapping to every 48hrs I'm seeing a massive difference and all I did was change the feeding time to every 48hrs (I lie, I have dropped the EC a bit as well)... one thing that I am still doing is that even though I'm feeding only every 48hr I'm still spacing out the feeding over a period of time. For the secound round of zombie's I'm feeding 2hrs after lights on. 8 feedings for 15 to 20 sec every 5mins until i see run off on those last 2 feedings. I will adjust the 8 individual feeding times weekly depending on how much they are drinking.

That's does look like a smart bit of kit, once you get it up a running get a review up here with some pics. Love to see how it works.

Thanks for the detailed response @Slater, exactly what I was looking for....

Ok, so it sounds like I am nearing the time when I need to plug my dribbler in!

I am on Day 16 now, roots are just starting to poke their little noses out the side of my smart pot, and I gave her a first feed to run-off yesterday (had been giving her mini feeds of 500ml up till then, alternating between the edge of the pot and around the base of the plant). I just picked the pot up now and she is already feeling light. So I think I'll hand feed her one more time tomorrow, again to run-off, and weigh her etc so I can get a clear I idea of how much she is drinking in 24hrs.

I'll then probably plug the dribbler in and start her on 48hr feeds (and follow your 8 feedings every 5 min trick, IF I can program that into the dribbler - suppose that stops channeling in the coco and the feed/water pissing out the bottom?) @ roughly 800 ppm, and see how she responds - if she's drinking quickly, then I'll go straight to 24hr (and lower the ppm to suit) etc etc....

I'll certainly do a review of the dribbler, once I know how it works! Not too sure if it has many options programming wise, that is my only concern at the moment, but it dribbles fairly slowly, @ roughly 100ml every 30 seconds using 4 drippers, which I think is a good thing.

Anyways, thanks for the all the tips, mucho apprecionado mon amigo, will keep you posted on how I get on......

 

[Budulike]

Well, been pissing around with my little automated dribbler and realise she can only be programmed one way - how long it dribbles for (1 sec to 99 seconds) per interval (once every hour, through to once every 30 days, in increments of an hour)....

So essentially I have one programmable setting. bugger! It's workable I think, but probably gonna have to go to multiple feeds a day straight off the bat. errrrr.

Just tested her again, and get 300ml out for every 90 seconds of dribble using 4 drippers.

Gonna have to work this out