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Outdoor Smokey's 2020 Grow - Summer- Autumn Winter
- Thread starter smokeyfromau
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a low of 5c this morning
days temp 22 c
RH is bad 27 - 39% inside 41 so low for little auto seedlings, Thanks Waira, yes VPD maybe is the issue as Durban has those curled like leaves
Looking great Smokey..
Thanks GTG, yeah some issues appears could be VPD as Waira mentioned, wish winter was like they said it was to be wetter than average, lol so got that wrong the weather service
Hey Waira mateHey Smokey! ..... let's see what's what here,...
That wetting agent, that's really a multi-product, made of many things, most they don't say specifically -... not a bad thing, but maybe not good either?
I dunno WTF they are talking about with that "incompatibility" issue, I'd get on the phone to them about that! Weird ads hell frankly, the last thing it should do is cause cross reactions with common sulfate compounds,... Do they mean gypsum (CaSO4), other micronutrient sulfates? (my fav' Earth Juice Microblast is mainly sufate based compounds)... You'd think the humic/fulvic would prevent that,...One would think this product isn't meant to screw up S availability! They got some explaining to do....
The whole plant color fade, that's less clear,... I can't tell is it worst at tops? S defc. is the one that usually does this, whole plant thing, but tops worst and first usually,... P defc, or a co-defc. with something else can do this too, but i keep thinking something else is causing a bottleneck here,...
-- in-pot pH is always where you start first, that must be known to eliminate lockout, and help confirm it's more likely a simple lack-of type defc.,... not lock-out or an antagonistic uptake issue... Have you seen page 2 in the Defc. Pic Depot and the nute excess charts? I don't think you have an excess issue, but....** (see below) ... Do you have a soil pH probe, like Hecno's? That's the same unit as the Accurate 8 I tout....
--- some N defc. happening too, partly normal, but most often it hits low down, draining individual leaves first, not paling the whole plant... it's readily mobile
-- how cold has it been at night? Low T's, even in the low teen's C can retard uptake/transport... how fast they warm up is also a big player...
-- I see you do have Ca, Si going in,... B is another very very important micronute, it's a major facilitator like Si and Ca for uptake and transport.. Does anything you've added have it? An easy fix that, Borax! ... ** also, what you've added, how much, how often should be reviewed for me,..
-- large plants in fairly small pots relatively speaking are more prone to nute draining/holding issues.... you have a lot of biomass up top, and if that gets too far off balance, the roots can't keep up... makes for touch, easily triggered defc, issues...
-- any inoculants going in to support the soil herd? In organics, that herd is CRITCAL...
...not surprised, she was hanging by a thread,... annuals want to die after blooming too, afterall! ...certainly root pests/rot will make that unstoppable regardless..
Thanks. VPD is likely an issue here. Today was 5c to 22 c humidity 27-39% ( using the cheap gauge), and it does seem to reflex that with the weather stations at the weather service for around my area. The girls tent the lowest ive seen it is 10.5c, this morning it was 13.3c, then out at 8am, air temp would be under 10c maybe, but they go to the sun which would warm them up a bit, could delay taking them out though.Yes a confusing product, wetting agent and many other things like a N foliar, maybe not a bad thing as you say. I can try other brands like Searles etc, the seasol one has seaweed as a tonic with its wetting agent, searles ferts in its wetting agent, not like stand alone ones, That said love their fulvic and humic acid and other products
I did just a plain water today, and as was not sure what to do, should be dried out tomorrow or next day
Appears more at the bottom and the top and mid layers like a random yellow streak on Liberty at one of her top fans, Durban, poor girl will lose some leaves, being more Sativa maybe more affected by VPD, Bubba Kush seems to have only slight yellow leaves at the base so more normal for her, maybe she is more used to the dry, her genetics?
I give them P with each watering mostly and it random groudn up and a fist of it per plant roughly ( should measure really, doubt be P toxcity as they love it. K maybe ?
I dont have a PH meter but the Searles soil is PH balanced 5-5 -6.2. I am not sure, what i feed the herd in the soil, did add some myc fungi on transplant to main pots. Maybe get some soil tonics for them like molasses?
I have Borax, if that is needed, and I would give them as much as you advise. Not sure, Boron maybe is in the GoGo juice, only 1%
I even bought Canna Bio Flores, was going to wing it with hadrware nutes as i had the P and K covered and didnt think i may need the N also, so N would have been lacking.
Flores is 3 N 1 P K 6 1 S
What would be the plan of attack with the weather VPD most likely causing lock out of nutes or stalking
Thansk Wiara , was sad to see the Nim passing, her sister looks rough also, not natural to live after harvest for them, proably not good for bud either to reveg, next time take clones i shall to keep the strain living and collect and breed seed lol in the bush
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not snow, but cold again for the girls 10.5c (50F approx). I rushed out in the wee hours of the morning to put my yard clothes around their pots. I think VPD, Waira could be at play as you said, as Bubba isnt as bad as the other girls, due to dense foliage covering her pot or being pure indica she can take low temps and such, with the poor other girls wioth their Sativa genesplan of attack not sure, i have to get a meter to get the PH, though searles soil is supposed to be PH adjusted to certain range
Anyway i got a cheap radiator heater for the girls, hope it works, will have to get fans and stuff to get air in though, but can leave tarp up a little to let air through
https://www.kmart.com.au/product/5-fin-oil-heater/2953303 hope not too hot, will do trail runs to test
As for the ladies, yes yellowing is worse on the leaves there were yellow some are off.
I dropped the seeds and struggling to keep it humid for the new cbd girls, plus cbd autos 38% isnt good for them.
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Smokey, any sign of tip burn? It might be worth a try to up the feeds some, a more balanced NPK with the Searles and the PK product you have... BUT right now, organic stuff will be slowest of all to work, so keep that in mind,... a little synthetic isn't going to screw anything up, and it's right-now available...
T is cool enough to impair nutes. but if they warm up soon enough, that shouldn't be to bad...
How much/often does the GoGo get applied? It's got a nice list of nute elements, so regular use should be enough... Borax, maybe1/4tsp/gal, use alone or with a pure humic-fulvic, IF it's determined necessary...
Sativa/Haze's are notorious for being more bitchy about nutes for sure generally speaking,...
...pH in soil is subject to many altering factors, the buffering built into it may not be enough, often isn't....
It's low RH%, but not critically so, especially at that T range... look at the VPD chart in reference,.. if pots are drying well enough, they are transpiring OK during light hours; stomata tend to close at night because photosynthesis is halted, no need for CO2 just then, and so transpiration is running very low...
T is cool enough to impair nutes. but if they warm up soon enough, that shouldn't be to bad...
How much/often does the GoGo get applied? It's got a nice list of nute elements, so regular use should be enough... Borax, maybe1/4tsp/gal, use alone or with a pure humic-fulvic, IF it's determined necessary...
Sativa/Haze's are notorious for being more bitchy about nutes for sure generally speaking,...
...pH in soil is subject to many altering factors, the buffering built into it may not be enough, often isn't....
It's low RH%, but not critically so, especially at that T range... look at the VPD chart in reference,.. if pots are drying well enough, they are transpiring OK during light hours; stomata tend to close at night because photosynthesis is halted, no need for CO2 just then, and so transpiration is running very low...
Get a bloody soil ph meter mate .
Thanks Hecno mate lol true i need one, i am researching to find a good one for good value
Thanks Waira mate. Very very slight tip burn on LH, BBK, SLH DP, may be normal even, of course dead yellow leaves tip burn on them as they die off.
All i have for syntheic is powerfed N vales are high 14 and lowest is N 9.5 on the purple bottle. I did see a spray read made powerfeed, in a spray bottle with N of 3 P 0.4 and K1,8. Also have syntetic Canna 13/14 PK only.
My plan was to use Gogo (1 N value) with P and K from Potash and Phosporus. I can meter the potash and maybe using it each watering could have been excessive though i used small amounts, lol i think anyway, as for Gogo about once a week. Its good stuff GB put me onto it.
Phosphorus i give the girls each water ( a fist full) fast/slow release
Potash, that i dont know it would be slow i guess.
Searles 5in1 N is pretty high, but is good early flower to use then go to Gogo, was the plan at the time lol
Liberty is a bit tip burnt , not all over though, very very fine
SLH
none really except yellow leaves
Borax, i try this or not Waira? Thanks again, for tonight i have rugs for the girls to sit on lol so nice and plush
some yellow blotches on LH also
Powerfeed, only one with low N i can see, i think these are synthetic
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similar to the gogo juice bit more N
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Mate, I feel for you, such lovely huge plants and now the stress of the yellowing leaves.... you have some great info from @Waira and @hecno
As you well know, I'm no expert, but this is what I would do....
feed them as normal one more time, then take the first 250ml of run off and measure the EC and pH. If the EC is higher than what went in, then I'd flush them for a couple of days, checking the run off EC until it drops below what you were feeding them.
If the pH of the run off is off, then pH adjust the plain water flush to push the soil pH in the right direction. I had to make up a Molar solution of Bicarb (ie so no more bicarb can be dissolved in it). Be prepared for more yellowing though as the plant 's not getting the full nutes she's after.
Once the EC's where you want it, resume normal feeds.
BUT to be honest Smokey, it looks to me like these are old leaves that have served their purpose. All the action is gonna be higher up, so having the plant waste it's energy on what's happening down below will not serve any purpose....cut them off and fuggedabowdit!
Fuck its been cold on the GC these last few days, so good job you got a heater in. Are you insulating them from the cold floor? Also be sure to check your feed temps.... I had a shock when I spotted my water was at 14°C just as I was about to feed them the other day..... I had to bring it upto 21°C using a couple of wine bottles filled with hot water.
I use the Willy Weather app, it's reasonably accurate... much better than the Apple weather app here I find.
Anyway Bro, hope you have a good one... I reckon you're doing well, so keep it up!
As you well know, I'm no expert, but this is what I would do....
feed them as normal one more time, then take the first 250ml of run off and measure the EC and pH. If the EC is higher than what went in, then I'd flush them for a couple of days, checking the run off EC until it drops below what you were feeding them.
If the pH of the run off is off, then pH adjust the plain water flush to push the soil pH in the right direction. I had to make up a Molar solution of Bicarb (ie so no more bicarb can be dissolved in it). Be prepared for more yellowing though as the plant 's not getting the full nutes she's after.
Once the EC's where you want it, resume normal feeds.
BUT to be honest Smokey, it looks to me like these are old leaves that have served their purpose. All the action is gonna be higher up, so having the plant waste it's energy on what's happening down below will not serve any purpose....cut them off and fuggedabowdit!
Fuck its been cold on the GC these last few days, so good job you got a heater in. Are you insulating them from the cold floor? Also be sure to check your feed temps.... I had a shock when I spotted my water was at 14°C just as I was about to feed them the other day..... I had to bring it upto 21°C using a couple of wine bottles filled with hot water.
I use the Willy Weather app, it's reasonably accurate... much better than the Apple weather app here I find.
Anyway Bro, hope you have a good one... I reckon you're doing well, so keep it up!
Hey Tee, Thanks Bro, is rather sad to see them like this, but once we get it right, hope all smooth sailing again to the end.
That seems a good idea, i was looking at the cheapest ph meter at the hydro, most of them are over 100 except one its more hydro , so will suit the run off test and it may do EC also not sure. Whats a good EC value T for go for?
Yes i have been taking a few of the yellow leaves off when they appear weak enough to just flick off. Upside i guess SLH she was pretty leafy, true just taking the excess energy that could go into flower.
I know, still get a winter here i feel, but days are great though. I fill up from the hose, so i leave it more in the sun so its a bit less cold for the girls. Fuck that is cold for the water, no wonder it felt cold watering the non canna plants lol. I havent got the heater yet, i was shocked kmart had sold out on that nice oil heater. I may have to resort to gumtree. Poor girls are on the cement with my shirts around the pots and a wool rug around BBKush. I have made sure i sealed it more up this time, yet still leave a small gap for air to come in. I will have to look into a intake and outake fans when they are in flower (near the end) to take risk of mold away
Thanks Bro, will check out Willy Weather, and cheers for the help
This is why my stoned ramblings are of no use to you mate.... I use Coco... so flushing and checking EC is easy cos it's an inert medium. Soil on the other hand has a nute content, so measuring the run off EC isn't as simple. I wouldn't know what a good EC to go for as each plant will demand different levels of nutrient depending on the growth stage.
Where run off EC measurements will help is when you look back at your readings and see the run off EC rise... that will tell you if the plant is not taking up nutrient and you're getting issues.
If your run off EC stays stable, all is well, and if it's dropping, maybe you need to increase your nute strength.
Pop into Bunnings, they've got some half sized oil heaters quite cheap!
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